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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals/Signings VIII: Less then a month until the deadline

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:07 AM
  #976
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
There's a difference between signing a stop-gap versus trading for one. If you can upgrade the team for free in free agency by signing Weiss? Why not?

It upgrades the team AND gives us the option to trade a guy like Grabo and get assets in return. That's win-win in my books. Upgrade current NHL team + add some picks/prospects for Grabo.

Trading for a #1 guy? Thornton is literally the only example of a legitimate franchise centre that was acquired via trade in the entire league. It simply does not happen on an even remotely regular basis.
I agree with you but, Carter to Columbus and M. Richards to L.A. would be the closest things. That being said, neither were #1 in Philidelphia and Richards wasn't even the #1 once he made it to L.A. Both guys can be argued to be top 30 centers in the league though and would easily be number 1 here.

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03-11-2013, 10:08 AM
  #977
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Jagr? I don't know about that...
Why not?

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03-11-2013, 10:10 AM
  #978
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Jagr? I don't know about that...
I think he'd be more interested in joining the Penguins or Flyers in a rental situation.

Sure he doesn't have a NTC, but he'd get respect and would not be moved to a team he didn't want to go to. Nieuwendyk is not Snow.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:12 AM
  #979
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Kind of hard to compare 8 year restrictions with retirement contracts.

Who besides Getzlaf have received max contracts in the new CBA.

Comparison today is Getzlaf's deal.

I don't like it but I can see Kessel at 7 million. It would be nice around 6.3, about the same as Kane is making. Toews and Kane making the same showing perhaps that offense can still trump all around game when it comes to paydays.
Agreed it is a hard comparison. One reason why I don't see Perry getting a 9+ cap hit, more in the 8.5-9 because it would be to restricting on a team. For Kessel I could see him around the same as Backstrom and Kopitar. About 54 for 8 years for a 6.75 cap hit.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:15 AM
  #980
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I think he'd be more interested in joining the Penguins or Flyers in a rental situation.

Sure he doesn't have a NTC, but he'd get respect and would not be moved to a team he didn't want to go to. Nieuwendyk is not Snow.
Absolutely. Of course he wouldn't want to come here. Nobody wants to come here.

We could Czech to see if he was available?

Sorry

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03-11-2013, 10:15 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by namttebih View Post
Why not?
Doesn't feel like a fit to me. Kulemin on the 4th line seems like a waste of our hardest working player (most nights).

I think we need to be focusing on trading Grabo to a team that needs scoring, for more of a big bodied checking center that we could use.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:20 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I think he'd be more interested in joining the Penguins or Flyers in a rental situation.

Sure he doesn't have a NTC, but he'd get respect and would not be moved to a team he didn't want to go to. Nieuwendyk is not Snow.
ironically (cause we usually think this about players from TO and it doesn't seem to be the case) I think Jagr would actually like to experience playing in TO and for the Leafs

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03-11-2013, 10:21 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
Doesn't feel like a fit to me. Kulemin on the 4th line seems like a waste of our hardest working player (most nights).

I think we need to be focusing on trading Grabo to a team that needs scoring, for more of a big bodied checking center that we could use.
If RC has shown us anything, it's that he will give his checking players ice time. Especially if he trusts them in important situations. He would obviously trust Nic, Jay and Leo so they would get their share of icetime.

Who is this big bodied checking center that you propose?

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03-11-2013, 10:22 AM
  #984
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Top Three deadline Wish List:

1. Statsny
2. Clowe
3. Douglas Murray

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:23 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by namttebih View Post
Absolutely. Of course he wouldn't want to come here. Nobody wants to come here.

We could Czech to see if he was available?

Sorry
Not many would want to end their careers with the Leafs right now, if they had a chance to end it on a contender. If they had a few years left, I could see it. Example Iginla is going to sign another multi-year contract so for him it wouldn't be just about 2013 season, it would be to infinity and beyond.

Jagr probably wants to Czech out with a winner.

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03-11-2013, 10:26 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Not many would want to end their careers with the Leafs right now, if they had a chance to end it on a contender. If they had a few years left, I could see it. Example Iginla is going to sign another multi-year contract so for him it wouldn't be just about 2013 season, it would be to infinity and beyond.

Jagr probably wants to Czech out with a winner.
So you're saying the Leafs aren't going to win the cup this year?

All that being said, he did sign with the Stars this year and they aren't anywhere close.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:28 AM
  #987
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Originally Posted by namttebih View Post
So you're saying the Leafs aren't going to win the cup this year?
I'm not putting any money on it.

Well unless they can grab a 1st. line center and PMD ... then betting odds change.

Yes, but the Stars were 18th. in the league last year and the Leafs were 26th., so perhaps he thought they were on an upward trend.

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03-11-2013, 10:34 AM
  #988
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I'm not putting any money on it.

Well unless they can grab a 1st. line center and PMD ... then betting odds change.

Yes, but the Stars were 18th. in the league last year and the Leafs were 26th., so perhaps he thought they were on an upward trend.
He must have known something that the rest of us didn't. Either that or JN is a hell of a salesman.

Regardless, if it was an option, Jagr for a conditional 3rd and 5th or something. Worth the risk?

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03-11-2013, 10:40 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
There's a difference between signing a stop-gap versus trading for one. If you can upgrade the team for free in free agency by signing Weiss? Why not?

It upgrades the team AND gives us the option to trade a guy like Grabo and get assets in return. That's win-win in my books. Upgrade current NHL team + add some picks/prospects for Grabo.

Trading for a #1 guy? Thornton is literally the only example of a legitimate franchise centre that was acquired via trade in the entire league. It simply does not happen on an even remotely regular basis.
There's a lot of instances where you could argue guys could be #1 around the league that are playing as #2's, but you're right.

Is signing Weiss not the same as having Bozak though? I don't think that Weiss' skillset is that much better than Bozak's to justify a pay upgrade for him. And then trading Grabovski leaves you in the same situation as you would be in now. An underacheiving 2nd line centre with health problems in Weiss and not a true #1 centre as of yet, with assets in the minors that you don't know what you'll get from.

Again, I would overpay for that #1 centre because he makes everyone around him better. Take the first line in Pittsburgh for example... if you think that Dupuis and Kunitz are 1st line players, then you are out of your mind. On any other team, Dupuis would be a 3rd liner and Kunitz a 2nd at best.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:42 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by namttebih View Post
He must have known something that the rest of us didn't. Either that or JN is a hell of a salesman.

Regardless, if it was an option, Jagr for a conditional 3rd and 5th or something. Worth the risk?
TBH I wouldn't give up anything that is long term for Jagr. How about Connolly with the Leafs retaining salary?

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03-11-2013, 10:50 AM
  #991
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TBH I wouldn't give up anything that is long term for Jagr. How about Connolly with the Leafs retaining salary?
In a heartbeat obviously. I'm not sure that the Stars would be clamoring over it though.

I hate giving up picks, I really do. If he can help us win a round though and get that experience for the guys on this team that has very little playoff experience it would be worth it. Right now I'm a little worried that we are going to make the playoffs and get spanked.

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03-11-2013, 10:55 AM
  #992
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Top Three deadline Wish List:

1. Statsny
2. Clowe
3. Douglas Murray
1. Yes and would be a huge upgrade on Bozak. Is better than any of the UFA options out there.

2. Toronto shouldn't be trading for pending UFAs. We aren't a top contender yet. Maybe sign him as a UFA though.

3. At 32 is quickly declining, is another left shot to add to an already crowded left side. I'd rather continue to give Fraser and Holzer chances to develop cause they'll be here over the next few years. Murray is also a pending UFA and Toronto shouldn't be trading for rentals quite yet.

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03-11-2013, 10:58 AM
  #993
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There's a lot of instances where you could argue guys could be #1 around the league that are playing as #2's, but you're right.

Is signing Weiss not the same as having Bozak though? I don't think that Weiss' skillset is that much better than Bozak's to justify a pay upgrade for him.
Yea, but think of it as a free pick up for the long haul.

Beauchemin? We picked him up for free and traded him to get Lupul/Gardiner.

MacArthur/Bozak we picked up for free, and lots of people want to trade them now. Assume we did trade them, and they got us a ~late 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd. That's three picks pretty much for free, just for picking guys up in free agency.

Pittsburgh signing Michalek/Martin is what allowed them to trade Goligoski for Neal. So adding depth shouldnt really be considered a bad thing. It gives you flexibility in terms of moving assets to acquire draft picks, prospects, or upgrade other parts of the roster, while not taking any hit in the part of the roster you're trading from (relative to the previous season).

Not to mention, Weiss >> Bozak. Bozak hasn't cracked 50 points, and that's playing with Kessel and PPG Lupul last season. Weiss has hit 60 twice while playing with pretty bad linemates. Like I said, I don't think Weiss is all that great, but he's still a definitive upgrade.

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03-11-2013, 10:59 AM
  #994
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TBH I wouldn't give up anything that is long term for Jagr. How about Connolly with the Leafs retaining salary?
Jagr has 18 points in 23 games.

He'll get something nice for the Stars at the deadline.

Our opportunity to get Jagr was the off-season.

We're crowded at the wing already and giving those playoff chase and playoff game minutes to guys like Lupul, JVR, Frattin, Kulemin is more important to the growth of building this team to being a contender for multiple years then giving them to a guy who would most likely be gone this off-season.

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03-11-2013, 11:00 AM
  #995
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Jagr on Kadri's wing does sound intriguing...

Although it doesn't make sense to give up a good pick or prospect for a complimentary veteran at this point time.

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03-11-2013, 11:07 AM
  #996
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I want Derek Roy more then Weiss.

Same age but Roy has had better offensive totals throughout his career.

Weiss will also becoming off season ending wrist surgery next year well Roy will be two seasons removed from his knee surgery and is looking to have his career back on track.

Sign Roy to play with Kessel

Trade Grabo for a player better suited to the third role like Dubinsky or even take some picks for Grabo.

Promote Kadri to the 2nd line

Sign Bozak to a Chris Kelly type contract of 3 years x 3.25 per year to play on the 3rd line. If he wants more money or term then let him walk.

Roy
Kadri
Bozak or Acquired player
McClement

Still have lots of cap space for winger upgrade or RD upgrade plus potentially some extra picks from trading Grabo.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:08 AM
  #997
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Yea, but think of it as a free pick up for the long haul.

Beauchemin? We picked him up for free and traded him to get Lupul/Gardiner.

MacArthur/Bozak we picked up for free, and lots of people want to trade them now. Assume we did trade them, and they got us a ~late 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd. That's three picks pretty much for free, just for picking guys up in free agency.

Pittsburgh signing Michalek/Martin is what allowed them to trade Goligoski for Neal. So adding depth shouldnt really be considered a bad thing. It gives you flexibility in terms of moving assets to acquire draft picks, prospects, or upgrade other parts of the roster, while not taking any hit in the part of the roster you're trading from (relative to the previous season).

Not to mention, Weiss >> Bozak. Bozak hasn't cracked 50 points, and that's playing with Kessel and PPG Lupul last season. Weiss has hit 60 twice while playing with pretty bad linemates. Like I said, I don't think Weiss is all that great, but he's still a definitive upgrade.

So when are the Leafs going to trade Bozak and MacArthur for these assets or are you just saying hypothetical?

Because as soon as you trade away a player like Bozak or MacArthur, you have to replace him immediately.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:13 AM
  #998
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So when are the Leafs going to trade Bozak and MacArthur for these assets or are you just saying hypothetical?

Because as soon as you trade away a player like Bozak or MacArthur, you have to replace him immediately.
That also provides good support for why signing Weiss is a good idea.

Either he becomes important to the team, and would be hard to trade. Or he becomes expendable, and is a free asset to trade for picks/prospects/other players.

Either way, it's a win. That's what signing Beauchemin did for us, and people didn't say "oh don't sign Beauchemin, because he's not a #1 D". So why avoid signing Weiss just because he's not a #1 C? Gives us more flexibility.

Worst case scenario, it's a repeat of Connolly, and he can be put on waivers. Doesn't really affect the teams longterm potential at all.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:14 AM
  #999
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I still dont understand this boards obsession with Stastny and Clowe. I can get it 5 years ago but now meh.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:16 AM
  #1000
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Need someone to play with Phaneuf. Big time. Arguably as bad as we need a #1 center. Not sure who we'd target to be honest. Ryan Suter in UFA last year wouldve been sex but... well..

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