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Old
03-11-2013, 12:27 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Once again, you resort to hypothetical dramatics. Neither of those would happen. First of all, why would Bob walk? When have the Flyers let anybody walk that they wanted to keep?

Why would anybody be pissed if he's struggling? Lots of developing goalies struggle, and we've known for a long time that Bob doesn't do the backup role well and needs starts, both to stay warm and get experience. After he struggled last year there wasn't any of that outrage.

You really need to accept that sometimes, Homer has truly earned the criticism thrown at him. It isn't all unreasonable, knee jerk reactions. Hell, much of it is pretty well thought out.
Seriously the hyperbole is over the top but people constantly do it on here when they want to build up a strawman and knock it down...like trying to debate why Carter and Richards were traded. Right away people have to insert the whole booze argument into the picture to distract from the other more salient issues that lead to the trades (well thought out reasons as you say)....intellectual dishonesty on here is prevalent.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:29 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Caps know Hotlby is the potential long term G of their future. They won't let him go.

I want nothing to do with Neuvie.

Grubauer has looked very, very good this season with Hershey.

Maybe we could trade for him.
yeah Grubauer is the guy I was thinking of. I think this is Nuevirth last season in Washington. Either hes dealt at the deadline or this summer.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:35 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by cheesesteak View Post
What do you mean Bobrovsky had a atrocious year? He had 54 games played with a a .915 sv% as a rookie playing his first season in North America. Then he had a bad playoffs but was never really given a chance to redeem himself. Look he was not even much worse then Bryz last season but he barely got any starts in the 2nd half when the defense was better and that's where Bryz redeemed himself. Also like I said this was the off season predictions for this season thread where I said Bob would prove he can be a starter so I don't get hindsight is 20/20.

I do get trading him because Homer has Bryz signed a eternity, there was no amnesty at the time, and a 2nd was a good return considering all that.
People also like to not factor in that Bob not only went from being a starter his first year in the NHL and did amazingly well until the second half but then had to learn to be a backup with not enough reps to get into a groove b/c we had Bryz who we had to justify all of last year by giving him starts regardless. Trying to learn how to be a starter in this league is hard enough especially when you make the jump straight from the KHL but then mentally you have to adjust in your second year to being a backup...ask players like Bob Froese how tough that is. Actually, there is a pretty good archived article that was written back in the day about how tough it was for Froese to have to deal with being in the shadows especially when you are ultra-competitive like Froese was and Bob is....

Bob was not developed properly here..he was jerked around for expedient reasons and he is in a better place...

Having said this I think Holmgren did ok with his return ..at face value but we shall see.

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03-11-2013, 12:51 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
People also like to not factor in that Bob not only went from being a starter his first year in the NHL and did amazingly well until the second half but then had to learn to be a backup with not enough reps to get into a groove b/c we had Bryz who we had to justify all of last year by giving him starts regardless. Trying to learn how to be a starter in this league is hard enough especially when you make the jump straight from the KHL but then mentally you have to adjust in your second year to being a backup...ask players like Bob Froese how tough that is. Actually, there is a pretty good archived article that was written back in the day about how tough it was for Froese to have to deal with being in the shadows especially when you are ultra-competitive like Froese was and Bob is....

Bob was not developed properly here..he was jerked around for expedient reasons and he is in a better place...

Having said this I think Holmgren did ok with his return ..at face value but we shall see.

agree with all of this..

while i do miss bob, i still understand moving him was basicly better for both parties..

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:07 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesesteak View Post
What do you mean Bobrovsky had a atrocious year? He had 54 games played with a a .915 sv% as a rookie playing his first season in North America. Then he had a bad playoffs but was never really given a chance to redeem himself. Look he was not even much worse then Bryz last season but he barely got any starts in the 2nd half when the defense was better and that's where Bryz redeemed himself. Also like I said this was the off season predictions for this season thread where I said Bob would prove he can be a starter so I don't get hindsight is 20/20.

I do get trading him because Homer has Bryz signed a eternity, there was no amnesty at the time, and a 2nd was a good return considering all that.
That was his rookie year. I said he was traded after the atrocious year (.899/3.02). He had a good rookie year. That is true. But he also played the second year, wherein he looked like crap.

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03-11-2013, 01:11 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Seriously the hyperbole is over the top but people constantly do it on here when they want to build up a strawman and knock it down...like trying to debate why Carter and Richards were traded. Right away people have to insert the whole booze argument into the picture to distract from the other more salient issues that lead to the trades (well thought out reasons as you say)....intellectual dishonesty on here is prevalent.
If I didn't use all caps would that make it better? You really think that those arguments would not be being made if those scenarios went down? Or is that you think those scenarios were not possible? If so, please explain to me why. I find it hard to believe that Bob would have accepted a backup salary and played backup when he made it clear that he wanted to be the starter. I also find it hard to believe people would not be complaining he got starter money to be the backup or if he walked through UFA. So please explain to me what the team should have done and why the intellectual dishonesty of me saying people on here would complain is so absurd.

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:13 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
That was his rookie year. I said he was traded after the atrocious year (.899/3.02). He had a good rookie year. That is true. But he also played the second year, wherein he looked like crap.
And he didn't perform up to expectations b/c he had to adjust to an entirely different role and not an easy one at that....he is not all at fault. I mean Brys was given a mulligan by many for the season because he was "adjusting" yet Bob wasn't I guess? I mean whenever he would have an outstanding game where he was the difference last year he would then go back to riding the pine b/c we had to accomodate Bryz and his contract. Bob was placed in a no win situation of sorts.

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03-11-2013, 01:16 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
If I didn't use all caps would that make it better? You really think that those arguments would not be being made if those scenarios went down? Or is that you think those scenarios were not possible? If so, please explain to me why. I find it hard to believe that Bob would have accepted a backup salary and played backup when he made it clear that he wanted to be the starter. I also find it hard to believe people would not be complaining he got starter money to be the backup or if he walked through UFA. So please explain to me what the team should have done and why the intellectual dishonesty of me saying people on here would complain is so absurd.
It's absurd b/c you are arguing a hypothetical! This is crap girlfriends pull! I remember arguing with a gf over a hypothetical situation invented by her mind that I was susceptible to cheating when I hadn't even done so....how am I supposed to defend myself over a contrived situation that never occurred? It is pure absurdity..

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03-11-2013, 01:17 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
And he didn't perform up to expectations b/c he had to adjust to an entirely different role and not an easy one at that....he is not all at fault. I mean Brys was given a mulligan by many for the season because he was "adjusting" yet Bob wasn't I guess? I mean whenever he would have an outstanding game where he was the difference last year he would then go back to riding the pine b/c we had to accomodate Bryz and his contract. Bob was placed in a no win situation of sorts.
I am not knocking Bob as a goalie. I would love for him to be backing up Bryz, but that is (was) an unrealistic option. Once Bryz was signed it was clear he was not going to re-sign here. If you think otherwise you are fooling yourself. I wanted them to trade him as soon as the Bryz contract was signed because his value was likely at its highest. It was not a knock on Bob, just that there was no room for him.

If Bryz wasn't signed we would be having a completely different discussion. If your issue is that Bryz never should have been signed, that is different than saying Bob shouldn't have been traded once Bryz was signed. I would not have been ok with trading Bob if Bryz wasn't here.

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:20 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I am not knocking Bob as a goalie. I would love for him to be backing up Bryz, but that is (was) an unrealistic option. Once Bryz was signed it was clear he was not going to re-sign here. If you think otherwise you are fooling yourself. I wanted them to trade him as soon as the Bryz contract was signed because his value was likely at its highest. It was not a knock on Bob, just that there was no room for him.

If Bryz wasn't signed we would be having a completely different discussion. If your issue is that Bryz never should have been signed, that is different than saying Bob shouldn't have been traded once Bryz was signed. I would not have been ok with trading Bob if Bryz wasn't here.
My whole entire premise is that Bob was not handled properly here (his development was hurt) and yeah he had to be moved b/c we committed to Bryz which is looking not so great.

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03-11-2013, 01:21 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
It's absurd b/c you are arguing a hypothetical! This is crap girlfriends pull! I remember arguing with a gf over a hypothetical situation invented by her mind that I was susceptible to cheating when I hadn't even done so....how am I supposed to defend myself over a contrived situation that never occurred? It is pure absurdity..
Uhh...my response was to the post that talked about not trading Bob in 2011. So I talked about what would have happened had Bob not been traded in 2011. I guess a proper response would have been to say that talking about that is pure absurdity (sorry for using another hypothetical situation).

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:22 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
My whole entire premise is that Bob was not handled properly here (his development was hurt) and yeah he had to be moved b/c we committed to Bryz which is looking not so great.
That's fine and that very well may be the case. It still does not change the fact that trading him was the right move given the circumstances.

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:28 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
That's fine and that very well may be the case. It still does not change the fact that trading him was the right move given the circumstances.
And the circumstances were not ideal but that is b/c Bryz didn't hold up his end of the deal last year and this year it looks shaky again. It's just typical for the Flyers that we had a very good goalie prospect and fast tracked him only to slow track him in his second year. Just bad bad player development. They probably should have just left him on the Phantoms from the outset but then there were issues with that for various reasons...

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03-11-2013, 02:09 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
And the circumstances were not ideal but that is b/c Bryz didn't hold up his end of the deal last year and this year it looks shaky again. It's just typical for the Flyers that we had a very good goalie prospect and fast tracked him only to slow track him in his second year. Just bad bad player development. They probably should have just left him on the Phantoms from the outset but then there were issues with that for various reasons...
Again, that is not what we are talking about. The circumstances were what they were. If you have an issue with how things got that way, that is a different discussion. The point I have been making is that with the way things were, trading Bob was the right thing to do. If you do not agree with that, explain why.

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03-11-2013, 02:13 PM
  #90
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this is a goofy argument. people are acting like he was patrick roy. he sucked in the playoffs and was pretty lame last year too. i still blame the team in front for the way the goalies have been performing numbers wise here but bob had no place here. if were gonna change goalies from bryzgalov to whatever we can do better than bob. even tho i'd rather keep bryzgalov for another five years. i just want to change our coach at this point.

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03-11-2013, 02:16 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yeah Grubauer is the guy I was thinking of. I think this is Nuevirth last season in Washington. Either hes dealt at the deadline or this summer.
If we bring in another young goalie than we can use it as another excuse again when Bryz is ****ing the bed.

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Old
03-11-2013, 02:18 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Again, that is not what we are talking about. The circumstances were what they were. If you have an issue with how things got that way, that is a different discussion. The point I have been making is that with the way things were, trading Bob was the right thing to do. If you do not agree with that, explain why.
You want to treat the two as mutually exclusive..that is fine but the fact they botched things from the outset still doesn't make the trade the right thing to do necessarily. Guess it's just a matter of perspective and interpretation. Getting a couple of picks for Bob with one being a second (Stolarz) makes it somewhat more redeeming at face value but jury is still out. In the meantime, we have to deal with the here and now and that means not having an NHL capable backup still and a questionable starter for that matter. This is what happens when you screw things up at the outset..


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 03-11-2013 at 02:27 PM. Reason: emphasis with the starter
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03-11-2013, 02:22 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
this is a goofy argument. people are acting like he was patrick roy. he sucked in the playoffs and was pretty lame last year too. i still blame the team in front for the way the goalies have been performing numbers wise here but bob had no place here. if were gonna change goalies from bryzgalov to whatever we can do better than bob. even tho i'd rather keep bryzgalov for another five years. i just want to change our coach at this point.
A goofy argument is not taking into account him trying to adjust to a new role as backup...not much different than the mulligan for Bryz all last year where people said he needed to get acclimated to the city, team, fans, media, Jersey drivers etc etc.

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03-11-2013, 02:28 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yeah Grubauer is the guy I was thinking of. I think this is Nuevirth last season in Washington. Either hes dealt at the deadline or this summer.
Please, no Neuvirth

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:09 PM
  #95
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bob>>>>>$5.7 million mistake

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03-11-2013, 03:15 PM
  #96
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bob>>>>>$5.7 million mistake
You seem to like this. Get it printed on t-shirts, sell them, make profit. It could really take off!

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03-11-2013, 03:26 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
And the circumstances were not ideal but that is b/c Bryz didn't hold up his end of the deal last year and this year it looks shaky again. It's just typical for the Flyers that we had a very good goalie prospect and fast tracked him only to slow track him in his second year. Just bad bad player development. They probably should have just left him on the Phantoms from the outset but then there were issues with that for various reasons...
You should stop wasting your time. Trying to get DFF to admit that Holmgren might have made a clear mistake / overreacted is like trying to get BP1974 to admit that Bryz is playing poorly this year.

You'd have better luck trying to bend a spoon with your mind.

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03-11-2013, 03:27 PM
  #98
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You seem to like this. Get it printed on t-shirts, sell them, make profit. It could really take off!
take off out of this universe

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03-11-2013, 04:05 PM
  #99
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You should stop wasting your time. Trying to get DFF to admit that Holmgren might have made a clear mistake / overreacted is like trying to get BP1974 to admit that Bryz is playing poorly this year.

You'd have better luck trying to bend a spoon with your mind.
That's unfair to DFF. You and I might not always agree with him, but he does use logical arguments and can admit when he's wrong.

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03-11-2013, 04:22 PM
  #100
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That's unfair to DFF. You and I might not always agree with him, but he does use logical arguments and can admit when he's wrong.
I'd like to see evidence of DFF admitting Holmgren made a mistake. He's quite possibly the biggest Holmgren lapdog I've ever seen in my life. He defends him to the death.

I honestly cannot recall a single instance where DFF criticized something Holmgren did.

Btw, I'm not saying DFF is a bad poster or anything, he's actually really good to discuss things with, provided that they aren't related to a past Holmgren blunder or potential blunder. He's good in the GDTs, he's good when you're discussing future moves, but when you're looking back and criticizing a Holmgren move, he defends the guy non-stop, regardless of logic. It's like BP1974, you can discuss anything with him and have a good logical discussion as long as it doesn't involve goaltending/Bryzgalov.

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