HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Anaheim Ducks
Notices

Roster/Trade/Etc Discussion Part V

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-10-2013, 11:16 AM
  #176
Professor John Frink
Registered User
 
Professor John Frink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 2,677
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Professor John Frink
You are being unrealistic if you think a sign and trade is even a possibility. They just don't happen anymore. Especially when involving a UFA.

As far as assets go. I would expect a 1st and a prospect in return for a soon to be UFA Perry. If Gaustad gets a 1st from Nashville, Perry is certainly worth an extra prospect.

Of course all of this is moot. Even if Perry doesn't want to stay in Anaheim and tells Murray so it is almost impossible to deal Perry with the way this team is performing. Would take giant thrown chair across a womans back balls to trade Perry when your team is the 2nd best team in the league.

Professor John Frink is online now  
Old
03-10-2013, 12:37 PM
  #177
Tyler Durden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,442
vCash: 500
Just a couple questions and speculation about the Ducks goalie situation next season, if Fasth keeps playing the way he plays this season, do you think the Ducks will think of trading Hiller? Maybe as we have seen it before and before Fasth will steal the # 1 spot from Hiller in the playoffs? All it takes is for Hiller to have one bad game in the playoffs and Fasth to come in and steal the show just like Schneider did from Luongo last year.

If that happens I can see Hiller being dealt in the off season on Draft Day. I believe Fasth will be the Ducks starting netminder next season and will grow into an elite goaltender in the NHL. I told my buddy after Fasth went 3-0 this season that I can see this guy being the next Lundqvist.

Tyler Durden is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 12:49 PM
  #178
getzlaffan04
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 62
vCash: 500
I'd take mika zbinejad and a 1st or 2nd from Ottawa if we decide to deal perry.

getzlaffan04 is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 01:09 PM
  #179
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
You are being unrealistic if you think a sign and trade is even a possibility. They just don't happen anymore. Especially when involving a UFA.
Under the old CBA. We'll see if that still holds true under the new one, but I don't think it will.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 01:51 PM
  #180
caliamad
Registered User
 
caliamad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,632
vCash: 500
Either way ducks should be looking to add not subtract. I'm perfectly fine with letting perry walk as Ufa if it means we add and get a legitimate shot at cup.

Wrt sign and trade. Think it holds less leverage than nba because 5 vs 6 years is big compared to 7 vs 8. Getzalf last year in his deal has a big drop off too.

caliamad is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 02:00 PM
  #181
Ducks DVM
Moderator
There is no grunion
 
Ducks DVM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,226
vCash: 500
I think the week coming up with the Sharks, Detroit x 2, Chicago x 2 will decide it. If we dominate those games and look like a legit cup contender he stays regardless. If we don't, and he's not signing, he gets traded.

I also think the people calling for the sign and trade are off base. This isn't the NBA where that sign and trade can net an extra 20M+ over 5 years, for a type of person that is all about ME, in a sport where you only need 3 real players on a team to win. Perry at most is looking at an extra 8-10 over 8 years, and hockey requires an actual team to win. And Perry comes across as wanting a situation rather than JUST money, I don't think he'd want to weaken his new team. He owes the Ducks nothing.

Ducks DVM is online now  
Old
03-10-2013, 03:21 PM
  #182
Paul4587
Registered User
 
Paul4587's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 13,871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
Just a couple questions and speculation about the Ducks goalie situation next season, if Fasth keeps playing the way he plays this season, do you think the Ducks will think of trading Hiller? Maybe as we have seen it before and before Fasth will steal the # 1 spot from Hiller in the playoffs? All it takes is for Hiller to have one bad game in the playoffs and Fasth to come in and steal the show just like Schneider did from Luongo last year.

If that happens I can see Hiller being dealt in the off season on Draft Day. I believe Fasth will be the Ducks starting netminder next season and will grow into an elite goaltender in the NHL. I told my buddy after Fasth went 3-0 this season that I can see this guy being the next Lundqvist.
I would hope they don't trade Hiller based off one good season from Fasth. There have been way too many one year wonders in net to assume that Fasth can handle a starting role based off him winning the role in a shortened season. I could only see it happening if Fasth dominates in the playoffs.

Paul4587 is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 03:32 PM
  #183
Vipers31
Moderator
Advanced Stagnostic
 
Vipers31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bergisch Gladbach
Country: Germany
Posts: 10,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
I think the week coming up with the Sharks, Detroit x 2, Chicago x 2 will decide it. If we dominate those games and look like a legit cup contender he stays regardless. If we don't, and he's not signing, he gets traded.

I also think the people calling for the sign and trade are off base. This isn't the NBA where that sign and trade can net an extra 20M+ over 5 years, for a type of person that is all about ME, in a sport where you only need 3 real players on a team to win. Perry at most is looking at an extra 8-10 over 8 years, and hockey requires an actual team to win. And Perry comes across as wanting a situation rather than JUST money, I don't think he'd want to weaken his new team. He owes the Ducks nothing.
Agreed on both accounts. Although I'd guess we'll look to be quite in the grey-ish area over that span and will have few answers for the time being.

Vipers31 is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 04:14 PM
  #184
Gibsons Finest
Beast
 
Gibsons Finest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Saskatoon/Brandon
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
You are being unrealistic if you think a sign and trade is even a possibility. They just don't happen anymore. Especially when involving a UFA.
New CBA, new rules. The NHL's new UFA rules are a lot more similar to the NBA's now, and sign-and-trades happen regularly there, although that also has to do with their cap. I'm interested to see what will happen and how value will be established, but it's something I'm sure top-flight UFAs will push for.

Gibsons Finest is online now  
Old
03-10-2013, 05:18 PM
  #185
Carelton CA
Registered User
 
Carelton CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinegar Strokes View Post
1st + DSP or Wagner for Ribeiro, 2nd + someone meh for Reghr.

Might not get it done, but it's what I'd like to see.

PGP
RRS
WKC
BB etem/Maroon/staubitz.

Fowler-Reghr
Beauch-Souray
Sbisa-Allen/LJ

We have the prospect depth. Holland,Rakell,Karlsson all make Wagner easily replaceable. DSP is tough to lose because his skill set is unique, but I think with our wing depth we can do it.

This gives us 4 legit lines and 3 legit pairings IMO, with enough skill and snarl to compete with anyone. I wish there was a center available who was skilled and had snarl, but that's just not available.
Wait? DSP's skill set is Unique and Wagner is easily replaceable? I have it the other way around, a strong defensive center with offensive upside at +10 or a up and down wing at -20.

Carelton CA is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 05:30 PM
  #186
Paul4587
Registered User
 
Paul4587's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 13,871
vCash: 500
You can't actually be using +/- to evaluate a players skill set.

DSP definitely brings more to the table if they both reach their potential. I like Wagner and think he's done well in the AHL this year but DSP brings a more unique skillset. Wagner has been great defensively but it would be nice if he started showing a bit more offensively - his numbers in college last season were great but they haven't translated to the next level yet.

Paul4587 is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 09:05 PM
  #187
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
I think the week coming up with the Sharks, Detroit x 2, Chicago x 2 will decide it. If we dominate those games and look like a legit cup contender he stays regardless. If we don't, and he's not signing, he gets traded.

I also think the people calling for the sign and trade are off base. This isn't the NBA where that sign and trade can net an extra 20M+ over 5 years, for a type of person that is all about ME, in a sport where you only need 3 real players on a team to win. Perry at most is looking at an extra 8-10 over 8 years, and hockey requires an actual team to win. And Perry comes across as wanting a situation rather than JUST money, I don't think he'd want to weaken his new team. He owes the Ducks nothing.
Where are you getting this 'he doesn't want to weaken his team'. The trade itself does that no matter what. It is up to the GM not to damage his team beyond the value of what he's getting in return, not the player. That isn't selfishness, that is expecting you to do your job. This is also a complete exaggeration seeing as we don't even know what a sign and trade with the extra year would actually add.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 09:07 PM
  #188
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carelton CA View Post
Wait? DSP's skill set is Unique and Wagner is easily replaceable? I have it the other way around, a strong defensive center with offensive upside at +10 or a up and down wing at -20.
Plus/minus is meant as a possession stat, not a defensive stat.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 09:52 PM
  #189
bumperkisser
Registered User
 
bumperkisser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,771
vCash: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Where are you getting this 'he doesn't want to weaken his team'. The trade itself does that no matter what. It is up to the GM not to damage his team beyond the value of what he's getting in return, not the player. That isn't selfishness, that is expecting you to do your job. This is also a complete exaggeration seeing as we don't even know what a sign and trade with the extra year would actually add.
except if he ACCEPTS a sign and trade. its common sense that then Murray can/should ask for more coming back. hence HURTING his new team. he can just negotiate himself with the new team if he knows for sure he wants to sign there.

bumperkisser is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 10:01 PM
  #190
Gibsons Finest
Beast
 
Gibsons Finest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Saskatoon/Brandon
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
except if he ACCEPTS a sign and trade. its common sense that then Murray can/should ask for more coming back. hence HURTING his new team. he can just negotiate himself with the new team if he knows for sure he wants to sign there.
So, what you're saying is, you think Perry would rather sign outright with a new team than negotiate a sign-and-trade? I highly disagree, he'd be giving up a pretty good amount of money to do that.

Gibsons Finest is online now  
Old
03-10-2013, 10:06 PM
  #191
bumperkisser
Registered User
 
bumperkisser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,771
vCash: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
So, what you're saying is, you think Perry would rather sign outright with a new team than negotiate a sign-and-trade? I highly disagree, he'd be giving up a pretty good amount of money to do that.
why would he be giving up any amount of money? he's allowed to sign with the new team for 8 years as long as we trade him by the deadline..

this scenario is all saying if we trade him to the team that he WANTS to go to

bumperkisser is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 10:13 PM
  #192
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
except if he ACCEPTS a sign and trade. its common sense that then Murray can/should ask for more coming back. hence HURTING his new team. he can just negotiate himself with the new team if he knows for sure he wants to sign there.
If it's futures, it isn't hurting the team. That's HF talk. They're also getting the extra year. That's what they'd be paying for. If Perry can only sign a seven year deal, then that hurts his team, too. There is give and take.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 10:20 PM
  #193
Gibsons Finest
Beast
 
Gibsons Finest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Saskatoon/Brandon
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
why would he be giving up any amount of money? he's allowed to sign with the new team for 8 years as long as we trade him by the deadline..

this scenario is all saying if we trade him to the team that he WANTS to go to
Oh, I thought you were talking about any scenario, not just specifically before the deadline. Only difference there is I imagine it would snag the actual trade itself if Perry wasn't signed. Teams might not want to give up great value for a guy who could bolt at season's end, and Ducks might not trade him unless they get full value for a star winger.

Gibsons Finest is online now  
Old
03-10-2013, 10:25 PM
  #194
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Oh, I thought you were talking about any scenario, not just specifically before the deadline. Only difference there is I imagine it would snag the actual trade itself if Perry wasn't signed. Teams might not want to give up great value for a guy who could bolt at season's end, and Ducks might not trade him unless they get full value for a star winger.
I doubt that their line would be full value. It's more likely that they may not trade him for a rental package.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 10:32 PM
  #195
Gibsons Finest
Beast
 
Gibsons Finest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Saskatoon/Brandon
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I doubt that their line would be full value. It's more likely that they may not trade him for a rental package.
They could take that line, as there's a lot of reasons to keep Perry for the stretch run. But, yes, they'd likely just want a very good package, more than a rental would go for.

Gibsons Finest is online now  
Old
03-10-2013, 11:07 PM
  #196
Ducks DVM
Moderator
There is no grunion
 
Ducks DVM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Where are you getting this 'he doesn't want to weaken his team'. The trade itself does that no matter what. It is up to the GM not to damage his team beyond the value of what he's getting in return, not the player. That isn't selfishness, that is expecting you to do your job. This is also a complete exaggeration seeing as we don't even know what a sign and trade with the extra year would actually add.
If it adds ANYTHING, it weakens that team. There's no way that he'd get less than a prospect, roster player, and a 1st as a rental. If there's no substantial increase in that return for a sign and trade, then there's absolutely no reason for the Ducks to limit themselves to trading him to that team - 15-20 other teams will pony up a typical rental return for him. You can't have this both ways. Either he has no say in where he's going because everyone is offering the same quality package, or he goes where where he wants because that team offers a better package - which WILL further weaken that team compared to if he signs as a free agent. Common sense fail.

Ducks DVM is online now  
Old
03-10-2013, 11:12 PM
  #197
Vinegar Strokes
Grumkin
 
Vinegar Strokes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort Collins
Country: United States
Posts: 5,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carelton CA View Post
Wait? DSP's skill set is Unique and Wagner is easily replaceable? I have it the other way around, a strong defensive center with offensive upside at +10 or a up and down wing at -20.
Other people have already addressed this, but yes, DSP definitely has the more unique skill set. Not to mention we already have Rakell and Karlsson as 2 way centers, and they have a higher upside.

Vinegar Strokes is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 11:58 PM
  #198
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
If it adds ANYTHING, it weakens that team. There's no way that he'd get less than a prospect, roster player, and a 1st as a rental. If there's no substantial increase in that return for a sign and trade, then there's absolutely no reason for the Ducks to limit themselves to trading him to that team - 15-20 other teams will pony up a typical rental return for him. You can't have this both ways. Either he has no say in where he's going because everyone is offering the same quality package, or he goes where where he wants because that team offers a better package - which WILL further weaken that team compared to if he signs as a free agent. Common sense fail.
You are arguing at cross purposes.

Exit Dose is offline  
Old
03-11-2013, 12:12 AM
  #199
Ducks DVM
Moderator
There is no grunion
 
Ducks DVM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
You are arguing at cross purposes.
You're the one implying Perry will control his destination but not cause a larger loss to the team he wants to go to by doing so, not me.

Edit - also, it's impossible for only one of two people to be arguing at cross purposes. If you feel WE are doing that then explain yourself.


Last edited by Ducks DVM: 03-11-2013 at 12:32 AM.
Ducks DVM is online now  
Old
03-11-2013, 01:13 AM
  #200
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
You're the one implying Perry will control his destination but not cause a larger loss to the team he wants to go to by doing so, not me.

Edit - also, it's impossible for only one of two people to be arguing at cross purposes. If you feel WE are doing that then explain yourself.
You are not asking me questions about what my position is, you are just supplying the most convenient argument and arguing against that. You also seem to be conflating my position with BRG's. If you need a point explained further, then ask before offering up a counter argument.

If Perry wants to head to FA or doesn't care about a seven year deal, then I don't think a sign-and-trade will make a difference. We will get the same returns that Kovalchuk and Hossa received, both in makeup and quality.

I think if Murray doesn't want the typical garbage packages - sweetened with picks - that come with these type of trades, and the circumstances are favorable(ie. Perry has clear destination(s), wants eight years, and the receiving team wants the same), then those things get factored into his demands. I am assuming that at minimum that can be used to make a qualitative difference in the return under those circumstances. In other words, no questionable prospects, the roster player isn't just a down on their luck warm body. It may just mean an extra pick. I don't know what the answer is till we actually see one of these situations play out.

The only way that I can see a core player coming our way, what BRG is lobbying for, is if it's necessary for that team to fit Perry in, it may even call for an addition on our side.

Perry is not owed any favors by us. We may owe him eight years if we keep him, but we don't owe him that if he's leaving. We do not owe the team that wants him the eighth year. If we want we can hold onto him and deprive them of that. I don't think it's major leverage, but it is enough to change what we are capable of demanding.

This isn't even my idea, it's what Dreger put forth on NHL Tonight a few days back.

Exit Dose is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:07 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.