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Old
03-10-2013, 12:16 PM
  #176
warlord6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Having Lindy Ruff available is a no brainer!!!! He was in Buffalo for 15 years

Hire

Lindy Ruff...Head Coach

Andy Moog...Goalie Coach

Assistants...Anyone...Cooper etc...
Gonna have to agree with bringing in Ruff (He also has a lot of experience coaching vs. our future division). We have tried the "fresh" approach. Let's go with someone who has some miles under them. I do like Cooper, but remember, Boucher was also god-like before he came here...

EDIT: MAybe not Ruff, but someone with real NHL experience.


Last edited by warlord6: 03-10-2013 at 12:53 PM.
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Old
03-10-2013, 12:17 PM
  #177
Son Oncle Jerry
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Oh really?

Top 10 scorers not counting defenseman.

TEAM 1:

21 POINTS
16
15
14
14
14
13
10
9
6
4


TEAM 2:

37
33
21
20
20
14
10
9
8
7

Tampa has plenty of depth. And clearly more than Montreal. The bottom two guys for TB have also only played 15 and 12 games respectively. Montreal obviously has no top end talent at the forward position and score by committee, but even with that TB has by far the better top 10 forward group. Its really not even close. Our 6th best forward has about as many points as your best forward.


So no depth isn't the issue.
Hum... For Montreal, it's:

21
20
16
15
14
14
14
13
10
9

for forwards

and

16
15
13
9
6
6
3

for d-men


On Tampa:

37
33
21
20
20
14
and then it falls to 10

What it shows, is that the Habs have many more scorers capable of scoring on a regular basis. You guys have Tom Pyatt as your #7 threat on offense. We have Lars Eller. And Bourque would have around 15 points if he didn't suffer a concussion. Which would then make guys like Gallagher and Gionta next in line.

You guys have the best offensive players, no question there. Though, both on D and up front, the Habs have more guys capable of having a 50 points season. I mean, we have 10 guys on pace to have more than 40 points in an 82 games season.

I don't know if it will last, but the Habs offense, this season, so far, has come from more players than Tampa's. And the blueline offensive contribution is clearly superior in Montreal.

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Old
03-10-2013, 12:57 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by warlord6 View Post
Gonna have to agree with bringing in Ruff (He also has a lot of experience coaching vs. our future division). We have tried the "fresh" approach. Let's go with someone who has some miles under them. I do like Cooper, but remember, Boucher was also god-like before he came here...
That's a good point, but it just seems like Cooper is special - he's got the AFL affiliate of the Lightning leading the AHL the past two seasons, starting off with a questionable talent pool. The players that are called up play amazingly well, giving more evidence to Cooper (and his current staff's) ability to develop guys to play at the top level. Those players show a physiciality that is lacking from the rest of the parent team, leading me to believe it is a difference in coaching style/structure. He was also a GM before as well as coach at the NAHL level, earning top biling at both jobs.

In comparison, Boucher spent 1 year at the AHL level and did have an outstanding season; however, definitely could argue the talent he had in the Montreal system was at a higher end. He then made the jump to the NHL without having to show he could reproduce previous results.

I see the parallels but Cooper is an asset I want to see the Lightning hold on to.

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Old
03-10-2013, 01:33 PM
  #179
IdealisticSniper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Hum... For Montreal, it's:

21
20
16
15
14
14
14
13
10
9

for forwards

and

16
15
13
9
6
6
3

for d-men


On Tampa:

37
33
21
20
20
14
and then it falls to 10

What it shows, is that the Habs have many more scorers capable of scoring on a regular basis. You guys have Tom Pyatt as your #7 threat on offense. We have Lars Eller. And Bourque would have around 15 points if he didn't suffer a concussion. Which would then make guys like Gallagher and Gionta next in line.

You guys have the best offensive players, no question there. Though, both on D and up front, the Habs have more guys capable of having a 50 points season. I mean, we have 10 guys on pace to have more than 40 points in an 82 games season.



I don't know if it will last, but the Habs offense, this season, so far, has come from more players than Tampa's. And the blueline offensive contribution is clearly superior in Montreal.
What in hell are you talking about?

First of all there is no 20 point scorer on Montreal currently. No idea where you get that from.

I'm mobile right now but you are so off it's not even funny. When I get home I will extrapolate everything for you to prove how off you are. The Lightning are by far the deeper and more talented team in their forward core. It's really not close.

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Old
03-10-2013, 01:39 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
What in hell are you talking about?

First of all there is no 20 point scorer on Montreal currently. No idea where you get that from.

I'm mobile right now but you are so off it's not even funny. When I get home I will extrapolate everything for you to prove how off you are. The Lightning are by far the deeper and more talented team in their forward core. It's really not close.
He's right.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...=nav-sts-indiv

Montreal does have more depth than us, but we have more top end talent.


Last edited by MattM92: 03-10-2013 at 01:47 PM.
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Old
03-10-2013, 01:54 PM
  #181
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4-3 is all that matters to me. We gave up 3 goals in the third on home ice. Mont-real can obviously close out a game. We cannot.

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Old
03-10-2013, 01:55 PM
  #182
IdealisticSniper
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Originally Posted by MattM92 View Post
He's right.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...=nav-sts-indiv

Montreal does have more depth than us, but we have more top end talent.
Ah I see now. The Canadiens stats page only lists Ryder's stats with Montreal not his combined with Dallas stats for the year.

But no, adding the 20 point player doesn't equal out forward depth still. Again, when I get home ill prove this easily.

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Old
03-10-2013, 02:40 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Hum... For Montreal, it's:

21
20
16
15
14
14
14
13
10
9

for forwards

and

16
15
13
9
6
6
3

for d-men


On Tampa:

37
33
21
20
20
14
and then it falls to 10

What it shows, is that the Habs have many more scorers capable of scoring on a regular basis. You guys have Tom Pyatt as your #7 threat on offense. We have Lars Eller. And Bourque would have around 15 points if he didn't suffer a concussion. Which would then make guys like Gallagher and Gionta next in line.

You guys have the best offensive players, no question there. Though, both on D and up front, the Habs have more guys capable of having a 50 points season. I mean, we have 10 guys on pace to have more than 40 points in an 82 games season.

I don't know if it will last, but the Habs offense, this season, so far, has come from more players than Tampa's. And the blueline offensive contribution is clearly superior in Montreal.
You are looking the stats way to onedimensional:

I have made a list with everbodys stats after 82 games (with the current PPG rate) (Only players with at least 10g)

The top15 of every team:
Tampa:
Stamkos: 121.5
St.Louis: 108
Purcell: 69
Lecavalier: 65.5
Conacher: 65.5
Pouliot: 55
Malone: 47.5
Killorn: 43.5
Hedman: 39.5
Bergeron: 37
Salo: 35.5
Pyatt: 33
Carle: 29.5
Thompson: 29.5
Brewer: 26

And now Montreal:
Pacioretty: 82
Ryder: 65.5
Subban: 65
Diaz: 56
Gallagher: 55
Markov: 52.5
Plekanec: 52.5
Eller: 50
Desharnais: 49
Rene Bourque: 48.5
Brian Gionta: 46
Galchenyuk : 42.5
Emelin: 29.5
Prust: 29.5
Kaberle:24.5


Tell me something about scoring depth... We start a lot better and at the end we are still slightly better. You are only a little deeper when it comes to 40 point guys.

Only 2 of your fowards would be able to crack our top6. And if you go 10 games back it would have only been Pacioretty, because at that time Pouliot was near a PPG rate.
Our team is one of the deepest and at the same time one with a lot high end caliber player when it comes to forwards.
If you would exclude the Defenders, that one looks god awful for you. 3 of your top6 are Defenders. And even our 2 consistent 4th liners have better PPG stats than yours.

You are only that good because of Price and your D!!!

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Old
03-10-2013, 06:59 PM
  #184
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I HAD been wondering this since our first losing streak, but didn't want to come to terms with it.

Is it possible we were doing so well at first because Guy hadn't implanted his system firmly on the players yet? Is it because he's now had time to implement it, that we are sucking now?

What even IS Lightning Hockey? I'd like to think it's fast, relentless, high-octane offensive hockey. But with mediocre defense and goaltending. That's how I've come to know it the past few years anyway.

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:08 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Colonel Klinkhammer View Post
I HAD been wondering this since our first losing streak, but didn't want to come to terms with it.

Is it possible we were doing so well at first because Guy hadn't implanted his system firmly on the players yet? Is it because he's now had time to implement it, that we are sucking now?

What even IS Lightning Hockey? I'd like to think it's fast, relentless, high-octane offensive hockey. But with mediocre defense and goaltending. That's how I've come to know it the past few years anyway.
Lightning Hockey is defined as "Steven Stamkos rips the nets off the pipes, everyone else stands around and watches."

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:18 PM
  #186
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Personally, I hope the rumors of Ulf Samuellsson are correct. I think he'd be the one to show the D how nasty they need to be to be successful in this league. He may be the HC at Modo but his family still lives in Scottsdale AZ.

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:38 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by BucLight View Post
Personally, I hope the rumors of Ulf Samuellsson are correct. I think he'd be the one to show the D how nasty they need to be to be successful in this league. He may be the HC at Modo but his family still lives in Scottsdale AZ.
I do want them to be nastier, and if you're going to be in a division with Boston, Montreal, Buffalo, etc. then you need that edge, which I think the Lightning lack.

If Ulf Samuelsson can get them playing nastier, but hopefully without the dirtiness that seems to come along with it, then I guess I'll be happy. Maybe I'm being unrealistic that they be separated. The way I see it is that I don't want one of my teams to initiate the dirtiness, partly out of personal preference and partly out of keeping it a deterrent, but if that nuke gets launched, you respond, and you wreck their **** but still maintain an honor code as much as possible. example: not punching a guy when he's down, but if the guy on the other team does, the rest of my team absolutely flips the **** out, whether or not the refs do anything.

It becomes a situation where if the other team stay within our parameters, they can play us as clean as they'd like. I'm not a fan of bullying a team that wants to play it like that.

The thing that's great about potentially getting Samuelsson is that it's a shot across the bow of the Boston Bruins and our mouthpiece in the media, Mike Milbury.

btw,


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Old
03-10-2013, 08:23 PM
  #188
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Lindy Ruff? Are you ****ing kidding me? Lindy ****ing Ruff.

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Old
03-11-2013, 09:48 AM
  #189
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Lindy Ruff? Are you ****ing kidding me? Lindy ****ing Ruff.
yea this

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:03 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
I do want them to be nastier, and if you're going to be in a division with Boston, Montreal, Buffalo, etc. then you need that edge, which I think the Lightning lack.

If Ulf Samuelsson can get them playing nastier, but hopefully without the dirtiness that seems to come along with it, then I guess I'll be happy. Maybe I'm being unrealistic that they be separated. The way I see it is that I don't want one of my teams to initiate the dirtiness, partly out of personal preference and partly out of keeping it a deterrent, but if that nuke gets launched, you respond, and you wreck their **** but still maintain an honor code as much as possible. example: not punching a guy when he's down, but if the guy on the other team does, the rest of my team absolutely flips the **** out, whether or not the refs do anything.
With Toronto, Boston, and Montreal in the division and Boucher's using a soft system of skill and offence first with toughness second, I don't see how they aren't going to get steamrolled next season.


Last edited by Steve Yzerman: 03-11-2013 at 10:04 AM. Reason: Removed video from quote
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Old
03-11-2013, 10:23 AM
  #191
Son Oncle Jerry
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Originally Posted by Jacko95 View Post
You are looking the stats way to onedimensional:

I have made a list with everbodys stats after 82 games (with the current PPG rate) (Only players with at least 10g)

The top15 of every team:
Tampa:
Stamkos: 121.5
St.Louis: 108
Purcell: 69
Lecavalier: 65.5
Conacher: 65.5
Pouliot: 55
Malone: 47.5
Killorn: 43.5
Hedman: 39.5
Bergeron: 37
Salo: 35.5
Pyatt: 33
Carle: 29.5
Thompson: 29.5
Brewer: 26

And now Montreal:
Pacioretty: 82
Ryder: 65.5
Subban: 65
Diaz: 56
Gallagher: 55
Markov: 52.5
Plekanec: 52.5
Eller: 50
Desharnais: 49
Rene Bourque: 48.5
Brian Gionta: 46
Galchenyuk : 42.5
Emelin: 29.5
Prust: 29.5
Kaberle:24.5


Tell me something about scoring depth... We start a lot better and at the end we are still slightly better. You are only a little deeper when it comes to 40 point guys.

Only 2 of your fowards would be able to crack our top6. And if you go 10 games back it would have only been Pacioretty, because at that time Pouliot was near a PPG rate.
Our team is one of the deepest and at the same time one with a lot high end caliber player when it comes to forwards.
If you would exclude the Defenders, that one looks god awful for you. 3 of your top6 are Defenders. And even our 2 consistent 4th liners have better PPG stats than yours.

You are only that good because of Price and your D!!!
Ok.

First of all, you realize that you haven't taken yesterday's game into account, right? If you do, you'll see that the Canadiens are on pace to have eight (8) 50 points scorer in their lineup. And that's not even taking Diaz and Bourque into account, since the sample is much smaller.

Then, you have to stop discrediting a team because they have some huge offensive contribution from their back end. It's not detrimental to a team's depth. It's offense, no matter how you look at it.

Finally, I'll keep Moen, White, Armstrong and Prust. You keep Pyatt Thompson and whoever your 4th liners are. Good for you if you're happy with yours, we're more than happy with ours.

Then again, I don't want to start a bash fest, so I'll just get out of here. Just wanted to point out that the Habs depth is not as shallow as some of you make it look. They have proven 50 points scorers in Ryder, Plekanec, Bourque, Gionta, Desharnais, Pacioretty. They have interesting d-men capable of putting 40+ points in Markov, Subban and Diaz. And they have young players like Eller, Gallagher and Galchenyuk who can chip in offensively and who will likely increase their productivity going forward.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:35 AM
  #192
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Alright back on topic.

Do you guys think we would even be discussing firing Boucher if it wasn't for Cooper's success in the A?

It's either Boucher or Cooper, IMO. And if I had to guess I think Boucher stays where he is. This season is too much of an anomaly.

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03-11-2013, 10:47 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Alright back on topic.

Do you guys think we would even be discussing firing Boucher if it wasn't for Cooper's success in the A?

It's either Boucher or Cooper, IMO. And if I had to guess I think Boucher stays where he is. This season is too much of an anomaly.
Yzerman is well known for his patience, especially as a GM. I would think that Boucher's job is safe until the end of the season, but if they don't make playoffs, then I would think that Cooper might be brought up. If they draft in the top 3 or top 5, I think there's almost no chance that Cooper is not brought up. If Cooper is not brought up and he takes over another NHL job, and Boucher fails next year, it will fall directly on Yzerman.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:51 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Alright back on topic.

Do you guys think we would even be discussing firing Boucher if it wasn't for Cooper's success in the A?

It's either Boucher or Cooper, IMO. And if I had to guess I think Boucher stays where he is. This season is too much of an anomaly.
I know for me it's the driving force for wanting a change. Coupled with last season, this season suggests Boucher may not be the right fit for us. The key word there is "suggests" - but when you have a wildly successful, steady coaching prospect like Jon Cooper at your fingertips, with the knowledge that he probably won't be available at this time next year, you've gotta think about it.

I still think Guy is a decent coach who will probably find success elsewhere. I just think Coop will be better and since our play has been shaky for some time, I think you can justify making the change in those circumstances.

I liken it perhaps to the Packers going with Aaron Rodgers after Favre retired and tried to come back. Sure you can still have success with the current guy, but if you think the new guy is special, you aren't gonna want to lose him while you still have your chance.

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03-11-2013, 11:22 AM
  #195
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I think the real question you have to ask yourself about Boucher is can he handle the young players that are about to fill this roster ? Cooper has a proven track record in regards to the youth in this organization. What happened last game with regards to Palat and Conacher being on the bench ? Panik had no opportunity to showcase himself when he was brought up. Is it Guy not wanting Gudas or Barbeiro up ? Killorn he has had success with but Alex is a very SAFE player that most coaches could handle. His handling of a young inexperienced goalie like Lindback has to brought into question. Maybe there is an explanation for all of it but I can't figure it out.

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03-11-2013, 11:56 AM
  #196
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You guys have to remember that Boucher was a very successful coach on every non-NHL level himself. This is not a knock on Cooper but if Boucher was still in the AHL half of HFB would want to sign him. Same thing with Cooper now.

Also, I don't think not giving recently called up players more than 12-15 minutes right away makes Boucher a bad NHL coach. He probably has to answer about that to Mr. "Patience" Yzerman anyway.

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03-11-2013, 02:12 PM
  #197
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Quote:
14. There's a lot of speculation about Tampa's coach, Guy Boucher. Saturday's loss, in which they blew a 3-1 lead to Montreal, was a kick to the solar plexus. Yzerman sat in his box for awhile after that one with assistant GM Julien Brisebois and assistant GM/director of player personnel Pat Verbeek. I didn't get a chance to talk to Yzerman about it, but the sense around the organization is Boucher will get the full season to make it work. Goaltending is a huge problem and no coach looks good when that's bad.

15. Unusual: according to The Tampa Tribune's Erik Erlendsson, Boucher has one more year on his contract. But his assistants' deals are up in June.
Quote:
16. One thing the Lightning must fix is the amount of odd-man rushes allowed. When Tampa gets the puck behind the opposition's net, they really like to send guys hard to the front for a potential scoring chance. Opponents say there is plenty of opportunity for counter-attack if you can defend this.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...act-perry.html

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03-11-2013, 02:42 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
You guys have to remember that Boucher was a very successful coach on every non-NHL level himself. This is not a knock on Cooper but if Boucher was still in the AHL half of HFB would want to sign him. Same thing with Cooper now.

Also, I don't think not giving recently called up players more than 12-15 minutes right away makes Boucher a bad NHL coach. He probably has to answer about that to Mr. "Patience" Yzerman anyway.
I agree with them not getting more than 12 to 15 minutes, but under 10 ? They might as well be in Syracuse. Wyman and the like should be up here if that is the case.

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Old
03-11-2013, 02:45 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Alright back on topic.

Do you guys think we would even be discussing firing Boucher if it wasn't for Cooper's success in the A?

It's either Boucher or Cooper, IMO. And if I had to guess I think Boucher stays where he is. This season is too much of an anomaly.
Really? It seems to me that the successful season is the anomaly, and one that is more easily explained. We bring in an outside goaltender that goes on a ridiculous tear, and we have a novel defensive system that initially confuses people. Now? That system has been figured out, that goaltender fell back down to earth, and we're now playing like ass. Last year we thought was a bump in the road on the way to perennial contender... turns out the first season of him here was the anomaly.

I'm done with Boucher.

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03-11-2013, 02:46 PM
  #200
LightningStrikes
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I agree with them not getting more than 12 to 15 minutes, but under 10 ? They might as well be in Syracuse. Wyman and the like should be up here if that is the case.
It's probably Boucher's (and Yzerman's) concept of "easing them in".

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