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OT - Landis fails Drug Test at Tour De France

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Old
07-27-2006, 11:03 AM
  #51
HabuseMoi
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ok right now its stupid to say Armstrong may have taken enhancing drugs, right, i'm done. anyway and i'll be stupid for not trusting the anti-drugs test at 100%.

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07-27-2006, 11:06 AM
  #52
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damn I liked that guy... now hes a shame... if the test are truely positive

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07-27-2006, 11:07 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
At present Ulrich and Basso et al are guilty by association, the optics might be bad, but they have not been found guilty anything (aside from poor judgment).

You can flesh this point out all you like, it's still a non sequitor. Your assumptions are not facts, and it does not follow that beating alleged cheaters makes it certain that you are a cheater.
If you choose to believe that, because there isn't an airtight case against armstrong, that he is clean then it's your business. I refuse to have the wool pulled over my eyes on this one. No, Ulrich and Bsso havn't been proven guilty yet, but when was the last time a cyclist got exonerated after being under suspicion? it never happens! ever.

Armstrong has decimated a field of alledged dopers for 7 years. There have been many claims that armstong himself was doping, though they none have been proven conclusively.

I am not saying that this holds up in a court of law, but in the court of common sense I think it's hard to say that he wasn't doping.

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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
Increased fitness can be achieved by training etc...
please...
all of these guys are training rediculously hard, it's all they do. The reason that they dope is so that they can train harder. The argument that a guy doesn't dope because he works so hard is eroneuous, because performance enhancers are what allow you to puch past your normal training regimen. The reason alot of guys don't get caught is because they train on the stuff durring the offseason and then drop down to undetectable levels durring race season.

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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
What beating cancer has to do with anything I don't know, perhaps that gave Armstrong more focus and desire than other cyclists.
the point is that before he went on this run armstrong was a relitievly average cyclist, In order to beat the top cyclist in the world, when they are doping, cleanly he would have to be an extraordinary talent. he never showed this.

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07-27-2006, 11:14 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by HabuseMoi View Post
my cousin is a cyclist of a somewhat high caliber, and he says he's 99% certain that Armstrong is doped. Same for a big part of my family who all did cyclist competition.

Take it for what it's worth (probably nothing to you, but I just wanted to put in the opinion of someone who actually knows something about cyclism from the athlete perspective).
there is still 1%

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Old
07-27-2006, 11:20 AM
  #55
habfan4
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Originally Posted by xander View Post
If you choose to believe that, because there isn't an airtight case against armstrong, that he is clean then it's your business. I refuse to have the wool pulled over my eyes on this one. No, Ulrich and Bsso havn't been proven guilty yet, but when was the last time a cyclist got exonerated after being under suspicion? it never happens! ever.

Armstrong has decimated a field of alledged dopers for 7 years. There have been many claims that armstong himself was doping, though they none have been proven conclusively.

I am not saying that this holds up in a court of law, but in the court of common sense I think it's hard to say that he wasn't doping.
Forget Airtight! There wasn't and hasn't been a case by any sporting/cycling body that has stuck - only allegations, of which Armstrong has been cleared time and time again.

You're entitled to your "common sense" conclusions, if you want to believe Armstrong is a cheat that is fine by me. However, the logic behind your conclusions is IMO piss poor.

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please...
all of these guys are training rediculously hard, it's all they do. The reason that they dope is so that they can train harder. The argument that a guy doesn't dope because he works so hard is eroneuous, because performance enhancers are what allow you to puch past your normal training regimen. The reason alot of guys don't get caught is because they train on the stuff durring the offseason and then drop down to undetectable levels durring race season.
No rebuttal to my point that the Tour is in fact a team event and that Armstrong was fortunate enough to have cycled for teams with incredibly deep pockets. Which means he had access to top class training, coaching, technology and most important he had high calibre team mates. Clearly this means nothing and he must have been doping

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Originally Posted by xander View Post
the point is that before he went on this run armstrong was a relitievly average cyclist, In order to beat the top cyclist in the world, when they are doping, cleanly he would have to be an extraordinary talent. he never showed this.
Life changing/focusing event or he beat cancer only to pump his body full of potentially dangerous performance enhancing drugs. I'll go with the former.

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07-27-2006, 11:25 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
Forget Airtight!
No rebuttal to my point that the Tour is in fact a team event and that Armstrong was fortunate enough to have cycled for teams with incredibly deep pockets. Which means he had access to top class training, coaching, technology and most important he had high calibre team mates. Clearly this means nothing and he must have been doping
.
T-Mobile is also a team that is very rich and stacked with talent, so is csc. discovery is a very good team, they're not the only one, and they're not heads and shoulders than everyone else (as we saw this tour.)

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07-27-2006, 11:31 AM
  #57
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T-Mobile is also a team that is very rich and stacked with talent, so is csc. discovery is a very good team, they're not the only one, and they're not heads and shoulders than everyone else (as we saw this tour.)
From 2000 till about 2004, I would argue that USPS were head and shoulders above the rest. Once Armstrong won in 1999, the sport gained a huge profile in the US which means huge dollars and all the other resources that go with it.

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07-27-2006, 12:04 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
From 2000 till about 2004, I would argue that USPS were head and shoulders above the rest. Once Armstrong won in 1999, the sport gained a huge profile in the US which means huge dollars and all the other resources that go with it.
Tactically I would agree that USPS was the best team out there because of they're structure. I think you could argue that T-Mobile has been just as talented, if not more so, but has been plauged by a vacume of leadership and having two many guys who wanted to be the top dog.

I don't deny that the team was a huge factor in arstrong's success, but it wasn't the team that let him look the leaders of the peleton in the eye and ride away from them as he did countless times, and I don't think it was just natural talent either.

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07-27-2006, 03:45 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by BORAT View Post
Man ... camman , obviously you had inside information on this right ? jeez I hate it when peope just rant and rant about stuff of which they are clueless about, I had 3 years of law in Mcgill and if you knew the intricacies of the OJ simpson trial which included :

- A Detective that was part of the KKK
- Evidence proven to be planted
- And not a TRACE not one of Oj's DNA although other unidentified DNA were on the spot

you wouldn't be talking about this trial.
What year did you graduate from McGill Borat?

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07-27-2006, 04:01 PM
  #60
toshiro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BORAT View Post
Man ... camman , obviously you had inside information on this right ? jeez I hate it when peope just rant and rant about stuff of which they are clueless about, I had 3 years of law in Mcgill and if you knew the intricacies of the OJ simpson trial which included :

- A Detective that was part of the KKK
- Evidence proven to be planted
- And not a TRACE not one of Oj's DNA although other unidentified DNA were on the spot

you wouldn't be talking about this trial.
Who was the detective? Was this proven?
What evidence was proven?
Wasnt blood found?

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Old
07-27-2006, 04:03 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Just posted at TSN.ca. Details to follow.

Not sure if anyone follows the tour, but this will be a pretty big story.
Maybe they will have to remove both of this one's testicles.

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Old
07-27-2006, 04:13 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BORAT View Post
Man ... camman , obviously you had inside information on this right ? jeez I hate it when peope just rant and rant about stuff of which they are clueless about, I had 3 years of law in Mcgill and if you knew the intricacies of the OJ simpson trial which included :

- A Detective that was part of the KKK
- Evidence proven to be planted
- And not a TRACE not one of Oj's DNA although other unidentified DNA were on the spot


you wouldn't be talking about this trial.
Links?

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Old
07-27-2006, 04:18 PM
  #63
HabuseMoi
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Links?
I would be curious to see that too...

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Old
07-27-2006, 04:38 PM
  #64
RC51
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Have we not had enough of all this drug testing.

Lets reverse all this in one act.

Legalize ALL DRUGS. Everything !

Criminalize ALL GUNS. Everything !

Buy a big island where the justice system can dump ALL ciminals.

Combine ALL religions into ONE.

Combine ALL countries into ONE.

Combine ALL races into ONE.

notice I said combine and not exterminate all others.

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Old
07-27-2006, 04:49 PM
  #65
ChemiseBleuHonnete
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Testosterone, that makes zero sense.

First of all, almost all kind of enancing testosterone have long half-lives. So, having a positive result for only one day is very unlikely (impossible), unless he took unesterified testosterone, it would then be possible. But taking one shot of unesterified testosterone would not even improve performance. Bottom line, I can't see how he cheated or in fact I don't see why he would have taken the testosterone.

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Old
07-27-2006, 07:02 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by HabuseMoi View Post
I would be curious to see that too...
I have a sense we're about as likely to get proof of these claims as we are to see a single one of Borats trade rumours come to fruition.

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Old
07-28-2006, 04:16 AM
  #67
Evilo
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Originally Posted by franchise player View Post
Testosterone, that makes zero sense.

First of all, almost all kind of enancing testosterone have long half-lives. So, having a positive result for only one day is very unlikely (impossible), unless he took unesterified testosterone, it would then be possible. But taking one shot of unesterified testosterone would not even improve performance. Bottom line, I can't see how he cheated or in fact I don't see why he would have taken the testosterone.
A rider isn't tested everyday.
Each stage winner is tested, as well as some guys picked randomely. Landis was tested positive the day he won the stage. It could very well be the only time he was tested in the TdF.

That said, all these guys have masking agents.
I still think someone wants Landis' head.

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