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Blues Trade Proposals Part 4

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:51 AM
  #701
simon in canada
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If we substituted Russell for Cole in this hypothetical deal, would it still be a deal? Otherwise I say no. In short, Russell, Rattie and Halak for Kipper and Giordano. Hmmmm?

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03-11-2013, 05:29 AM
  #702
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If Martin St. Louis was shopped, what would you guys give for him? Assuming we could afford the contract of course. Obviously a winger would be going the other way, but who? I think a talent like MSL would really do some wonders for the organization and fan base.
As Much as I love MSL and the huge PR boon from his last name notwithstanding, MSL will be 38 years old on June 18th. I don't see that happening.

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03-11-2013, 05:38 AM
  #703
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If we substituted Russell for Cole in this hypothetical deal, would it still be a deal? Otherwise I say no. In short, Russell, Rattie and Halak for Kipper and Giordano. Hmmmm?
Absolutely, in a New York Minute!

The more I think about Halak, what has he accomplished here? All his fame came in one calander year and that was 3 years ago. Like other have said however, how do the Blues feel about Allen being a #1 goalie? If Kip fails to deliver St. louis it's 1st Cup in June...

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03-11-2013, 10:19 AM
  #704
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Ah. The biggest carrot for the Blues is saving 3M going from Halak to Kiprusoff next season, which almost perfectly offsets going from Giordano to Cole.
True.

I recognize how hamstrung the Blues are in the budget department more than most so I appreciate the context of the trade from an economical perspective.

I think this hypothetical trade has to be looked at in both the short run and long run.

The biggest argument against this scenario is two fold:

1) You give up an in-his-prime Halak for a 37-year old stop gap. It would be like giving up Halak for Evgeni Nabokov. You lose the long term organizational safety-net in goal because Halak still has the potential to be a difference making netminder during his prime years while Kipper will be 38 at the end of next season.

2) You are forced to make a determination that Halak is expendable because of Allen's rise despite having roughly 10 games (assuming he gets a couple of starts before the trade deadline) of evidence to make your decision. That's an intense projection and a huge decision on a 22-year old with little NHL experience. Allen has played great IMO and I've been impressed with his mental makeup but I don't think many in the organization would be comfortable with that outlook even if Kiprusoff buys one additional year of Allen not having to be the outright #1 starter.

Basically, if management is convinced Kipper still has a year and a half of good hockey in him and you're able to acquire a key piece like Giordano, I think you could justify dealing Halak in the short term. But in the long run, because of the age difference between Halak and Kipper and because for this trade to work out Allen pretty much has to pan out, it's a huge, and in my opinion, unnecessary gamble.

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03-11-2013, 12:49 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
True.

I recognize how hamstrung the Blues are in the budget department more than most so I appreciate the context of the trade from an economical perspective.

I think this hypothetical trade has to be looked at in both the short run and long run.

The biggest argument against this scenario is two fold:

1) You give up an in-his-prime Halak for a 37-year old stop gap. It would be like giving up Halak for Evgeni Nabokov. You lose the long term organizational safety-net in goal because Halak still has the potential to be a difference making netminder during his prime years while Kipper will be 38 at the end of next season.

2) You are forced to make a determination that Halak is expendable because of Allen's rise despite having roughly 10 games (assuming he gets a couple of starts before the trade deadline) of evidence to make your decision. That's an intense projection and a huge decision on a 22-year old with little NHL experience. Allen has played great IMO and I've been impressed with his mental makeup but I don't think many in the organization would be comfortable with that outlook even if Kiprusoff buys one additional year of Allen not having to be the outright #1 starter.

Basically, if management is convinced Kipper still has a year and a half of good hockey in him and you're able to acquire a key piece like Giordano, I think you could justify dealing Halak in the short term. But in the long run, because of the age difference between Halak and Kipper and because for this trade to work out Allen pretty much has to pan out, it's a huge, and in my opinion, unnecessary gamble.
Couldn't agree more.

I'm not ready to give up on Halak and anoint Allen to be the savior in net just yet. Maybe in a couple of years, but not now.

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03-11-2013, 12:52 PM
  #706
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Couldn't agree more.

I'm not ready to give up on Halak and anoint Allen to be the savior in net just yet. Maybe in a couple of years, but not now.
Well Kipper would be the savior now, Allen would be the savior in 2ish years after Kipper is done.

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03-11-2013, 01:01 PM
  #707
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What would you guys give for Smid?

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03-11-2013, 01:25 PM
  #708
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What would you guys give for Smid?
He would be a nice pick up. I'm pretty sure he is an UFA this year. I think he will cost at least our 2nd round pick and maybe a prospect. Depends on whether Edmonton is intent on resigning him. He is about the only solid defensive d-man they have. Probably the best UFA on the market that I know of. I would have to think he will be an expensive rental.

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03-11-2013, 01:29 PM
  #709
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He would be a nice pick up. I'm pretty sure he is an UFA this year. I think he will cost at least our 2nd round pick and maybe a prospect. Depends on whether Edmonton is intent on resigning him. He is about the only solid defensive d-man they have. Probably the best UFA on the market that I know of. I would have to think he will be an expensive rental.
They might bite on a Cole+conditional pick, but that's a big risk. If he's available I'd do 1st/2nd + McRae or a different mid prospect.

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03-11-2013, 01:42 PM
  #710
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They might bite on a Cole+conditional pick, but that's a big risk. If he's available I'd do 1st/2nd + McRae or a different mid prospect.
If they would take a McRae, Grachev or basically any of our Peoria forwards, then I would jump on it. Prefer to lose the lower of the two 2nds picks.

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03-11-2013, 02:03 PM
  #711
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The Oilers will surely be pretty determined to resign Šmíd. He has just married a local girl and likes it there, so I imagine that he'd want to work something out as well. Again the main issue here is that the price is going to be steep.

I'd offer Cole+2nd providing we speak to him and like what we hear. If he goes to UFA, a GM will throw stupid money at him. He would be the ideal complimentary guy to Pietrangelo. $3.75m long term?

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03-11-2013, 02:07 PM
  #712
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I would not give up Cole for a rental.

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03-11-2013, 02:11 PM
  #713
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I would not give up Cole for a rental.
I'd only move Cole if we spoke to Šmíd before the trade and all but signed the extension.

Burmistrov still getting talked about as trade bait, I said previously that I had reservations that he'd be able to get his offensive game going, but I really wonder what the Jets would want. He is still only 21 and has tremendous upside.

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03-11-2013, 02:20 PM
  #714
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I'd only move Cole if we spoke to Šmíd before the trade and all but signed the extension.

Burmistrov still getting talked about as trade bait, I said previously that I had reservations that he'd be able to get his offensive game going, but I really wonder what the Jets would want. He is still only 21 and has tremendous upside.
Agree with you on Burmistrov.

I would really hate to move Cole even if the extension is a done deal. Would have to be a lower pick in my eyes for Cole. We lack depth on the backline. If we could move a forward, then I would do that. Deal from strength. I don't see Smid being affordable. He will have the market to cherry pick.

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03-11-2013, 02:43 PM
  #715
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Well Kipper would be the savior now, Allen would be the savior in 2ish years after Kipper is done.
Yes, but my fear is that Kipper will be done before Allen is ready. I can't see the same thing happening with Halak, and I don't think it's worth trading him to gain Giordano (please don't get me started on Gio). Hopefully, we can deal Elliott in the offseason (or to someone like NJ at this year's deadline), and then run with Allen as the backup for the next year. We can re-visit our goalie situation at next year's deadline.

I've seen it written on HFB before, so I'll add that I agree with the following statement: We will sink or swim with Halak as our #1 goalie.

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03-11-2013, 02:46 PM
  #716
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Edmonton would be silly (silly, I say!) to let Smid hit UFA without re-signing him. I'd love to have him in STL of course, but I'm not getting my hopes up until I hear that Edmonton has officially decided to be silly.

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03-11-2013, 02:48 PM
  #717
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Agree with you on Burmistrov.

I would really hate to move Cole even if the extension is a done deal. Would have to be a lower pick in my eyes for Cole. We lack depth on the backline. If we could move a forward, then I would do that. Deal from strength. I don't see Smid being affordable. He will have the market to cherry pick.
I don't really want to lose Cole either, but the Jackman extension always put us in an awkward position with him.

Next year we'll hopefully add Teemu Eronen and Jani Hakanpää (and Edmundson, but he is probably further away) to Peoria which will give us some depth. I also wonder how interested we are in Andrej Šustr, every team in the League will at least talk to him and most will offer him a contract... but I think we might be in a good position to get him in St. Louis.

Add Šmíd and Šustr, lose Cole, plus the additions in Peoria and we'd be in a massively better position than we are now.

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03-11-2013, 03:13 PM
  #718
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I don't really want to lose Cole either, but the Jackman extension always put us in an awkward position with him.

Next year we'll hopefully add Teemu Eronen and Jani Hakanpää (and Edmundson, but he is probably further away) to Peoria which will give us some depth. I also wonder how interested we are in Andrej Šustr, every team in the League will at least talk to him and most will offer him a contract... but I think we might be in a good position to get him in St. Louis.

Add Šmíd and Šustr, lose Cole, plus the additions in Peoria and we'd be in a massively better position than we are now.
Why do you believe Sustr will have interest here? Don't get me wrong...I would love to have him. What advantage do you see that we have for him?

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03-11-2013, 04:39 PM
  #719
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Absolutely, in a New York Minute!

The more I think about Halak, what has he accomplished here? All his fame came in one calander year and that was 3 years ago. Like other have said however, how do the Blues feel about Allen being a #1 goalie? If Kip fails to deliver St. louis it's 1st Cup in June...


How quickly we forget what happened last year(Jennings Trophy).

People need to come back to reality a bit here.
Halak is having a bad year; but it is the first "bad" year in his entire 6 year career. Halak has proven himself to be an excellent Goalie and is worth every penny of his contract.

This "trade Halak" stuff is utter nonsense.

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03-11-2013, 05:08 PM
  #720
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How quickly we forget what happened last year(Jennings Trophy).

People need to come back to reality a bit here.
Halak is having a bad year; but it is the first "bad" year in his entire 6 year career. Halak has proven himself to be an excellent Goalie and is worth every penny of his contract.

This "trade Halak" stuff is utter nonsense.
Lolwut?

Oh, okay, how soon we forget Elliott is a Jennings Trophy winner and owns the best regular season statistics in the history of the NHL. See how that works?

Halak's stats have not proven him to be anything yet. If anything they've proven he's inconsistent, injury-prone, only able to handle platoon duty. His sole season being a #1 he ranked 28th in the league in save percentage among the guys who had lots of games.

Some people think Halak is the long term answer we have to lock up, I get that. They could absolutely turn out to be right. But let's not manufacture reality to defend that position. Talk about utter nonsense.

This is a thread for exploring trade ideas; obviously we aren't managing the team, none of us. Certainly there's some logic in the thought process, and it's fair speculation about how mgmt is looking at the goaltending situation.


Last edited by PocketNines: 03-11-2013 at 05:14 PM.
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Old
03-11-2013, 05:26 PM
  #721
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Just now:

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@NormSanders

Coming soon, Blues GM Doug Armstrong offers a frank assessment of the team's goaltending situation and other issues #stlblues
Quote:
@NormSanders

Army also talks about Blues injuries, the left side of the defense, Patrik Berglund, etc. Should have it for you in the next hour #stlblues

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03-11-2013, 05:35 PM
  #722
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Exactly everything all of us have discussed in the past week. Looking to here what Armstrong thinks about the whole situation so we can get further speculation of the future of this team.

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03-11-2013, 06:04 PM
  #723
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Exactly everything all of us have discussed in the past week. Looking to here what Armstrong thinks about the whole situation so we can get further speculation of the future of this team.
Any chance he'll mention Paul Stastny and/or Mark Giordano?

I'm sure he'll say what we already know: because of the tight races during the shortened season, trade deadline day will be dull because there's only going to be a couple of sellers and the buyers aren't going to like the prices.

He should point out the fact that some of the teams beneath us in the standings (Colorado, Columbus) are playing great and if we don't get our act together, we'll be on the outside of the Top 8 looking in.

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03-11-2013, 06:25 PM
  #724
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Here's the link.

There is really nothing eye raising in the slightest in the piece. Just the same old quotes. Basically we're right in the thick of the race, we looked at LHD in the summer and the guys we have just have to play better. Elliott and Halak didn't play in the summer and goaltending hasn't been a strength like last year. Every quote obvious, you get zero sense of anything he's planning.

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03-11-2013, 06:58 PM
  #725
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"Right now we have seven guys and I think it's a mistake to think that these guys can't get the job done. They have no choice, they have to get the job done.".
I actually believe him, sadly.

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