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ATD 2013 - Draft Thread VI

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Old
03-10-2013, 03:34 PM
  #26
Sturminator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmm View Post
When I drafted Kurtenbach at 536 for my 4th/checking line last year the comments were very negative. Stuff like he's an MLD player.
Well, honestly, he's a pretty limited player besides his elite face punching ability. Well...that and the fact that he rocked those sweet old nucks jerseys.


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03-10-2013, 03:35 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Well, honestly, he's a pretty limited player besides his elite face punching ability. Well...that and the fact that he rocked those sweet old nucks jerseys.



Our first ever jerseys were awesome, then it was all downhill from there.

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03-10-2013, 03:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
So, at home, you're planning to play the Otto line against Lindros as much as you can, and matching the top lines? I guess I would do the same in your situation. BTW, you definitely have the best roster page of the draft. Very beautiful graphic work.
That's one way of doing it, although the one thing you can definitely count on is old frenemies Otto and Messier getting acquainted on special teams.

And thank you! I work in advertising, so it's always nice to hear stuff like that!

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Old
03-10-2013, 03:48 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Well, honestly, he's a pretty limited player besides his elite face punching ability. Well...that and the fact that he rocked those sweet old nucks jerseys.

Of course, the major thing that separates him from O'Reilley, Clark, Secord and others who will undoubtably drafted to fill the same role is the fact that he's a centre. I guess the onus will be on EB to prove that he won't get majorly exposed skating around against faster 4th line centres, as opposed to just grinding up and down the boards.

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03-10-2013, 05:10 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
Of course, the major thing that separates him from O'Reilley, Clark, Secord and others who will undoubtably drafted to fill the same role is the fact that he's a centre. I guess the onus will be on EB to prove that he won't get majorly exposed skating around against faster 4th line centres, as opposed to just grinding up and down the boards.
I think, alongside Bridgman, we have assemble two-third of 4th line that brings tons of intangibles to our team. I fully understand that Kurtenbach was far from the most talented player available, but he brings hard working, leadership, fighting ability. He's a player that teammates follow to war, someone that leads by example. Think perhaps of Brandan Prust for the Montreal Canadiens right now. He possess the work ethic and the dedication that we are craving for this club, and this, we believe, will rub on his teammate. I don't believe Kurtenbach's speed will be a detriment to the abilities we want to get from him at this level. We still have a right winger to select to complete the line, we will try our best to select someone that will make this line a cohesive one, and a dangerous one in their own right.


I wish Marty Walsh would of still been on the board, but we are happy with the selection of Kurtenbach.

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03-10-2013, 05:32 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I think, alongside Bridgman, we have assemble two-third of 4th line that brings tons of intangibles to our team. I fully understand that Kurtenbach was far from the most talented player available, but he brings hard working, leadership, fighting ability. He's a player that teammates follow to war, someone that leads by example. Think perhaps of Brandan Prust for the Montreal Canadiens right now. He possess the work ethic and the dedication that we are craving for this club, and this, we believe, will rub on his teammate. I don't believe Kurtenbach's speed will be a detriment to the abilities we want to get from him at this level. We still have a right winger to select to complete the line, we will try our best to select someone that will make this line a cohesive one, and a dangerous one in their own right.


I wish Marty Walsh would of still been on the board, but we are happy with the selection of Kurtenbach.
The best quality to have on your fourth line is a fine arsenal of intangibles, so the players can play in virtually any situation! Bridgman/Kurtenbach is a very nice start to a fourth line. It shouldn't be about selecting the BPA per se, but the best one that possesses a very versatile group of abilities. I think Kurtenbach is definitely ATD material.

Prust is an excellent example, and one of the unsung heroes of that hockey team.

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03-10-2013, 07:43 PM
  #32
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Who is on the clock

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:47 PM
  #33
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Hershey drafts Fred Lake, the 'point' defenseman who replaced a retiring Harvey Pulford in 1909, immediately helping Ottawa win two Stanley Cup championships (1909, 1911), re-united for four years with Hamby Shore at coverpoint, the two having played together back in Manitoba earlier in their careers. Lake was rough, gave big hits, worked hard, skated fast with a great shot. Both Lake and Shore had been forwards before (as had been all the Ottawa players, even goalie Lesueur, on a squad renowned for its puck handling), and each could surge on transition, though Shore played up ice more at coverpoint and appears to have rushed a lot more often. Significantly, Fred Lake had twice been a 1st team all-star in the IHL, in 1906 and 1907, the first pro league with all-time greats Lalonde, Taylor, Hall, Pitre, Stuart, and Tommy Smith. If Lake had been a forward in those days, as suspected, then it's even more impressive that he was twice a 1st team all star there given the level of competition! (Lake was almost certainly a winger when playing for Pittsburgh in 1903 and winning the championship against Houghton). After the IHL, he went to the WPHL, where he was thrown out of the league after only three games for "rough play". The very next season (1909) he was a 1st team all-star once again, with the cup-winning Senators in the ECAHA, 3rd in scoring among defensemen in the league. The year after he won his second Stanley Cup, Lake was 5th in NHA scoring among defensemen. He played thirteen seasons and is mentioned numerous times as one of the stars of the teams he played for. He certainly was paid as well as the top couple of players (see below quotes).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa Citizen, Dec 1, 1937
Lake was known as an outstanding player in several other cities where he performed.

A rugged, dependable defence player, the late Fred Lake held down the point position in the hockey lineup of the time. He combined with Fred Taylor and Hamby Shore to give the Ottawa team a defence that was respected by their opponents in the major competition of the time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, March 21, 1911
Fred Lake, the stock point man of the world's champions, is 29 years old and tips the beam at 178 pounds. Lake is a Winnipeg boy and was unfortunate in his first professional game, in losing the sight of his left eye. Lake is better than the average man with the sight of both optics, however, and is without a doubt the greatest point man in the professional game. He has played with Ottawa for three seasons, helping in that time to win two championships. Lake is very fast, and has a great shot, and is, above all, game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa Hockey Legends
Lake's most prominent years came alongside defense partner Hamby Shore. The two first teamed up in Winnipeg in the Manitoba Hockey League before spending 4 years together in Ottawa. Standing tall before goalie Percy Lesueur, the duo of Lake and Shore helped the Senators capture the 1909 and 1911 Stanley Cup!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa Journal, 3/4/1912
Fred Lake gave ***** the finest body-check of the night. ***** sailed through the air like one of the Wright brothers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Toronto World, Dec 1913
The best sight for the eyes of the pro fans was the appearance of Fred Lake, the good Ottawa defenceman. Lake was on the job early and worked like an Indian for the full practice. He will surely land a job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Total Hockey
Fred Lake teamed with Hamby Shore to form a solid defense pairing for Ottawa...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Win, Tie, or Wrangle: The Inside Story of the old Ottawa Senators, 1883-1935
Freddie Lake and Cyclone Taylor made a tough defensive pairing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ottawa Citizen, February 25, 2011
The 1911 season was unique in that it was the first in which the NHA instigated a salary cap, limiting teams to a payroll of $5,000. Sens players Walsh, Fred Lake and xxxxx all took large pay cuts, reducing their salaries from the $1,200 each earned in 1910 to $600 for the subsequent season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Win, Tie, or Wrangle: The Inside Story of the old Ottawa Senators, 1883-1935
The O'Briens were prepared to put up whatever money it took to realize their dream. They launched an open raid on the Ottawa team, aggressively pursuing Taylor, Walsh, Lake, and xxxxx.

Jack Darragh and Hamby Shore earned $1500.00. Fred Lake earned $1350 and Percy LeSueur $995.99.


Last edited by VanIslander: 03-10-2013 at 08:14 PM.
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Old
03-10-2013, 08:38 PM
  #34
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Dawson City rounds out its forwards with the selection of gritty veteran leader Brenden Morrow, LW.

We also round out our hard-checking defense with a Broad Street Bullies mainstay, Andre "Moose" Dupont, D.

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Old
03-10-2013, 09:17 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
Dawson City rounds out its forwards with the selection of gritty veteran leader Brenden Morrow, LW.

We also round out our hard-checking defense with a Broad Street Bullies mainstay, Andre "Moose" Dupont, D.
The idea of a player being a "veteran" in the ATD amuses me. I assume they're all around 28 years old, unless they're Stamkos or something.

That said, I get your point. He brings intelligence, hard work, toughness. The usual things you get out of a good 34 year old.

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03-10-2013, 09:18 PM
  #36
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Also, one of Morrow's "comparables" on Hockey Reference is Milt Schmidt. Someone oughta check that.

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Old
03-10-2013, 09:30 PM
  #37
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Hershey drafts coach Art Ross, the man who chose "Bruins" as Boston's nickname to reflect ..."an untamed animal displaying speed, agility, and cunning", establishing an ethos of hard work and hard play in Boston that remains to this day. "The dour Scot" is the winningest coach in Boston Bruins history, with 361 wins behind the bench during four stints as the Bruins' coach between 1924 and 1945, only twice missing the playoffs. Four times they went to the Stanley Cup finals and won it all in 1939. Ross was selected as NHL coach of the year in 1939, a 2nd team all-star coach the year before and four years later. He led the Bruins to five regular season 1st place finishes in the thirties and "Ultimate Hockey" selected him as best coach of a decade. Ross had a habit of stepping away from coaching and doing more general manager and president duties when times were good, going back behind the bench each time the Bruins began to struggle. He is famous for several innovations including pulling the goalie to ice an extra attacker.



Quote:
it was he who instilled the Bruins' toughness and aggressive play right from the beginning
http://books.google.ca/books?id=4Mzn...um=7&ct=result



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
He was hired to coach the Hamilton Tigers for the 1922–23 season, and adopted new methods in training camp that emphasized physical fitness, including work off the ice. However, the Tigers finished with a record of six wins and eighteen losses, last in the NHL for the third successive year, and Art Ross did not return the next season. His next coaching appointment arose from meeting Boston grocery store magnate Charles Adams during the 1924 Stanley Cup Finals. Before the 1924 season, the NHL awarded Adams an expansion team, which he named the Boston Bruins. He hired Ross as general manager, coach and scout. Ross utilized his many hockey connections throughout Canada and the United States to sign players. Even so, the team started poorly. Early in the first season the University of Toronto hockey team was in Boston for matches against local universities. The team's manager, Conn Smythe, who later owned and managed the Toronto Maple Leafs, said that his team could easily defeat the Bruins—Ross's team had won only two of their first fifteen NHL games. This began a feud between Smythe and Ross which lasted until Ross's death; while mostly confined to newspaper reports, they refused to speak to each other at NHL Board of Governor meetings. The Bruins finished their first season with six wins in thirty games, one of the worst records in the history of the league. Several records were set over the course of the season; the three home wins are tied for the second fewest ever, and an eleven game losing streak from December 8, 1924, until February 17, 1925, set a record for longest losing streak, surpassed in 2004 and now second longest in history. With 17 wins in 36 games the following season, the team greatly improved, and finished one point out of a playoff spot.

In 1926 the Western Hockey League, the other top professional hockey league, was in decline. The Patrick brothers, who controlled the league, offered to sell the remaining five teams for $300,000. Ross realized the potential talent available and convinced Adams to pay the money. As a result, the Bruins acquired the rights to several future Hall of Fame players, the most notable being defender Eddie Shore. Ross signed goaltender Cecil "Tiny" Thompson in 1928, who was with a team in Minnesota, despite never watching him play; Ralph "Cooney" Weiland was also brought over from Minnesota. Art Ross acquired Cy Denneny from Ottawa and made him a player-coach while he assumed the role of team manager. On November 20, 1928, the Bruins moved to a new arena when the Boston Garden opened. The team played the Canadiens who won the match 1–0 in front of 16,000 fans. The players signed by Ross helped the Bruins to improve quickly, and they won the Stanley Cup in 1929. Denneny retired after the Cup win and Ross resumed his role as coach, guiding the team to several league records in the 1929–30 season. The team won 38 of 44 games for an .875 winning percentage, the highest in league history; the five losses tied a record for fewest ever, and the four road losses tied a record for second fewest. The Bruins also only finished one game in a tie, a record for fewest ties in a season since the NHL began recording the record in 1926. One of the longest winning streaks was also set during the season. From December 3, 1929, until January 9, 1930, the team won fourteen games in a row, a record that lasted until 1982 and now tied for third longest, as of October 2010. A home winning streak began the same day and lasted for twenty games, until March 18, 1930, which was tied for the longest of its kind in 1976. In 1930–31, the Bruins again lost only one home game, which equalled their previous record.

In a playoff game against the Montreal Canadiens on March 26, 1931, Ross substituted goaltender Tiny Thompson for a sixth skater in the final minute of play. Although the Bruins lost the game 1–0, Ross became the first coach to replace his goaltender with an extra attacker, a tactic which became widespread practice in hockey. Stepping aside as coach in 1934 to focus on managing the team, Ross hired Frank Patrick as coach with a salary of $10,500, which was high for such a role. However rumours spread during the season that Patrick, a Methodist, was drinking heavily and not being as strict with the players as Ross wanted. After the Bruins lost their playoff series with the Toronto Maple Leafs in the 1936 playoffs, the result of a 8–1 score in the second game, a newspaper claimed that Patrick had been drinking the day of the game and had trouble controlling the team. Several days later, Ross relieved Patrick of his duties and once again assumed the role of coach.

Ross took over an improved team. He had recently signed three players, Milt Schmidt, Bobby Bauer and Woody Dumart, who all grew up together in Kitchener, Ontario, and had them play on the same line, soon nicknamed the Kraut Line in reference to the German heritage of all three. Along with them, Ross had acquired a new goaltender in 1938, Frank Brimsek; after Brimsek earned six shutouts in his first eight games, the Bruins traded away Tiny Thompson to allow Brimsek to play. With these players the Bruins finished first in the league in 1937–38; Ross was named as the second best coach in the league, selected for the end of season All-Star Second Team. The next season the Bruins won 36 of 48 games, and won the Stanley Cup in the playoffs; Ross was named to the First All-Star Team as the best coach in the league for the season and the team only tied two games, which is tied for the second fewest in a season. He hired the recently retired Cooney Weiland to coach the Bruins for the 1939–40 NHL season. The Bruins would win the Cup again in 1941, and tied their record of only four away losses all season. Ross once again took over as coach of the team before the 1941–42 season began, as Weiland became coach of the Hershey Bears of the American Hockey League, and led the team to 25 wins in 48 games, which was enough to earn third place in the league. By this time the Second World War had caused several Bruins players, including the entire Kraut Line and goaltender Brimsek, to enlist in their respective armed forces. The Bruins finished second in the NHL during the 1942–43 season with 24 wins in 50 games and Ross was again named in the Second NHL All-Star Team as second best coach in the league.

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03-10-2013, 09:46 PM
  #38
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Keeping with the 'kill'em with quickness' theme of the Smoke Eaters

Bruce MacGregor, RW/C


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03-10-2013, 10:15 PM
  #39
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Leafs select Lorne Chabot G

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03-10-2013, 10:52 PM
  #40
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Mike Fologno, RW

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03-10-2013, 11:41 PM
  #41
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C/LW Ryan Walter

Big physical forward who settled into a defensive role after not developing the offense you'd expect from a second overall pick. He was the youngest captain in NHL history at one point and will take faceoffs for Steen.

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03-11-2013, 12:10 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
The idea of a player being a "veteran" in the ATD amuses me. I assume they're all around 28 years old, unless they're Stamkos or something.

That said, I get your point. He brings intelligence, hard work, toughness. The usual things you get out of a good 34 year old.
Heh, poor choice of words, I'll admit.

Especially since he's the first/only "active" player on my roster, thereby making him the youngest on the team.

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03-11-2013, 12:28 AM
  #43
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Heh, poor choice of words, I'll admit. ...
The idea of a player NOT being a "veteran" in the ATD amuses me. I'll bet ATD vet Bobby Orr has been in more ATDs than Ryan Walter.

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03-11-2013, 12:38 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
C/LW Ryan Walter
Big physical forward who settled into a defensive role after not developing the offense you'd expect from a second overall pick. He was the youngest captain in NHL history at one point and will take faceoffs for Steen.
Excellent pick

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03-11-2013, 12:58 AM
  #45
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Ian Turnbull D for Kenora

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Old
03-11-2013, 02:01 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
As I understand it, Kapustin was a second tier scoringline star for the Soviets much like Yakushev and Vikulov. He kept popping up last year during my research of Balderis, both because he played on the Balderis line at CSKA and for the Red Army, and also because he appears to have been quite good. I remember VMBM mentioning at some point that he thought Kapustin was underrated in the ATD, for what it's worth. He was a two-time all-star at the world championships (1978 and 1981), same as Yakushev and Vikulov, and seems to have essentially been the bridge between Kharlamov and Krutov as the best Soviet left wing. I don't know that much about him stylistically; maybe Reen can fill in the gaps there. In terms of Kapustin's on-paper career, at least, this looks like a good pick.
For what it's worth, yeah

I think it had actually something to do with Balderis; was it that in a previous draft Balderis was a first-liner and Kapustin a fourth-liner and I just felt it was wrong? Something like that.

Anyway, I've always liked Kapustin's 'economical skating'; i.e. his feet weren't doing much (quantity-wise) but he had a very powerful stride and IMO was one of the fastest Soviet players ever (from 1976 Canada Cup -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukhxaTZi3Gc&t=58m22s). Slightly more physical, I guess, than your average Soviet player. Probably more of a scorer than a playmaker.

There was that 'superstar-to-be' feeling about him in the mid-/late-1970s, but he never quite made the final step, so to speak. Then he had another peak in 1981-82, when playing with 'S' and 'S' in Spartak and the ntl team (their line might have been the best Soviet line in the 1981 CC and 1982 WC), but it was a bit too late.

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03-11-2013, 03:42 AM
  #47
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HC Donbass selects Mattias Öhlund, D

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03-11-2013, 03:56 AM
  #48
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I have Reen's list. He selects old-time PCHA defenseman Bobby Rowe.

Hobnobs has been PMed.


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03-11-2013, 05:06 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Hershey drafts coach Art Ross
Ross is an interesting coach in the ATD. I have seen more than one reference to the notion that he invented "kitty-bar-the-door" defensive tactics in hockey, or what would now be called the trap, though strangely he doesn't seem to have necessarily run that system too often on Boston with Eddie Shore on the blueline. Some time ago, I ran across what looks like a juicy article concerning Ross and new vs. old coaching tactics circa 1942. I saved the link (which is below), though it's behind a pay wall, so if you want the goods, you'll have to shell out a couple of bucks. Anyway, here it is:

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/csmonito...e&pqatl=google

Here is yet another article which seems to hint at a sort of coaching duel between Ross and the Rangers coaches:

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/csmonito...ried+by+Boston

And finally, here's one from the 1939 playoffs (which would culminate in Ross' only Cup win as a manager) which calls Bill Cowley the nemesis of Lester Patrick. It might shed some light on all of Cowley, Ross and Patrick, if we're lucky:

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/csmonito...o+Ranger+Plans

Lord only knows what's actually in those articles, but I can tell you that the one time I paid to unlock a CSM article, it was very much worth it (it was the article in the dirt thread giving the exact date of the implementation of powerplay rules in the NHL). A pack of 4 articles is eleven bucks, so if you've got one more CSM article you want to take a look at, it might be worth it. I have a feeling that there's a treasure trove of information specifically about Ross' coaching style in those articles.

---------------------------------------------------------------

From what I've gathered reading around in the era, Ross seems to have been a fairly churlish and truculent fellow as a manager, at least. I distinctly recall him getting into public squabbles with Cecil Hart, and I think there were flare-ups with other managers, as well. Not that it matters much for ATD purposes, but it adds some color, I suppose.


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03-11-2013, 06:17 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
Ian Turnbull D for Kenora
That's a good place for Turnbull to go. When it was time for me to get a bottom pairing offensive specialist, ATD canon suggested Turnbull and then a large dropoff to a cluster of generic modern guys who were all pretty much the same. Looking at offensive finishes among defensemen, however, told a different story.

My guy was Steve Duchesne, and I felt completely justified giving him the big bump from 711 in case anyone got the same idea.
2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 9, 11, 14, 14, 28

10 years of prime, with a couple of high finishes among the toughest competition for offensive D ever. But wait, didn't he play with Gretzky?
4, 5, 6, 11, 14, 14, 28
Those are his finishes with his LA years taken out. Those basically measure up to the rest of the guys I'll look at here, and they assume his LA years are worthless. They aren't. You would think that he'd still add a few 5th-15th place finishes if he had worse help during that time based on his own talent level, and still have that great longevity to look at.

Then there's Turnbull and Markov, and an undrafted guys whose peaks are pretty close to Duchesne's, but drop off faster:
Turnbull: 3, 6, 6, 9, 9, 28
Markov: 2, 6, 17, 20, 25
Other guy: 1, 4, 9, 14, 17

Then you have Hatcher and Iafrate, who bring more physical game to the table, so I can see why you'd go for them first. Well, at least Hatcher maybe.
Hatcher: 5, 6, 7, 12, 16, 16, 18, 23
Iafrate: 8, 10, 13, 17, 20

There are two other undrafted guys whose finishes look pretty interesting to me, one who played for ages, who doesn't really even seem to have a peak at all, and another whose finishes stand up to Hatcher, Turnbull et al, but is rather maligned for reasons I won't get into for fear of too much hinting:
No peak: 6, 7, 9, 10, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20, 27, 27, 31
No respect: 5, 8, 8, 9, 9, 13, 17, 19

And then there's still more in this cluster of modern QB guys, most of whom were 50 point guys for 5-7 years and didn't really separate themselves ever.

My point? Not really trying to make any overblown claims, but when we get down to these bottom pairing QB guys, Duchesne should be going first (basically where I picked him), other than Hatcher if you're looking for serious big body presence, because that's another thing altogether. Not pretending he was a steal or anything, but having him lumped into the middle of that cluster underrates him.

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