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Subban's play since coming back

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Old
03-11-2013, 08:39 AM
  #976
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Although PK kept things simple last night, I also loved to see him take a rush during one of our power play; when we seemed to have trouble settling in the O-zone.

We saw him just skate like the Flash, rush the blueline, dump in and use his speed to recover the puck; doing a "hold location" puck battle until wingers came in support to relieve him so he can take his normal position at the Point.


That was not only a clever thing to do; it was a great effort by Subban, and done at an OPPORTUNE moment; when the Panthers seemed to be doing good in their PK and frustrate us. He gave them something new to worry about; and completely blew past their defense.

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03-11-2013, 09:05 AM
  #977
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Getting better = improving. I don't know how you can't understand that. If PK pots 70-80 pts a season he shouldn't be playing defence.

Btw PK was a fat pig over the summer. He barely worked out and would frequent clubs in Toronto. I know this because his parents live behind (literally the house behind) my buddy in Nobleton and he was constantly there with his buddies in the backyard drinking and eating crap.

Everyone is entitled to do that and I'm pretty sure the majority of younger players do that.

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03-11-2013, 09:07 AM
  #978
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You can tell that things are starting to slow down for Subban...he's playing the game less, with his physical abilities (which are so much more advanced than his peers btw) and more with his hockey sense.

He's learning that he can accomplish a lot more on the ice at times, by doing less...he's got a perfect template to follow in that with Andrei Markov

keep it up PK! shut the haters up!

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03-11-2013, 09:12 AM
  #979
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Originally Posted by compile View Post
@Mr Habs
Getting better = improving. I don't know how you can't understand that. If PK pots 70-80 pts a season he shouldn't be playing defence.

Btw PK was a fat pig over the summer. He barely worked out and would frequent clubs in Toronto. I know this because his parents live behind (literally the house behind) my buddy in Nobleton and he was constantly there with his buddies in the backyard drinking and eating crap.

Everyone is entitled to do that and I'm pretty sure the majority of younger players do that.
Not sure if serious...

PK was in tremedous shape. He's a workhorse.
Im pretty sure you can find youtube video of him training this off season.

You can also see that he was in good shape in the 24CH show when he arrived and does the medical.

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03-11-2013, 09:14 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You can tell that things are starting to slow down for Subban...he's playing the game less, with his physical abilities (which are so much more advanced than his peers btw) and more with his hockey sense.

He's learning that he can accomplish a lot more on the ice at times, by doing less...he's got a perfect template to follow in that with Andrei Markov

keep it up PK! shut the haters up!
and yet, there will be people on here telling you it's minor details... (reality is, it's HUGE for any player)

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03-11-2013, 09:47 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and yet, there will be people on here telling you it's minor details... (reality is, it's HUGE for any player)
I keep repeating how it's a huge detail and people say it's a minor improvement. He now takes his time to read the play instead of using his speed or reflexes to outplay the others. His game is more patient and slower than it used to be and it's a great thing.

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03-11-2013, 09:52 AM
  #982
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I keep repeating how it's a huge detail and people say it's a minor improvement. He now takes his time to read the play instead of using his speed or reflexes to outplay the others. His game is more patient and slower than it used to be and it's a great thing.
At the same time though...it's only natural. People tend to forget that Subban is still only 23-24. It seems like he's been in the league for so much longer, but really, he hasn't even approached maturity as a player yet.

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03-11-2013, 10:25 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and yet, there will be people on here telling you it's minor details... (reality is, it's HUGE for any player)
You seem to think that it's a big surprise the level that PK is playing right now but the reality is : he was already a very good shutdown defenseman in his first two years (although in his first year, there were a lot of lapses in his judgement he still showed the rare capacity to shutdown elite players) and he was already very good offensively.

It's not like it came out of nowhere. He was already very good, already playing the most minutes of anyone on our team by a fair margin and he was only on his first 2 seasons ! Lidstrom took 4 or 5 years to really establish himself at both ends of the ice. Same thing for Pronger and most elite defenders.

For PK it has always been a matter of will he be a very good top 2 defenseman that can do everything or will he be downright dominant.

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03-11-2013, 10:41 AM
  #984
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Sochi PP..

Letang to Subban to Crosby to Stamkos for the one timer..


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Old
03-11-2013, 10:44 AM
  #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lemoche View Post
You seem to think that it's a big surprise the level that PK is playing right now but the reality is : he was already a very good shutdown defenseman in his first two years (although in his first year, there were a lot of lapses in his judgement he still showed the rare capacity to shutdown elite players) and he was already very good offensively.

It's not like it came out of nowhere. He was already very good, already playing the most minutes of anyone on our team by a fair margin and he was only on his first 2 seasons ! Lidstrom took 4 or 5 years to really establish himself at both ends of the ice. Same thing for Pronger and most elite defenders.

For PK it has always been a matter of will he be a very good top 2 defenseman that can do everything or will he be downright dominant.
I wouldn't say it was rare to see him shut down elite players, as he was very effective against Crosby in his rookie campaign in the playoffs.

Like you said he has always been reliable on defense, but did make "mistakes", especially when starting the rush, trying to catch the other team off guard, which sometimes backfired. Since he was/is still young, it was expected to see him blunder. This year he seems ready to be "the piece" that we need on D. Yes he isn't perfect, but he is very effective. He is taking a lot less penalties, which helps not only the team, but his image. I always found he was getting the short end of the stick when some of the calls made against him were really borderline.

Where I feel he has made the most is his ability to imitate and grow. When you watch Subban on the PP, he plays very similar to Markov. He no longer rushes or gets rid of the puck quickly to avoid a turnover. He reads the ice well and knows how to protect the puck without much chance of a turnover. Even at ES, you can see that he isn't trying to rush up the ice the moment he gets the pass, he reads the ice, watches what is developing and is ready to skate or make a first pass, which he also improved on.

He is finally able to learn and adapt his game to the style on the ice. This was something I didn't like, but knew it was a matter of time that he would mature. We always knew he had the raw talent and the desire to win, but his ability to learn was always something that was questionable. The way I see it is that I compare to myself at university. When I first started I thought everything was going to be easy and then you start struggling, you either try and force it or you give up. As you experience more, and you tend to face new challenges that you struggle with, you have to ready to find a solution. We all saw that Subban had a stubbornness about him, not necessarily negative but when you are talented at something and you are used to winning, you get complacent. We saw that a bit under Martin. This year he seems to be ready and open minded about everything. He no longer seems complacent and is always ready to improve.

I always liked PK since I found out more about him after we drafted him. I understood that MB wanted to give him a short term deal, but I was one to say give him a long term deal, because he is for real. I hope this doesn't come back to bite us when he has a new deal to sign.

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03-11-2013, 10:53 AM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Although PK kept things simple last night, I also loved to see him take a rush during one of our power play; when we seemed to have trouble settling in the O-zone.

We saw him just skate like the Flash, rush the blueline, dump in and use his speed to recover the puck; doing a "hold location" puck battle until wingers came in support to relieve him so he can take his normal position at the Point.


That was not only a clever thing to do; it was a great effort by Subban, and done at an OPPORTUNE moment; when the Panthers seemed to be doing good in their PK and frustrate us. He gave them something new to worry about; and completely blew past their defense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You can tell that things are starting to slow down for Subban...he's playing the game less, with his physical abilities (which are so much more advanced than his peers btw) and more with his hockey sense.

He's learning that he can accomplish a lot more on the ice at times, by doing less...he's got a perfect template to follow in that with Andrei Markov

keep it up PK! shut the haters up!
I credit Therrien and Markov, and maybe Erik Cole's txt msg.

Just the little bits I've seen of Therrien coaching up PK on 24ch, have impressed me so much. Telling him to let the game come to him, you can really see him taking it to heart out there. Markov's influence is undeniable. Just practicing with a guy like that is invaluable. Last year, PK took off at the same time as Markov returned to practice. No coincidence.

Everyone knows/knew PK has allll the tools, right now he's showing more of an ability to use them in the right situations. It's come to the point where when I see him make one of his infamous blunders, but I'm talking a blunder that many fans here wouldn't even notice because it was made at such a high skill level, I can tell by the look on his face, that he too now realizes what he did wrong. Coaching.

He's really taking the next step and there's no denying that. If he can continue to add this Markovian element to his game then he will be one of the rare few that can overcome a lack of elite hockey IQ/vision to still be among the elite.

I understand that his biggest fans are already considering him Norris caliber, but I will not jump the gun and say he's there yet, but these last couple weeks, there's not anything more you can really ask of him.

Add Diaz to this D-core and get a crease clearer instead of Weber/Kaberle, that's a deep and elite defense.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:56 AM
  #987
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
I wouldn't say it was rare to see him shut down elite players, as he was very effective against Crosby in his rookie campaign in the playoffs.
You misunderstood what I said.

I said the "rare capacity to shutdown elite players" as in having that capacity is rare in itself... not that he showed it rarely.

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03-11-2013, 11:02 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
I wouldn't say it was rare to see him shut down elite players, as he was very effective against Crosby in his rookie campaign in the playoffs.

Like you said he has always been reliable on defense, but did make "mistakes", especially when starting the rush, trying to catch the other team off guard, which sometimes backfired. Since he was/is still young, it was expected to see him blunder. This year he seems ready to be "the piece" that we need on D. Yes he isn't perfect, but he is very effective. He is taking a lot less penalties, which helps not only the team, but his image. I always found he was getting the short end of the stick when some of the calls made against him were really borderline.

Where I feel he has made the most is his ability to imitate and grow. When you watch Subban on the PP, he plays very similar to Markov. He no longer rushes or gets rid of the puck quickly to avoid a turnover. He reads the ice well and knows how to protect the puck without much chance of a turnover. Even at ES, you can see that he isn't trying to rush up the ice the moment he gets the pass, he reads the ice, watches what is developing and is ready to skate or make a first pass, which he also improved on.

He is finally able to learn and adapt his game to the style on the ice. This was something I didn't like, but knew it was a matter of time that he would mature. We always knew he had the raw talent and the desire to win, but his ability to learn was always something that was questionable. The way I see it is that I compare to myself at university. When I first started I thought everything was going to be easy and then you start struggling, you either try and force it or you give up. As you experience more, and you tend to face new challenges that you struggle with, you have to ready to find a solution. We all saw that Subban had a stubbornness about him, not necessarily negative but when you are talented at something and you are used to winning, you get complacent. We saw that a bit under Martin. This year he seems to be ready and open minded about everything. He no longer seems complacent and is always ready to improve.

I always liked PK since I found out more about him after we drafted him. I understood that MB wanted to give him a short term deal, but I was one to say give him a long term deal, because he is for real. I hope this doesn't come back to bite us when he has a new deal to sign.
Really good post.

I will say though, that doing what Bergy did with Subban, will never come back to bite us. The certainty is worth so much more than anyone knows. I'll be glad to pay him 5+ million looong term, if he earns it. Who's to say he didn't become a little complacent after getting PAID? It's sort of natural, this way, he's hungry and wanting to prove what he's worth. I love it tbh, tough love! PK understands this, and everyone around him as well. Take the 2 year deal, go out and prove your worth, get rewarded!

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:07 AM
  #989
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PK Subban is the best D in the entire league with Karlsson out, AINEC.

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03-11-2013, 11:11 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by bdawg1989 View Post
PK Subban is the best D in the entire league with Karlsson out, AINEC.
I'd say he is one of the best d's in the league, but it is close.

OEL, Pietrangelo, Letang, Shattenkirk, Voynov, Suter....there are a lot of good d-men that could arguably lay claim to that title.

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03-11-2013, 11:41 AM
  #991
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I wouldn't have been shocked if he was named a star of the week. Oh well.

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03-11-2013, 11:46 AM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I'd say he is one of the best d's in the league, but it is close.

OEL, Pietrangelo, Letang, Shattenkirk, Voynov, Suter....there are a lot of good d-men that could arguably lay claim to that title.
The only ones out of that list who could legitimately lay claim to that title are OEL, Pietro and Suter. Pie hasn't played too well this year though, he's kinda been all over the place. Shattenkirk is beast, Voynov underrated but neither are close to being the best, imo.

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03-11-2013, 11:51 AM
  #993
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
The only ones out of that list who could legitimately lay claim to that title are OEL, Pietro and Suter. Pie hasn't played too well this year though, he's kinda been all over the place. Shattenkirk is beast, Voynov underrated but neither are close to being the best, imo.
Aye, I was just pointing out there are definitely other candidates out there, and it's not really a "and it's not even close" type situation.

Pietrangelo started slow, but he's been playing great. Letang is accumulating a ton of points (Pens effect in play), and I have a little bit of a man crush on Voynov, so that's why I included him.

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03-11-2013, 11:55 AM
  #994
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Really good post.

I will say though, that doing what Bergy did with Subban, will never come back to bite us. The certainty is worth so much more than anyone knows. I'll be glad to pay him 5+ million looong term, if he earns it. Who's to say he didn't become a little complacent after getting PAID? It's sort of natural, this way, he's hungry and wanting to prove what he's worth. I love it tbh, tough love! PK understands this, and everyone around him as well. Take the 2 year deal, go out and prove your worth, get rewarded!
And it,s not a real two year deal. He's gonna play 42-43 games for 2 million $ on this year contract (which is worthing nearly 4 million for a whole season) and gonna be paid 3,75 next season. Not too shabby. I guess bergevin and his agent will sit next fall to talk about extending his contract, and we should not be surprised to see an 8 years, 50 million + deal being negotiated.

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03-11-2013, 11:58 AM
  #995
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PKS has picked it up recently. When he and Markov are at the points in a PP the opponents really have to exert themselves. However, let's not kid ourselves, we've seen a few feeble Hab PPs recently.

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03-11-2013, 12:05 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Bob Lemoche View Post
You misunderstood what I said.

I said the "rare capacity to shutdown elite players" as in having that capacity is rare in itself... not that he showed it rarely.
You're right, I did misread.

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03-11-2013, 12:05 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by bdawg1989 View Post
PK Subban is the best D in the entire league with Karlsson out, AINEC.
pk is better defensively than karlsson and also brings a physical edge that karlsson doesnt have .god i hope he doesnt cost us as much as karlsson costs the sens.anything around 6 mil per or under and im ecstatic.

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03-11-2013, 12:07 PM
  #998
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
Really good post.

I will say though, that doing what Bergy did with Subban, will never come back to bite us. The certainty is worth so much more than anyone knows. I'll be glad to pay him 5+ million looong term, if he earns it. Who's to say he didn't become a little complacent after getting PAID? It's sort of natural, this way, he's hungry and wanting to prove what he's worth. I love it tbh, tough love! PK understands this, and everyone around him as well. Take the 2 year deal, go out and prove your worth, get rewarded!
I'm just worried that he may cost 7 or even 8 if he pulls off Norris like numbers this year and happens to win it next year. If we signed him long term to a deal that had a cap hit of about 5.5, we would have a better chance of signing other guys.

Obviously this talk is all hypothetical and we can imagine millions of different scenarios.

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03-11-2013, 12:14 PM
  #999
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Aye, I was just pointing out there are definitely other candidates out there, and it's not really a "and it's not even close" type situation.

Pietrangelo started slow, but he's been playing great. Letang is accumulating a ton of points (Pens effect in play), and I have a little bit of a man crush on Voynov, so that's why I included him.
Fair enough! You are absolutely right that it isn't an AINEC situation. That poster and Mr. Hab are over-the-top, with all due respect to them.

I like OEL or Suter as the current best, but those are two teams I am constantly watching. I've been hearing great things about Voynov, but tbh when I've watched LA I haven't focused on him much(prolly more focused on reading the boards lmao). I will be sure to scout him out a bit more. Pie has settled down, it's still early so we'll see how it all plays out.

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03-11-2013, 12:25 PM
  #1000
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And it,s not a real two year deal. He's gonna play 42-43 games for 2 million $ on this year contract (which is worthing nearly 4 million for a whole season) and gonna be paid 3,75 next season. Not too shabby. I guess bergevin and his agent will sit next fall to talk about extending his contract, and we should not be surprised to see an 8 years, 50 million + deal being negotiated.
I believe you are wrong there. The 2M$ is the amount registering for cap hit estimation, Subban will only get paid half of it since he's only playing 42 games this year.

So 1 M$ this year. That was a very smart way to diminish the cap hit without hurting the player too much.

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