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It's Time to Tank: Who Gets Moved

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Old
03-10-2013, 09:49 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
So it will be just like two years ago? That's what makes me laugh, a year ahead of time everyone says "next summer's free agency market is going to be awesome!" and then several players get re-signed and then "it's weak". The truth of the matter is, it's pretty much the same every year. We signed a lot of the top FA's on the market two years ago, and beat out a lot of the competition to do so. We won't need nearly as many this summer. It's far from a crisis situation if we trade away a few guys.
I am fairly certain that we will have trouble signing replacement free agents if we finish dead last this year and cut loose some of the players that we signed just two years ago.

Even if we don't have trouble signing them, why would you risk the team's stability just to pick up an extra couple 2nd rounders? That makes no sense. We should not be in continuous rebuilding mode. It is not a guarantee that we would be able to replace the players we trade away and it is very important for this team to do well next year.

I know that you are always very excited about prospects and potential, but at some point, this team needs to progress and that won't happen with a continuously changing roster every year.

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03-10-2013, 10:20 PM
  #277
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I wouldn't worry about any gf dating Skille. As you can see he has a lot of trouble scoring. He's not an awesome fourth liner. He is one dimensional. That dimension is skating up the wing and shooting the puck either into the goalie's chest or shooting the puck wide and it goes out of the zone. He isn't physical and he is not good defensively.
generally agree - he's a bottom 6 role guy but what he can do and could contribute, imo, to a winning team is to be in on the forecheck hard and fast consistently, forcing the D's hand/potentially forcing turnovers. he's got the speed and size to cause problems there and that is a big part of the game now. of course, that requires reasonable D to O transitions, purposeful dump-ins + puck support, all of which we lack atm.

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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
Weird statistic of the night:

The Lightning is +6. The Panthers are -31.

Despite being +37 on the Panthers, the Lightning only have 21 points to the Panthers 20.

The Panthers remain league worst in +/- ... nothing weird about that though.
you know, i haven't had the time or heart to watch many games this season but i've been encouraged to hear that we're playing with so little compete and getting our ***** kicked so consistently. i was SURE we'd be well in front in the race to #1. i was shocked to check the standings just now and see that we're only 1 point behind the lightweights. we need jovo back ASAP!

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03-11-2013, 12:46 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by pantherbot View Post
I am fairly certain that we will have trouble signing replacement free agents if we finish dead last this year and cut loose some of the players that we signed just two years ago.

Even if we don't have trouble signing them, why would you risk the team's stability just to pick up an extra couple 2nd rounders? That makes no sense. We should not be in continuous rebuilding mode. It is not a guarantee that we would be able to replace the players we trade away and it is very important for this team to do well next year.

I know that you are always very excited about prospects and potential, but at some point, this team needs to progress and that won't happen with a continuously changing roster every year.
You make it sound like we are going to trade our whole team though. Most teams bring in and cycle out a few new players every season. I don't see the big deal. The biggest thing that would happen probably is one of Flash or Versteeg traded. MAYBE both. And then a few of our scraps, some of which we wouldn't have brought back anyway. It's not like Flash and Versteeg are doing anything right now anyway. They wouldn't be that hard to replace. Versteeg thinks he's Pat Kane and either turns the puck over or makes some useless move and loses the puck in the corner 99% of the time. Flash has always been inconsistent and lax on defense. I really have no interest in seeing if they will rebound next season. Bringing in new blood can't hurt. We'd have plenty of money to spend with their salaries gone.

We finished 3rd to last two years ago, and we brought in a ton of free agents. They've been here two seasons, that's not yesterday. I don't think even an outside observer could say they've been anything but disappointing this season, I don't think it would reflect badly on the organization if they were traded now.

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:23 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
You make it sound like we are going to trade our whole team though. Most teams bring in and cycle out a few new players every season. I don't see the big deal. The biggest thing that would happen probably is one of Flash or Versteeg traded. MAYBE both. And then a few of our scraps, some of which we wouldn't have brought back anyway. It's not like Flash and Versteeg are doing anything right now anyway. They wouldn't be that hard to replace. Versteeg thinks he's Pat Kane and either turns the puck over or makes some useless move and loses the puck in the corner 99% of the time. Flash has always been inconsistent and lax on defense. I really have no interest in seeing if they will rebound next season. Bringing in new blood can't hurt. We'd have plenty of money to spend with their salaries gone.

We finished 3rd to last two years ago, and we brought in a ton of free agents. They've been here two seasons, that's not yesterday. I don't think even an outside observer could say they've been anything but disappointing this season, I don't think it would reflect badly on the organization if they were traded now.
What you specifically said just a few posts ago was that "Most of the players on our team can be replaced in free agency. They are not that unique. We did it once, we can do it again."

That made it sound like you want to replace most of our team. If you're thinking of trading away a few players, that's fine and normal for a team that isn't going to make the playoffs.

You also have to remember that two years ago, it was Tallon's first year here, there was a lot of optimism surrounding the team and a lot of buzz. That buzz is now gone and has moved on, so it may not be as easy as you think to replicate our success in signing free agents. Remember that before that frenzy two years ago, we had been abysmal in attracting talent.

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03-11-2013, 08:50 AM
  #280
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Still cracks me up that people think because we trade Kuba and/or Versteeg that others will be 'afraid' to come here. I mean, think about that for a bit.

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03-11-2013, 09:15 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Still cracks me up that people think because we trade Kuba and/or Versteeg that others will be 'afraid' to come here. I mean, think about that for a bit.
And it still cracks me up that people think a stable, winning organization isn't more attractive to free agents than an in-flux, losing organization. Also cracks me up that some people think Florida is a prime destination for free agents.

If you were an NHL free agent where would you go for the same money? Detroit, Pittsburg, Boston, etc. or Florida, Edmonton, NYI?

I am not against trading away some of our players (Kuba, Santo, Kovalev, some others), but I am against trading away most of our players and blowing up the roster just for a couple draft picks.

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03-11-2013, 09:38 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by pantherbot View Post
And it still cracks me up that people think a stable, winning organization isn't more attractive to free agents than an in-flux, losing organization. Also cracks me up that some people think Florida is a prime destination for free agents.

If you were an NHL free agent where would you go for the same money? Detroit, Pittsburg, Boston, etc. or Florida, Edmonton, NYI?

I am not against trading away some of our players (Kuba, Santo, Kovalev, some others), but I am against trading away most of our players and blowing up the roster just for a couple draft picks.
Thanks to the salary cap, the cap floor, and team budgets there are only so many teams with enough money to pay free agents. Basically, free agents get their options limited because of the structure if they want to get paid. Flash could have gone to Pittsburgh but he'd probably have to take like 50-75% of what he got here. Money talks. All things equal free agents probably don't come here over the teams you listed. There are some attractive things about playing here. No state income tax, weather (the wife might have input), less media spotlight/pressure, etc. which may sway free agents over those teams but we'll have to get better yoy to ever attract a big name.


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Old
03-11-2013, 10:23 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by pantherbot View Post
And it still cracks me up that people think a stable, winning organization isn't more attractive to free agents than an in-flux, losing organization. Also cracks me up that some people think Florida is a prime destination for free agents.

If you were an NHL free agent where would you go for the same money? Detroit, Pittsburg, Boston, etc. or Florida, Edmonton, NYI?

I am not against trading away some of our players (Kuba, Santo, Kovalev, some others), but I am against trading away most of our players and blowing up the roster just for a couple draft picks.
Where did I say that we're more attractive a club than those? And who did we sign a couple years ago that were top free agents? Flash was the top guy to sign here, and he had health issues. We didn't sign a top teir guy.

And no one is suggesting we blow up the team, but there are players are who aren't working, or who aren't quite fitting the mold Tallon wants, I'd guess, that can be moved. Extea picks can also be used in trades as well.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:09 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Where did I say that we're more attractive a club than those? And who did we sign a couple years ago that were top free agents? Flash was the top guy to sign here, and he had health issues. We didn't sign a top teir guy.

And no one is suggesting we blow up the team, but there are players are who aren't working, or who aren't quite fitting the mold Tallon wants, I'd guess, that can be moved. Extea picks can also be used in trades as well.
I'm not saying you're suggesting we trade most of our players away, but there are several posters who have suggested we do so. I also never said anything about top tier free agents.

As RR has stated, there are certain league structures and some Florida specific benefits that are attractive, but I'm just saying that if we trade away many of our more veteran players, it isn't that easy to replace them.

The 2011 free agent bonanza for us was an abberation and should not be counted on to repeat. I would rather keep most of our main contributors and trade away the more peripheral players.

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03-11-2013, 12:17 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Still cracks me up that people think because we trade Kuba and/or Versteeg that others will be 'afraid' to come here. I mean, think about that for a bit.
As RR and you have said, with DT and the youth as a core, and sunshine and state taxes, players will choose to come here OVER some of the Northeast teams.

Yall think luongo was just wanting to come back for the pizza?

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:18 PM
  #286
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http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/ey...almost-anybody

Take this article for what it's worth, but it's more info on who we are moving....

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:37 PM
  #287
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Canucks Fan Here

Canucks Fan Here, Just curious as to what it would take to get Matthias and Mueller..?

Obviously Schneider or Luongo wont be moving for them, but i do think that those 2 will be dealt, Mueller Value is at his highest in 3-4 years and Matthias is pending RFA(Shore and Howden take there spots next year?)

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:38 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by pantherbot View Post
I'm not saying you're suggesting we trade most of our players away, but there are several posters who have suggested we do so. I also never said anything about top tier free agents.

As RR has stated, there are certain league structures and some Florida specific benefits that are attractive, but I'm just saying that if we trade away many of our more veteran players, it isn't that easy to replace them.

The 2011 free agent bonanza for us was an abberation and should not be counted on to repeat. I would rather keep most of our main contributors and trade away the more peripheral players.
Fair enough. I actually wasn't referring to you, plenty have said we shouldn't trade guys recently signed because it sends a bad sign to other FAs. That's just rubbish.

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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
As RR and you have said, with DT and the youth as a core, and sunshine and state taxes, players will choose to come here OVER some of the Northeast teams.

Yall think luongo was just wanting to come back for the pizza?
Lol, that's kinda true, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/ey...almost-anybody

Take this article for what it's worth, but it's more info on who we are moving....
It mentions Garrioch's article, so I give it little weight. I said a week or so ago that I see 3 maybe 4 guys moved, I still do. I don't think Kopecky, Goc, or a few others available. Not sure on Versteeg, but Flash, Weaver, and no idea who else could be moved.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:39 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by SiCKNESS View Post
Canucks Fan Here, Just curious as to what it would take to get Matthias and Mueller..?

Obviously Schneider or Luongo wont be moving for them, but i do think that those 2 will be dealt, Mueller Value is at his highest in 3-4 years and Matthias is pending RFA(Shore and Howden take there spots next year?)
We have fantasy trade thread.

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03-11-2013, 12:43 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by SiCKNESS View Post
Canucks Fan Here, Just curious as to what it would take to get Matthias and Mueller..?

Obviously Schneider or Luongo wont be moving for them, but i do think that those 2 will be dealt, Mueller Value is at his highest in 3-4 years and Matthias is pending RFA(Shore and Howden take there spots next year?)
Matthias is second and a prospect.

Mueller is a first and a prospect.

They've played well. That's what I would start with but I wouldn't be in a rush to trade Mueller at all.

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03-11-2013, 12:50 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
Weird statistic of the night:

The Lightning is +6. The Panthers are -31.

Despite being +37 on the Panthers, the Lightning only have 21 points to the Panthers 20.

The Panthers remain league worst in +/- ... nothing weird about that though.
I could understand that statistic. Their offense is a hell of a lot better than ours, yet they let up probably close to as many goals as we do.

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03-11-2013, 01:26 PM
  #292
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Fair enough. I actually wasn't referring to you, plenty have said we shouldn't trade guys recently signed because it sends a bad sign to other FAs. That's just rubbish.



Lol, that's kinda true, actually.



It mentions Garrioch's article, so I give it little weight. I said a week or so ago that I see 3 maybe 4 guys moved, I still do. I don't think Kopecky, Goc, or a few others available. Not sure on Versteeg, but Flash, Weaver, and no idea who else could be moved.
What makes it rubbish??? I'm not saying that players we signed that aren't performing well, shouldn't be traded but how would it look if Tallon goes and trades Versteeg after recently resigning him? I just think if Tallon turns around and trades guys like Steeg,Flash,Kulikov ( although drafted by Fla) Kopecky, who are great players signed by Tallon to big contracts, because of a bad season sends a message to other free agents that if you sign here,even if you do well, and the team does poorly, you might get traded.

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03-11-2013, 02:44 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
What makes it rubbish??? I'm not saying that players we signed that aren't performing well, shouldn't be traded but how would it look if Tallon goes and trades Versteeg after recently resigning him? I just think if Tallon turns around and trades guys like Steeg,Flash,Kulikov ( although drafted by Fla) Kopecky, who are great players signed by Tallon to big contracts, because of a bad season sends a message to other free agents that if you sign here,even if you do well, and the team does poorly, you might get traded.
It would look like a business, which is exactly what it is.

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03-11-2013, 04:05 PM
  #294
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It would look like a business, which is exactly what it is.
Exactly. Montreal traded Cole and he signed as a free agent!

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:11 PM
  #295
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Surprisingly our offense isnt nearly as bad as last year we are currently ranked 20th only 2 goals less than the canucks in the league in Goals For iirc we were 27th last year (?) but our GA is horrendous at 98 far and away the worst in the league more than double the best team in the league in that category boston with 48.

Long story short, our defense is bad, really bad. Markstrom is good but he cant keep saving shots with guys left right in the middle of the slot or guys who are allowed to walk in on breakaways.

Upgrades are needed badly. Kuli, Guds, and Campbell are the only ones worth a crap imo. All others could be replaced or upgraded.

We might want to reconsider not drafting defense with our high pick quite honestly.

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03-11-2013, 04:58 PM
  #296
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Why the hell is anyone down on Weaver???

Guds, kuli, campbell, weaver, petro, robak sounds great to me...

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03-11-2013, 05:53 PM
  #297
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[QUOTE=Erick;61448447]It would look like a business, which is exactly what it is.

It is a business, and unfortunately it would be a bad business decision.
The way I see it is that we go and trade for Steeg. Then we resign him the following year as he states he's excited to be here as he know how Tallon works and wants Fla to be his home,as well as Tallon states he loves Steeg and wants to build around him. Then the following year we trade Steeg for a draft pick that'll end up being 20-30 range and a prospect that may or may not crack the NHL lineup. We go from having a player, who last season was a 1st line player, to having a draft pick and prospect.

Pretty much you're telling other FA that while we have no state tax and beaches and Canadians in speedos to bring them to our team, if the team has a bad year, you're gone! Even if you have a good year, Tallon will trade you because the team did poorly and we need to " build for the future"

If we trade Steeg and Flash and the Weiss walks, our 1st line will be ???????????? Still waiting.. The youth line? Kopecky? Matthias? Last season was a "fluke" yet getting rid of two thirds of our top line last season, who was at one point the best top line in the league, is part of the blueprint? We sign Jovo to an over bloated contract,who should be traded, yet well trade Steeg because??? He's available? Other free agents will see that as a turnstile for the team and not want to be a part of it.

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03-11-2013, 06:13 PM
  #298
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[QUOTE=Pantherfan12;61458067]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
It would look like a business, which is exactly what it is.

It is a business, and unfortunately it would be a bad business decision.
The way I see it is that we go and trade for Steeg. Then we resign him the following year as he states he's excited to be here as he know how Tallon works and wants Fla to be his home,as well as Tallon states he loves Steeg and wants to build around him. Then the following year we trade Steeg for a draft pick that'll end up being 20-30 range and a prospect that may or may not crack the NHL lineup. We go from having a player, who last season was a 1st line player, to having a draft pick and prospect.

Pretty much you're telling other FA that while we have no state tax and beaches and Canadians in speedos to bring them to our team, if the team has a bad year, you're gone! Even if you have a good year, Tallon will trade you because the team did poorly and we need to " build for the future"

If we trade Steeg and Flash and the Weiss walks, our 1st line will be ???????????? Still waiting.. The youth line? Kopecky? Matthias? Last season was a "fluke" yet getting rid of two thirds of our top line last season, who was at one point the best top line in the league, is part of the blueprint? We sign Jovo to an over bloated contract,who should be traded, yet well trade Steeg because??? He's available? Other free agents will see that as a turnstile for the team and not want to be a part of it.
I would be fine with keeping Weiss and signing him for less than 4 mil. Also, say we don't trade Versteeg. I think Weiss and Steeger will comeback healthy and ready to go with a regular training camp procedure. They obviously didn't keep themselves in the best shape and they got burned by the injury bug. I'm not ready to give up on Versteeg, yet. Everyone can play GM all they want.. doesn't mean DT is going to get a solid return for Steeg. Same guy that wants him gone is the same guy who gets mad that they only come up with a crap prospect and a 3rd-rounder in return and can't understand why. Then, I just go..

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03-11-2013, 07:23 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post

It is a business, and unfortunately it would be a bad business decision.
The way I see it is that we go and trade for Steeg. Then we resign him the following year as he states he's excited to be here as he know how Tallon works and wants Fla to be his home,as well as Tallon states he loves Steeg and wants to build around him. Then the following year we trade Steeg for a draft pick that'll end up being 20-30 range and a prospect that may or may not crack the NHL lineup. We go from having a player, who last season was a 1st line player, to having a draft pick and prospect.

Pretty much you're telling other FA that while we have no state tax and beaches and Canadians in speedos to bring them to our team, if the team has a bad year, you're gone! Even if you have a good year, Tallon will trade you because the team did poorly and we need to " build for the future"

If we trade Steeg and Flash and the Weiss walks, our 1st line will be ???????????? Still waiting.. The youth line? Kopecky? Matthias? Last season was a "fluke" yet getting rid of two thirds of our top line last season, who was at one point the best top line in the league, is part of the blueprint? We sign Jovo to an over bloated contract,who should be traded, yet well trade Steeg because??? He's available? Other free agents will see that as a turnstile for the team and not want to be a part of it.
Seeing as how every other team does this, it won't. Again, not everyone will be traded. Not sure why that isn't sticking.

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03-11-2013, 07:40 PM
  #300
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Seeing as how every other team does this, it won't. Again, not everyone will be traded. Not sure why that isn't sticking.
I'm not saying the entire team will be traded, were talking about Steeg and Flash.

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