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Habs on Tradecentre (Who do you want at the deadline/in free agency?)

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:17 PM
  #951
LePoche69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Every time I venture to the Avs board, I read countless O'Byrne sucks posts. Such as:
I'm not saying these comments aren't true, but you can read almost the same thing here about Gionta.

Anyway, I would let Habs' pro scouts decide. I have fate in Dudley.

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03-11-2013, 03:19 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
I doubt Anaheim even thinks this deal is realistic. Talk about over evaluating your own players...
So you think it's not enough, and another poster thinks it's way too much... Sounds like I nailed it!

Of course, the big difference between Anaheim and Atlanta is that Anaheim wants to make a run of their own. In that sense, I think the best option for Anaheim is to convince Perry to sign, and then trade him in the off-season. A kind of delayed sign-and-trade.

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03-11-2013, 03:21 PM
  #953
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Personnaly, I bet that Perry won't move. Now that Getzlaf is signed, Perry will follow shortly.

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03-11-2013, 03:25 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Personnaly, I bet that Perry won't move. Now that Getzlaf is signed, Perry will follow shortly.
And if he does, then you have to believe Bobby Ryan is available...

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03-11-2013, 03:25 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Personnaly, I bet that Perry won't move. Now that Getzlaf is signed, Perry will follow shortly.
Not sure if they have the cap room as Perry will command a higher salary than Getzlaf. Also will likely have to replace Selanne and Koivu who may retire.

The real question is does Montreal have the cap space for say an 8.5-9 million cap hit?

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03-11-2013, 03:27 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I have fate in Dudley.
Oh the ironic power of the typo.

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03-11-2013, 03:32 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Are you all ****ing crazy? I'd drive Eller, Beaulieu and a 1st to Anaheim myself on a scooter for Perry, UFA or not. He's a stud, power forward with a nasty streak. He's literally everything everyone on this board has said we need for the past 20 years and you're balking because of Lars Eller? Are you serious?

Will Eller, Beaulieu and a 1st get you the numbers that Perry has, combined and be THE difference maker in the Playoffs? Have or will any of those pieces won the Stanley Cup, Heart or Rocket Richard trophy like Perry has, highly unlikely.

Pay the man what he's worth and he'll stay, especially if we're a winner.

I like Eller but he's no Perry. I doubt Anaheim even thinks this deal is realistic. Talk about over evaluating your own players...
I don't care how good Perry is, if you trade for him and he ends up elswhere next year it's a bad trade unless you win the cup. Even with Perry I think the Habs would be in tough right now.

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03-11-2013, 03:32 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by puckeater View Post
Oh the ironic power of the typo.
Sorry. I don't get it. Lost in translation. Can you explain?

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03-11-2013, 03:32 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
Not sure if they have the cap room as Perry will command a higher salary than Getzlaf. Also will likely have to replace Selanne and Koivu who may retire.

The real question is does Montreal have the cap space for say an 8.5-9 million cap hit?
They have the cap room, it's just a matter of how much do they want to tie up on one line(Getzlaf Perry Ryan).

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03-11-2013, 03:33 PM
  #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
Not sure if they have the cap room as Perry will command a higher salary than Getzlaf. Also will likely have to replace Selanne and Koivu who may retire.

The real question is does Montreal have the cap space for say an 8.5-9 million cap hit?
Replacing Selanne and Koivu is in fact a reason they can sign Perry.

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:35 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Sorry. I don't get it. Lost in translation. Can you explain?
I believe the word you were looking for is faith not fate

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03-11-2013, 03:36 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Knuckles30 View Post
So you think it's not enough, and another poster thinks it's way too much... Sounds like I nailed it!

Of course, the big difference between Anaheim and Atlanta is that Anaheim wants to make a run of their own. In that sense, I think the best option for Anaheim is to convince Perry to sign, and then trade him in the off-season. A kind of delayed sign-and-trade.
Perry would almost certainly ask for a NTC, not to mention he will most likely test the market.

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03-11-2013, 03:38 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Replacing Selanne and Koivu is in fact a reason they can sign Perry.
I could see Koivu and Selanne returning for one more season. Next year is an Olympic year, and they're both still productive, so I bet they'd want to be around for one more chance at gold. Either that, or they go back to Finland where they'd have a lighter schedule and be in better shape for the Olympics, but that depends on their families' willingness to move.

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03-11-2013, 03:46 PM
  #964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
The real question is does Montreal have the cap space for say an 8.5-9 million cap hit?
2013-14:

FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($2.000m) / Corey Perry ($8.500m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Gabriel Dumont ($0.578m) / Ryan White ($0.722m)
Petteri Nokelainen ($0.575m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Greg Pateryn ($0.875m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.150m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,237,708; BONUSES: $2,885,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $5,447,292


Last edited by Knuckles30: 03-11-2013 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Forgot to hit save when I upped DD to $2M
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03-11-2013, 03:48 PM
  #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't care how good Perry is, if you trade for him and he ends up elswhere next year it's a bad trade unless you win the cup. Even with Perry I think the Habs would be in tough right now.
I don't have a list handy, but off the top of my head, usually the team trading for the star UFA ends up giving up very little in the end. Kovalchuk, Hossa, Campbell, B. Richards, Bertuzzi, Smyth...

I don't think any of the prospects or the picks in those deals, despite being highly touted at the time, ended up turning into anything major (except Mike Smith in the Richards deal I guess).

Almost always the team getting the best player in the trade wins the deal. And even if the player leaves, the damage to the team still winds up being pretty minimal.

So while a package of Eller, Beaulieu and a first sounds like a king's ransom, when their careers are over and we're in a position to judge...it probably won't be a whole lot, all told. Years ago people probably would have balked at a Latendresse + S. Kostitsyn + 1st package for someone like Hossa...today, what's that package worth?


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03-11-2013, 03:54 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Hemlor View Post
I would not be willing to do this for a rental.
That's the risk you take to try and win a Cup. Sometimes it wins, sometimes it doesn't. Fact is, Habs have a much better chance at a real Cup run with Perry than with the other assets. If you're serious about winning, than that's the rub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
If he were signed then hell yes I would make that deal. As a UFA though, you are essentially giving up 3 first rounders for a rental. Stupid if you ask me, and I'd personally run over MB with a scooter if he did that.
Considering the Habs are the top ranked team in the conference and have cap space along with being a hockey capital, there's no good reason Perry wouldn't sign here.

Deals this size are not done in vaccums. Bergy would almost certainly talk to Perry and his agent to see if he was open to signing in Montreal or if he had absolutely no interest. In addition to that, we could also ask for a conditional 2nd if he didn't sign. That in addition to the other picks we hoarded and saved cap space from trading Eller could help sign another highly touted UFA or trade for one at the draft.

This isn't a all or nothing deal. We still have options if he does or doesn't sign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckles30 View Post
So you think it's not enough, and another poster thinks it's way too much... Sounds like I nailed it!

Of course, the big difference between Anaheim and Atlanta is that Anaheim wants to make a run of their own. In that sense, I think the best option for Anaheim is to convince Perry to sign, and then trade him in the off-season. A kind of delayed sign-and-trade.
Also, Atlanta was a blackhole of hockey and had no team. They just wanted to make the playoffs for the first time and try to get as many home game revenue as possible. There was no management, direction or future there. Far from being Montreal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't care how good Perry is, if you trade for him and he ends up elswhere next year it's a bad trade unless you win the cup. Even with Perry I think the Habs would be in tough right now.
I do care how good Perry is. With Perry in the line up, you have 3 complete top lines and a tonne of depth. You have the speed, goal scoring and tenacity that you need to play against a team like Boston and win. Something that we're currently not capable of doing without a guy like Perry. Fact is, he's one of the best power forward in the league and these guys cost money as they're a rae commodity.

He's definately not the only piece we need. I've said before we need a lock down defensive defenman as well. A more mobile Hal Gill 2.0 also with a nasty streak and I think we'd have a legit chance at a Cup run imo. So maybe Perry isn't the only piece we need, but he's definatly the biggest.

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03-11-2013, 03:55 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I don't have a list handy, but off the top of my head, usually the team trading for the star UFA ends up giving up very little in the end. Kovalchuk, Hossa, Campbell, B. Richards, Bertuzzi, Smyth...

I don't think any of the prospects or the picks in those deals, despite being highly touted at the time, ended up turning into anything major (except Mike Smith in the Richards deal I guess).

Almost always the team getting the best player in the trade wins the deal. And even if the player leaves, the damage to the team still winds up being pretty minimal.

So while a package of Eller, Beaulieu and a first sounds like a king's ransom, when their careers are over and we're in a position to judge...it probably won't be a whole lot, all told.
The oft-cited example is Iginla for Nieuwendyk - although even there Dallas won the cup and Calgary never did with Iginla. Of course, that's because Nieuwendyk re-signed with Dallas. If he hadn't...

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03-11-2013, 03:55 PM
  #968
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We have the cap for next year to sign Perry. But the two season after, that's a different story when we'll have to re-sign (at the very least, these contracts end): Gionta, Galchenyuk, Eller, Gallagher, Desharnais, Markov, Subban, Emelin, Diaz, and probably a few more rookies that have made the jump from Hamilton. These players are either going to want more or as much as before. Some will say we won't re-sign Gionta, that's a possibility, which will help out. But a big contract for Perry at 8mil+ will definitely complicate things long term. I'm not saying it's impossible. It's doable... Anyways, we're definitely going to have trade players sooner or later (if it ain't for UFA contracts, it's going to be for prospects coming up from Hamilton). For instance, Desharnais will probably be traded. As much as I like the kid, it's just a question of time until Galchenyuk takes his spot and we're definitely not trading Plekanec. But yea, MB will have his hands extremely full.

It's either long term with a "lower" salary. Or high salary for a year or two. Though, if we do sign him, it's most likely high salary, long term.

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03-11-2013, 03:58 PM
  #969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckles30 View Post
2013-14:

FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($2.000m) / Corey Perry ($8.500m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Gabriel Dumont ($0.578m) / Ryan White ($0.722m)
Petteri Nokelainen ($0.575m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Greg Pateryn ($0.875m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.150m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,237,708; BONUSES: $2,885,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $5,447,292
That's a thing of beauty.

Year after, I'd use Markov's money to pay Subban what he'll ask for and by that time, hopefully Tinordi can be ready for full time duty and Diaz will continue to get better.

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03-11-2013, 04:02 PM
  #970
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
That's a thing of beauty.

Year after, I'd use Markov's money to pay Subban what he'll ask for and by that time, hopefully Tinordi can be ready for full time duty and Diaz will continue to get better.
I'd keep Markov until he retires. It's pretty clear that the team's much better with him in the lineup. He may have slowed down, but he's still an incredible player.

Besides, there isn't just Subban's contract to fill. Lot's of players are going off the books when he does.

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03-11-2013, 04:03 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by Cupmonger View Post
We have the cap for next year to sign Perry. But the two season after, that's a different story when we'll have to re-sign (at the very least, these contracts end): Gionta, Galchenyuk, Eller, Gallagher, Desharnais, Markov, Subban, Emelin, Diaz, and probably a few more rookies that have made the jump from Hamilton. These players are either going to want more or as much as before. Some will say we won't re-sign Gionta, that's a possibility, which will help out. But a big contract for Perry at 8mil+ will definitely complicate things long term. I'm not saying it's impossible. It's doable... Anyways, we're definitely going to have trade players sooner or later (if it ain't for UFA contracts, it's going to be for prospects coming up from Hamilton). For instance, Desharnais will probably be traded. As much as I like the kid, it's just a question of time until Galchenyuk takes his spot and we're definitely not trading Plekanec. But yea, MB will have his hands extremely full.

It's either long term with a "lower" salary. Or high salary for a year or two. Though, if we do sign him, it's most likely high salary, long term.
Some of those players won't be back i.e. Gionta, maybe Markov etc and others may have been traded away, let go or replaced by younger cheaper players. Add to that the cap is ever rising and I think you're safe to add salary.

Just with Kaberle, Markov, Gionta, Armstrong, Moen and Budaj you're saving close to $20M. Even of you keep some of these players, it would likely be at a discount as guys like Gio and Markov won't bein their prime anymore.

There's too many variables and combinations to worry about not fitting under the future cap.

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03-11-2013, 04:03 PM
  #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckles30 View Post
2013-14:

FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($2.000m) / Corey Perry ($8.500m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Gabriel Dumont ($0.578m) / Ryan White ($0.722m)
Petteri Nokelainen ($0.575m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Greg Pateryn ($0.875m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.150m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,237,708; BONUSES: $2,885,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $5,447,292
Just curious.. What did you do with Eller?

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03-11-2013, 04:05 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
Not sure if they have the cap room as Perry will command a higher salary than Getzlaf. Also will likely have to replace Selanne and Koivu who may retire.

The real question is does Montreal have the cap space for say an 8.5-9 million cap hit?
You do realize that the only person over 9m cap hit is Ovechkin, right? Even Malkin and Crosby have $8.7 million cap hit. There's not a chance Perry's will be that high. We're looking at $7-8 million at MOST, and he's not even worth that.

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03-11-2013, 04:06 PM
  #974
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Some of those players won't be back i.e. Gionta, maybe Markov etc and others may have been traded away, let go or replaced by younger cheaper players. Add to that the cap is ever rising and I think you're safe to add salary.

Just with Kaberle, Markov, Gionta, Armstrong, Moen and Budaj you're saving close to $20M. Even of you keep some of these players, it would likely be at a discount as guys like Gio and Markov won't bein their prime anymore.

There's too many variables and combinations to worry about not fitting under the future cap.
Bingo. The revenues this year are much higher than expected, and add to that the rumours of multiple outdoor games in the next few years and the cap will be back above $70M within 2-3 years.

I'm not even convinced it will be $64M next year - wouldn't be surprised if they announced that based on the higher than anticipated revenues this year it moves a little higher.

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03-11-2013, 04:07 PM
  #975
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Just curious.. What did you do with Eller?
He traded him with Beaulieu and a 1st for Perry.

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