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Old
03-11-2013, 10:58 AM
  #351
yoteshot
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I think Slap/snap/wrist takes 3 spots, this explains no 5 and 6

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:58 AM
  #352
Dr Gonzo
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Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
Also the fact that their is no 5 and 6 on that list too...
Yes, but you are forgetting that according to that subjective list, that Tip-ins are the 8th easiest goal! The 8th!!!!

I mean, tapping in an easy rebound is obviously harder than tipping an airborne 1" puck.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:58 AM
  #353
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Only in Montreal would we complain about a player who has 9 points in 7 games since a trade.

"But he's not a big body that goes to the net"

"But we don't know how he scores his points, we don't notice him"

"Erik Cole was bigger and more physical and thats what this team needs"

I'm not saying any of these are false...but it's funny none the less. Meanwhile we seem to have less issues scoring since the trade.

Before the trade: 2.8 goals per game

After the trade: 4.4 goals per game

Altough you could say that our defence (Goals Against) went down the toilet..but this might have to do (a little) with Diaz being injured and Price having a tough stretch.

Before the trade: 2.1 goals against per game

After the trade: 3.6 goals against per game

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:02 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Me too.

Tip-in goals are like secondary assist. This is how I rank the ways to score a goal:

1. Deke the goalie and put (not shoot) the puck in the net
2. One-timer
3. Back-hand shot
4. Slap shot / Snap shot / wrist shot
7. Very close range rebound (like Gionta and Gallagher goal in TB)
8. Tip-in
9. Score with skate (or other body part). Goal is about to be cancelled.
10. Empty net
11. The opponent scores on his own net, and the goal is awarded to the last player that touches the puck.
First assist > Second assist
A 5-on-5 goal > 5-3 goal (in general, with some exceptions)
Deked goals, one-timer, back-hand, slap and wrist shot > Tip-in, skate >> Empty net and own-goal.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:04 AM
  #355
Dr Gonzo
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Deked goals, one-timer, back-hand, slap and wrist shot > Tip-in, skate >> Empty net and own-goal.
Where are you getting this from?

A tip in is harder to produce than just banging in a rebound, or a wrister that squeaks in.

Hate to play this card but...have you ever played hockey? (do you lift brah!? )

And regardless, all the semantics about his points don't matter.

He's producing, no matter how people try to denigrate his play, and no matter what funky random subjective scale they use to measure his play.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:06 AM
  #356
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Are people actually giving different values to different kinds of goal now? Wow. I thought I'd seen it all.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:09 AM
  #357
Dr Gonzo
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Are people actually giving different values to different kinds of goal now? Wow. I thought I'd seen it all.
Just wait until nhl.com starts listing the 10 different goal values.

Statisticians will have a field day!

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03-11-2013, 11:11 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Just wait until nhl.com starts listing the 10 different goal values.

Statisticians will have a field day!
Honestly, it's up there with Gaston Therrien's "I'll be mad if Ryder finishes the season with 45 assists."

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:15 AM
  #359
Dr Gonzo
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Honestly, it's up there with Gaston Therrien's "I'll be mad if Ryder finishes the season with 45 assists."
Crosby, the Art Ross winner, with 25.35 goals and 64.85 assists!

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:22 AM
  #360
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Imagine that you're the one that gives 3 stars to those players. On the score sheet, they all score 2 goals.

Assume all goals are scored on 5-on-5. And all other hockey aspects are exactly the same.

Player A: 1 tip-in goal, 1 crappy goal (very close to the net, like Gionta goal in TB)
Player B: 1 empty-net goal, 1 own-goal credited to him coz he's the last player touching the puck
Player C: 1 goal from deking the goalie, and one-timer slap shot goal

Who will get 1st star, 2nd and 3rd ?

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:29 AM
  #361
Dr Gonzo
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Who will get 1st star, 2nd and 3rd ?
Whoever the fans chose.

However, getting back to the point, a goal is a goal. Especially a tip-in, that takes a lot of skill to pull off (not to mention twice in one game).

And saying a tip-in is the equivalent to a secondary assist is so whacky, I don't know what to say.

If he had scored an empty netter, and just a rebound wrister when the goalie was out of position, MAYBE you'd have an argument, but a tip-in is nowhere close to those type of goals. It takes skill.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:32 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
Only in Montreal would we complain about a player who has 9 points in 7 games since a trade.
Something strange though. Everytime we traded somebody that ended up scoring as well, we ALL were able to find them some weaknesses and some excuses as to why they are so bad as hockey players anyway. To this day, you will find people here that will still believe that Mike Ribeiro is just a weak bad hockey player. It's all about being consequent.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:33 AM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Imagine that you're the one that gives 3 stars to those players. On the score sheet, they all score 2 goals.

Assume all goals are scored on 5-on-5. And all other hockey aspects are exactly the same.

Player A: 1 tip-in goal, 1 crappy goal (very close to the net, like Gionta goal in TB)
Player B: 1 empty-net goal, 1 own-goal credited to him coz he's the last player touching the puck
Player C: 1 goal from deking the goalie, and one-timer slap shot goal

Who will get 1st star, 2nd and 3rd ?
Who scored the GWG?

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:33 AM
  #364
Born in 1909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
Only in Montreal would we complain about a player who has 9 points in 7 games since a trade.

"But he's not a big body that goes to the net"

"But we don't know how he scores his points, we don't notice him"

"Erik Cole was bigger and more physical and thats what this team needs"

I'm not saying any of these are false...but it's funny none the less. Meanwhile we seem to have less issues scoring since the trade.


Before the trade: 2.8 goals per game

After the trade: 4.4 goals per game

Altough you could say that our defence (Goals Against) went down the toilet..but this might have to do (a little) with Diaz being injured and Price having a tough stretch.

Before the trade: 2.1 goals against per game

After the trade: 3.6 goals against per game
Thank you.

Montreal offence has picked up noticeably with the addition of Ryder.

He is an excellent top 9 weapon on any NHL team.

Its as simple as that.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:39 AM
  #365
onice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Me too.

Tip-in goals are like secondary assist. This is how I rank the ways to score a goal:

Yeah, i know what you mean. Even the league uses tip in goals as one of the criteria for tie-breakers.

Jeeze, some people shouldn't comment about hockey....ever.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:41 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
Also the fact that their is no 5 and 6 on that list too...
The joke is on you. he isn't using the decimal system.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:02 PM
  #367
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Ryder is doing his job. He may not be as fun to watch as Galchenchuk but he's been far more productive.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:17 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
Ryder is much more patient with the pucks now.
To me this is the big thing - poise.

I followed the Bruins during their cup run (I started after Kaberle was sent there). And during the playoffs, I think it was, he just seemed to reach that comfort level or whatever it is that's needed to attain that level of patience needed for a good puck control game. To me, and I could easily be wrong, but that cup run did him a tremendous amount of good and was a turning point for him.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:20 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Something strange though. Everytime we traded somebody that ended up scoring as well, we ALL were able to find them some weaknesses and some excuses as to why they are so bad as hockey players anyway. To this day, you will find people here that will still believe that Mike Ribeiro is just a weak bad hockey player. It's all about being consequent.
In the last 10 years, besides Ribeiro, who have we given up on who has ended up scoring in bunches? S. Kostitsyn and his 11 points this season? D'Agostini and his lone goal this season? Andrei Kostitsyn who is not even playing in this league anymore?

Don't get me wrong. More often than not, we didn't maximize the value of our assets. Still, to say we traded any guy who ended up being overly productive besides Ribeiro is definitely an exaggeration.

Then again there's Grabovski, but is he leaps and bounds better than any one of Desharnais or Plekanec?

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:10 PM
  #370
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This thread is starting to look like the one on the main board where people say PK can't be considered for the Norris because he gets too many points on the PP.

Those who don't like Ryder should be happy that he's getting a ton of points. He's just pricing himself out of Mtl.

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:28 PM
  #371
danyhabsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Imagine that you're the one that gives 3 stars to those players. On the score sheet, they all score 2 goals.

Assume all goals are scored on 5-on-5. And all other hockey aspects are exactly the same.

Player A: 1 tip-in goal, 1 crappy goal (very close to the net, like Gionta goal in TB)
Player B: 1 empty-net goal, 1 own-goal credited to him coz he's the last player touching the puck
Player C: 1 goal from deking the goalie, and one-timer slap shot goal

Who will get 1st star, 2nd and 3rd ?

You actually watch the game and choose the best player on the ice...

or if its a close game the 1st star goes to the player with the GWG.

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Old
03-11-2013, 09:34 PM
  #372
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Carbonneau praising Ryder again tonight on L'AntiCHambre. Priceless

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Old
03-11-2013, 09:44 PM
  #373
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
In the last 10 years, besides Ribeiro, who have we given up on who has ended up scoring in bunches? S. Kostitsyn and his 11 points this season? D'Agostini and his lone goal this season? Andrei Kostitsyn who is not even playing in this league anymore?

Don't get me wrong. More often than not, we didn't maximize the value of our assets. Still, to say we traded any guy who ended up being overly productive besides Ribeiro is definitely an exaggeration.

Then again there's Grabovski, but is he leaps and bounds better than any one of Desharnais or Plekanec?
My point was that when we did trade SKost...and D'Ago...and Grabs....and Cammy.....and Latendresse.....and Streit etc....and they ended up getting their points (Cammy as of right now), they were ALL mentioned as this great and stupid "addition by substraction" and how, we didn't care, we didn't need them as they didn't fit the team, didn't worked well as a complete player and so on....And not even the scorers, any grinder who end up playing well their role are never good enough....when they are elsewhere. So the bashing rules for players outside of it based on the same criteria....offensive prowess. Just saying that sometimes, you have to salute what they are doing well. In Ryder's case, he is putting points on the board. But it shouldn't make us totally blind of the other things around the said player. I always prefer to see people in the middle of things. Hate to read about how bad a player is 'cause he just doesn't score....or how great a player's performance was based on his 2 points in a game even if we didn't see him....just like I hate people relying solely on Corsi to demonstrate how great or bad a player is....I'd always wish for something in the middle.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:13 PM
  #374
AH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
My point was that when we did trade SKost...and D'Ago...and Grabs....and Cammy.....and Latendresse.....and Streit etc....and they ended up getting their points (Cammy as of right now), they were ALL mentioned as this great and stupid "addition by substraction" and how, we didn't care, we didn't need them as they didn't fit the team, didn't worked well as a complete player and so on....And not even the scorers, any grinder who end up playing well their role are never good enough....when they are elsewhere. So the bashing rules for players outside of it based on the same criteria....offensive prowess. Just saying that sometimes, you have to salute what they are doing well. In Ryder's case, he is putting points on the board. But it shouldn't make us totally blind of the other things around the said player. I always prefer to see people in the middle of things. Hate to read about how bad a player is 'cause he just doesn't score....or how great a player's performance was based on his 2 points in a game even if we didn't see him....just like I hate people relying solely on Corsi to demonstrate how great or bad a player is....I'd always wish for something in the middle.
Wow, you really need to learn to let go ...

And yes, if they are not on my team I dont care about them...simple.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:43 PM
  #375
Whitesnake
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Wow, you really need to learn to let go ...

And yes, if they are not on my team I dont care about them...simple.
You know you can simply ignore me right? I mean, you also should learn to let go of me if I bother you so much. As far as not caring about them if he's not on your team....fine. I'm pretty sure I'm talking about the ones who DO care about them as they keep bashing them when they are elsewhere. Anyway....yep....I'll let go alright....

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