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Alain Vigneault/coaching discussion thread - Part 4

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Old
03-10-2013, 10:15 PM
  #101
Finkle is Einhorn
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Originally Posted by petrishriekandgo View Post
That's fair to a point... and certainly other coaches are dealing with the same issues. I dunno, I just don't buy that the major issues this team have are AV's doing.
Obviously none of us know for certain why this team is having the issues it is. However, with how the Canucks dominated in '10-'11, it's a fair guess to posit that their system has been turned inside and out and scrutinized to no end by other teams in the intervening years. Everyone has the Canucks' playbook now, and AV and co. haven't done much at all to address it.

To go from having the most lethal powerplay in the league to looking positively impotent can't be explained away by the loss of Ehrhoff.

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03-10-2013, 10:20 PM
  #102
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bye bye a.v but when?

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Old
03-10-2013, 10:22 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Finkle is Einhorn View Post
Obviously none of us know for certain why this team is having the issues it is. However, with how the Canucks dominated in '10-'11, it's a fair guess to posit that their system has been turned inside and out and scrutinized to no end by other teams in the intervening years. Everyone has the Canucks' playbook now, and AV and co. haven't done much at all to address it.

To go from having the most lethal powerplay in the league to looking positively impotent can't be explained away by the loss of Ehrhoff.
Really hard to argue that especially in regards to the Canucks (not so) special teams. Adjustments have always been tough to come by on this team... talent, grit and speed always got them back into games... not system adjustments.

Maybe, maybe it is time... not there just yet, but that point is REALLY hard to ignore.

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03-10-2013, 10:30 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by petrishriekandgo View Post
One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is practice time... there's barely any this season, especially with the new CBA rules for time off etc. How can AV affect positive change/habits/systems with barely any practice time?

I think that's really impacting this team (obviously).
Care to explain how Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto are doing so well then? Montreal and Toronto were disasters last season and while the Leaf have a ways to go, they have certainly improved. Montreal is downright dominating, with only Boston nipping at their heels. Meanwhile, Ottawa is icing an AHL squad and somehow maintaining relevance.

Lack of practice a poor excuse for a roster this talented. Other teams have sucked it up. If we cannot, then we have no business making the playoffs.

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03-10-2013, 10:34 PM
  #105
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I don't think AV's a bad coach, but I do think that he's lost his team. I, for one, would like to see the entire coaching staff replaced.

Unfortunately, I don't know who would fit the bill. But that's not really my job to decide. I just hope we get to see this team at its full potential (or at least close to it)

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03-10-2013, 10:35 PM
  #106
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hire new coaches. might as well throw in the towel for this season. because the way the nucks are playing are really really terrible. new coaches in. get comfortable with the guys and start fresh next yr.

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03-10-2013, 11:02 PM
  #107
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I actually thought it was hilarious the boys had a players-only meeting. They're already the ones doing all the motivating and leading. What more could they really do?

Fire AV.

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Old
03-10-2013, 11:05 PM
  #108
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this team needs a new coach for the simple reason that it will force all the players to find their niche again. a new coach isn't going to have the same whipping boys and favorites. he'll (hopefully) look at the team as it is now and make decisions without factoring in personal histories and past performances.

a reset is a very good thing for putting all the players back on a level playing field and getting them to work to impress again.

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03-10-2013, 11:08 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by mrbitterguy View Post
this team needs a new coach for the simple reason that it will force all the players to find their niche again. a new coach isn't going to have the same whipping boys and favorites. he'll (hopefully) look at the team as it is now and make decisions without factoring in personal histories and past performances.

a reset is a very good thing for putting all the players back on a level playing field and getting them to work to impress again.
Exactly. We should appreciate AV for what he's done, especially in 2006 and 2008-2010. But we should also let him go. The whole team is in a rut, and it's too hard to change personnel.

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03-10-2013, 11:42 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by KDizzle View Post
I don't think AV's a bad coach, but I do think that he's lost his team. I, for one, would like to see the entire coaching staff replaced.
Even more scary is that I've seen a few signs that the team is still trying to do what he's asking of them. I don't actually know if he's lost his team, or if he's just lost his way. The league has changed, or at least changed how they play us. And he has no answer for it. I think he's just found his limitations, and the team is following him blindly, even though they look as lost as he does.



As for his development of players, I really think he only develops those 2 way, 3rd line type guys that exceed expectations (Burrows, Kesler, Hansen etc). I don't give him much credit for the Sedins, as their own work ethic and commitment was a huge part of their development. The way they play is so unique to them that there's no way you can credit AV. He simply counts his blessings that he has them, and tries to use them effectively.
With skill type players, he seems to pin them to defensive roles, and bench them if they can't do it. They then either accept that role, or get traded/waived/let go.

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Old
03-10-2013, 11:55 PM
  #111
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FUN FACT


- Jordan Schroeder (5 total points) has spent more time on the power-play this season than Mason Raymond, Jannik Hansen, Zack Kassian and Chris Higgins

- All of those players have more goals and more points than Schroeder. Higgins doesn't even have a quarter the amount of time on the PP but 5 more goals.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:00 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by GJB View Post
FUN FACT


- Jordan Schroeder (5 total points) has spent more time on the power-play this season than Mason Raymond, Jannik Hansen, Zack Kassian and Chris Higgins

- All of those players have more goals and more points than Schroeder. Higgins doesn't even have a quarter the amount of time on the PP but 5 more goals.
Man that makes all the posters that got mad at AV for not using Schroeder on the PP look silly then He is a center, so obviously he will get more PP time, and has looked good on the second unit, On the point no, but was worth a try.

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03-11-2013, 12:06 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
Man that makes all the posters that got mad at AV for not using Schroeder on the PP look silly then He is a center, so obviously he will get more PP time, and has looked good on the second unit, On the point no, but was worth a try.
Yeah sure, worth the try for one, two, maybe three games... but still? Every game now? What is it 7 games without a ppg now..

For those keeping a record: I officially have switched camps - FIRE AV!!!

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:11 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Steve Bennett View Post
Yeah sure, worth the try for one, two, maybe three games... but still? Every game now? What is it 7 games without a ppg now..

For those keeping a record: I officially have switched camps - FIRE AV!!!
I thought it was two games for him on the point, It could be three, but if its more then this losing slump is getting to my head. Can someone who remembers tell me???

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:15 AM
  #115
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Why not coach the hell out of Tanev on his shot and stick him on the pp - the guy has great hockey sense and crisp passing and good judgement. If he could ever settle down his shot I'd love him out there with Edler on the top unit with the Sedins and Kass. Throw Burr, Hansen and Raymond/Higgins on the second unit with Garr and Hamhuis manning the point.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:19 AM
  #116
Finkle is Einhorn
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Originally Posted by Steve Bennett View Post
Yeah sure, worth the try for one, two, maybe three games... but still? Every game now? What is it 7 games without a ppg now..

For those keeping a record: I officially have switched camps - FIRE AV!!!
They're very rapidly approaching a full game's worth of man advantage time without a goal. It's pretty clear that the power play was built with Kesler as the trigger man, and when he's out or injured as to not effectively take the shot, it absolutely falls apart.

It's a troublesome trend with this team. Kesler's out, and they don't have an answer. Bieksa goes down and they juggle the D pairs to the end of a Keystone Cops routine.

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03-11-2013, 12:34 AM
  #117
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Some guy wrote this in the main forum discussion against the Canucks:

"I don't see every Canuck game, but from the ones I've caught I feel they really haven't been themselves since around late February of last season. They were handily beating teams through December and looked very good. After late February/early March, the games started getting much closer. They were visibly struggling at times and were barely beating non-playoff teams that they should have been pulverizing. They were not good going into the playoffs, and without Daniel they were completely unable to flip the switch. It seems to have carried over into this year.

From a perspective of a fan of another team, IMO it is more of an attitude issue than anything else. That confidence/swagger they had that made them so difficult to play has been missing for a while."

I never thought of it that way, maybe the poster is correct though...

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03-11-2013, 12:35 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GJB View Post
FUN FACT


- Jordan Schroeder (5 total points) has spent more time on the power-play this season than Mason Raymond, Jannik Hansen, Zack Kassian and Chris Higgins

- All of those players have more goals and more points than Schroeder. Higgins doesn't even have a quarter the amount of time on the PP but 5 more goals.
Schroeder is being used on the point, which isn't what he's built for. He need to be on the half-wall.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:56 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Steve Bennett View Post
I never thought of it that way, maybe the poster is correct though...
It's been mentioned. In the Canucks fan lexicon, it would be phrased, "Since the Boston game..."

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:38 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by KDizzle View Post
I don't think AV's a bad coach, but I do think that he's lost his team. I, for one, would like to see the entire coaching staff replaced.

Unfortunately, I don't know who would fit the bill. But that's not really my job to decide. I just hope we get to see this team at its full potential (or at least close to it)
Agree; I would hate for the Sedins' prime - for however long it lasts - to be wasted while the team's potential never fully comes to the fore.

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:01 AM
  #121
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Alright, after losing the NW Division lead for the 1st time in who knows how long, you guys win. I've finally sided with the majority that we fire Allain Vigneault. But only under these circumstances.

1) It's during the offseason
2) Nothing miraculous happens in the playoffs
3) Luongo/Schneider are dealt with

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:10 AM
  #122
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jon cooper

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:11 AM
  #123
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Some comments from after the loss that I found illuminating:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Sedin
"It sounds ridiculous, but that is about urgency, that’s about getting pucks deep, and getting speed to get behind them," Daniel said. "If you don’t get any speed, it’s impossible. We had one guy in on the forecheck, of course nothing was going to happen.

"We have to get all three guys in there.
That’s what happens when you’re playing like we are right now. We’re standing still too much. We have to get speed, get going and get every guy contributing."
Long pass for the tip ("ping pong hockey") becoming ineffective?


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Booth
"I was thinking about LA last year and they went through a stretch where they weren’t playing too well. They didn’t even know if they were making the playoffs. Then, they get on a roll, guys start playing and then they have an identity. I think we have to get an identity.

"Each line needs to get a different role and we all need to embrace those roles."
Perhaps the one-size-fits-all down-low cycle isn't working anymore?

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:38 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by YouCantYandleThis View Post
Do you guys think that AV is a good at developing young players?

I think he's massively over-rated in that regard, with alot of props that should be going to our farm team coaches, and our skills coaches.

Alain Vigneault has done nothing over his time here but shatter a young kids confidence and give him very little help in succeeding.
Whose confidence did he shatter?
Hodgson?....That kids got plenty of confidence, demanding ice time and all.

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:46 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
Some comments from after the loss that I found illuminating:



Long pass for the tip ("ping pong hockey") becoming ineffective?




Perhaps the one-size-fits-all down-low cycle isn't working anymore?
Those are very interesting comments in light of some of the more detailed posts by Tiranis et al. in the last AV thread.

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