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The All-Purpose Goaltending Thread #8

View Poll Results: Should we use an amnesty buyout on Bryz?
Hell Yes! 65 72.22%
Hell No! 25 27.78%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:05 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
The two goals he gave up were both makeable saves, but they weren't necessarily soft, and he made at least one huge momentum save late in the first off a wide open rebound in the slot. If Bryz could consistently make those momentum saves without surrendering soft goals like he did last night, I think a lot of people would feel better about having him in net. But he hasn't, so we don't.

and the only reason he had to make that big save on that rebound is because of the ****ing horrible rebound he let up from a shot pretty much on the goalline.

I loved seeing him flop around like a fish for a few seconds after the second goal he gave up. puck was already in the back of the net and there he is flopping around like he made the save and the puck went elsewhere. that should be a clue right there that he has no clue where the puck goes when he gets lucky and actually makes a save. so many times hes looking around for the puck not having a clue where it went. guy is a $5.7 million mistake

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03-11-2013, 04:14 PM
  #902
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I am a lifetime Flyers fan. I began following them since their second year of existence, so I've seen every goalie they've ever had. Parent, Favell, Gamble, Taylor, Stephenson, Peeters etc.
I have not had confidence in a Flyers goalie since the Hextall era. I was in favour of acquiring Ilya Bryzgalov, and I've given him support during the time he's been here, however I am getting tired of his inconsistency.
Bryz doesn't inspire confidence, he makes me as a fan nervous as hell in every game. There isn't a time where I think, the Flyers have this game/ Bryz is a rock out there, and there's no way the other team will beat him!
Those thoughts never happen when it comes to this guy.
I remember a former team mate of Bernie Parent saying that he asked Bernie. " how many goals do we need to get to beat this team?" Bernie responded, "one,maybe two".
Bryzgalov was given a three point cushion against the Penguins last week in the first period, and managed to blow it! Bernie, Pelle, Hexy....wouldn't blow a lead like that.
Bryzgalov makes his fans nervous, so I'm sure his teammates are equally nervous.
It's time for a better back up goalie who could actually be a starting goalie.
It's time for Holmgren to get off his arse and help this team by acquiring a useable back up!

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03-11-2013, 04:45 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Only if it reflects badly on Bryz, right? Chances are extremely good it would reflect poorly on him.
Well, if scoring chances reflected poorly on Bryz, then clearly they'd be yet another in the long line of useless stats created for the sole purpose of dragging down Bryz:
-Save percentage = USELESS
-GAA = USELESS
-Shots Against = USELESS
-Scoring Chances (assuming it reflects negatively on Bryz) = USELESS

Why can't these stats just reflect what is obvious to any Flyers' fan with eyes? Bryzgalov = Team MVP and Vezina Candidate.

The only somewhat promising goaltending stat that I can find is TOI. Bryzgalov is 1st in that category with Ryan Miller 2nd and Pekka Rinne 3rd. That's 3 pretty good goalies right there, so I'd imagine Goaltending TOI might be the best stat available to show which goalies are playing well.

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03-11-2013, 04:48 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Pretty much every goal Miller gave up last night was defensive break down. Using your logic it wasn't his fault.
I think you should check again. This isn't possible. The Flyers are the only team in the NHL who have more than 1 defensive breakdown per game.

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03-11-2013, 05:11 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by JustJim View Post
I am a lifetime Flyers fan. I began following them since their second year of existence, so I've seen every goalie they've ever had. Parent, Favell, Gamble, Taylor, Stephenson, Peeters etc.
I have not had confidence in a Flyers goalie since the Hextall era. I was in favour of acquiring Ilya Bryzgalov, and I've given him support during the time he's been here, however I am getting tired of his inconsistency.
Bryz doesn't inspire confidence, he makes me as a fan nervous as hell in every game. There isn't a time where I think, the Flyers have this game/ Bryz is a rock out there, and there's no way the other team will beat him!
Those thoughts never happen when it comes to this guy.
I remember a former team mate of Bernie Parent saying that he asked Bernie. " how many goals do we need to get to beat this team?" Bernie responded, "one,maybe two".
Bryzgalov was given a three point cushion against the Penguins last week in the first period, and managed to blow it! Bernie, Pelle, Hexy....wouldn't blow a lead like that.
Bryzgalov makes his fans nervous, so I'm sure his teammates are equally nervous.
It's time for a better back up goalie who could actually be a starting goalie.
It's time for Holmgren to get off his arse and help this team by acquiring a useable back up!
It is the team's fault for the play of our goalie. All the breakdowns and mistakes that result in goals against is blamed on the team, not Bryz. He is our team MVP and has been the best Flyer this year, hands down.

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03-11-2013, 05:12 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Pretty much every goal Miller gave up last night was defensive break down. Using your logic it wasn't his fault.
yea. my big logic. you get what I'm saying tho right? miller makes more and he's been used as an example of what we should have in net and he looks like a human to me. same type of goals goin. so using your logic there's no reason to complain about bryzgalov and blame him for everything on the level you do cause it wouldn't make sense. at all.

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03-11-2013, 05:15 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by FlyingPhilly View Post
It is the team's fault for the play of our goalie. All the breakdowns and mistakes that result in goals against is blamed on the team, not Bryz. He is our team MVP and has been the best Flyer this year, hands down.
nobody says that. thats' your bad interpretation.

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03-11-2013, 05:16 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
yea. my big logic. you get what I'm saying tho right? miller makes more and he's been used as an example of what we should have in net and he looks like a human to me. same type of goals goin. so using your logic there's no reason to complain about bryzgalov and blame him for everything on the level you do cause it wouldn't make sense. at all.
The same TYPE of goals go in, but LESS OF THEM, go in. How you cannot grasp that is beyond me. I don't have a problem with Bryzgalov letting goals like the G goal or the Gags goal in every now and again, but Bryz let's them in a lot more frequently than Miller.

One goalie has a .913 save %, the other has a .899. The guy with the .913 is a vastly superior goalie who is allowing less pucks past, all else equal.

It's pretty simple.

If you tell me Bryz is going to let in only 2 goals per game, I could care less how great or soft the goals are. Bryz could go get a drink during live action and allow 2 goals as long as he shuts it down for the rest of the game. The thing is, that's not what happens. Bryz allows bad / mediocre goals, he allows more of them than the average goalie, and he comes up with less big saves than guys like Miller so he never makes up for it.

I've watched a lot of Miller's games this year. This was a bad game for him, which is the exception, not the rule. Bryz on the other hand has more bad games than good, which is unacceptable and is why at the end of the day, Miller is a vastly superior goaltender.

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03-11-2013, 05:18 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
The same TYPE of goals go in, but LESS OF THEM, go in. How you cannot grasp that is beyond me. I don't have a problem with Bryzgalov letting goals like the G goal or the Gags goal in every now and again, but Bryz let's them in a lot more frequently than Miller.

One goalie has a .913 save %, the other has a .899. The guy with the .913 is a vastly superior goalie who is allowing less pucks past, all else equal.

It's pretty simple.
based off your assumption i guess that even if these two guys switched teams bryzgalov would still have the same save perc. and goals against. yea. that is pretty "simple".

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03-11-2013, 05:24 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
yea. my big logic. you get what I'm saying tho right? miller makes more and he's been used as an example of what we should have in net and he looks like a human to me. same type of goals goin. so using your logic there's no reason to complain about bryzgalov and blame him for everything on the level you do cause it wouldn't make sense. at all.
Miller: .914
Bryz: .899

Both played all but 2 games for their teams. Miller plays for the ****ier team of the two. Theres a big difference between them two and stats prove that.

Miller had a pretty bad game and still almost outplayed Bryz. His 2 saves on the opening sequence would have both ended up in the back of the net if that was Bryz playing for them.

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03-11-2013, 05:26 PM
  #911
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nobody says that. thats' your bad interpretation.


Some have been saying this, pretty cut and clear. I think someone should go back and read some posts again.


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03-11-2013, 05:27 PM
  #912
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based off your assumption i guess that even if these two guys switched teams bryzgalov would still have the same save perc. and goals against. yea. that is pretty "simple".
Actually, Bryz would probably have even worse numbers playing for Buffalo.

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03-11-2013, 05:31 PM
  #913
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Having a .914 SV% and a 2.83 GAA is the definition of getting no help.

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03-11-2013, 05:32 PM
  #914
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Some have been saying this, pretty cut and clear. I think someone should go back and read some posts again.

the bernie dude said that he thought he has been one of our best players since the beginning of the year, i agree. mvp beginning of the season but now has dropped off a little as guys like voracek, simmonds were leading us in our more recent wins. i agree. theres no "hands down" and all the goals are the teams fault. but there's just....ah whatever i don't care. you guys keep hating our goalie. have fun. i don't. i'm happy we have him. i'm not happy with the way we've been playing tho and i don't blame him. that's as cut and dried as i can get. you need to simplify things down to a level where everything is one guys fault, do your thing.

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03-11-2013, 05:36 PM
  #915
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SA/G
1. STL - 23.3
2. LAK - 24.2
3. NJD - 25.5
4. MTL - 26.6
5. CHI - 26.9
-. PHI - 26.9

GA/G
30. FLA - 3.73
29. NYI - 3.38
28. CGY - 3.30
27. TBL - 3.12
--. BUF - 3.12
25. STL - 3.04
24. WAS - 3.00
--. PHI - 3.00

Same problem. Another year. We can't be top 5 in shots against and bottom 10 in goals against every single season.

2011-12 : Bryzgalov
SA/G - 7th : 28.4
GA/G - 20th : 2.74

2010-11 : Bobrovsky/Boucher
SA/G - 13th : 30.1
GA/G - 11th : 2.63

2009-10 : Leighton/Emery/Boucher
SA/G - 5th : 28.6
GA/G - 15th : 2.71

2008-09 : Biron
SA/G - 25th : 32.5
GA/G - 16th : 2.83

2007-08 : Biron
SA/G - 27th : 31.8
GA/G - 18th : 2.77

If I can get those results from Leighton at 0.900m/year, why am I paying Bryzgalov 5.67m/year?


Last edited by CS: 03-11-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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03-11-2013, 05:37 PM
  #916
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the bernie dude said that he thought he has been one of our best players since the beginning of the year, i agree. mvp beginning of the season but now has dropped off a little as guys like voracek, simmonds were leading us in our more recent wins. i agree. theres no "hands down" and all the goals are the teams fault. but there's just....ah whatever i don't care. you guys keep hating our goalie. have fun. i don't. i'm happy we have him. i'm not happy with the way we've been playing tho and i don't blame him. that's as cut and dried as i can get. you need to simplify things down to a level where everything is one guys fault, do your thing.
*Sigh* Almost 8 full threads later and funghoul and BP1974 still don't understand that we're not blaming one person, we're simply arguing that this one person SHARES in the blame and that he's played very poorly for our hockey team.

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03-11-2013, 05:38 PM
  #917
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the bernie dude said that he thought he has been one of our best players since the beginning of the year, i agree. mvp beginning of the season but now has dropped off a little as guys like voracek, simmonds were leading us in our more recent wins. i agree. theres no "hands down" and all the goals are the teams fault. but there's just....ah whatever i don't care. you guys keep hating our goalie. have fun. i don't. i'm happy we have him. i'm not happy with the way we've been playing tho and i don't blame him. that's as cut and dried as i can get. you need to simplify things down to a level where everything is one guys fault, do your thing.
That's the difference between the perceived Bryz supportes and the perceived Bryz opponents: the 'opponents' are arguing that the entire team has played terrible hockey overall, including Bryz. It's not about blaming one person, but it also isn't about absolving one person for their role in this ****storm of a season.

Everyone's (well, not everyone) had their strong moments and their weak moments. Bryz had a very good January, but has been pretty pedestrian since then. The only guy that has been consistent in a positive sense from the start of the season is Grossmann.

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03-11-2013, 05:39 PM
  #918
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If I can get those results from Leighton at 0.900m/year, why am I paying Bryzgalov 5.67m/year?
Because you're a nice guy?

Because trips to space are expensive and you support cosmonaut Bryzgalov's quest to take a trip to space as a private citizen?

Because Bryz is the most interesting man in the world?

Yeah, I got nothing. No good reason to explain it.

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03-11-2013, 05:45 PM
  #919
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flyers need to play a defense first game. like it or not we can't have quick, lundqvist, rinne, rask, miller or any of those guys unless the flyers draft them. bryz obviously isn't getting it done but the fact that the team hasn't change at all for years now is ridiculous when this has been a glaring problem. doing the something over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

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03-11-2013, 05:50 PM
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That's the difference between the perceived Bryz supportes and the perceived Bryz opponents: the 'opponents' are arguing that the entire team has played terrible hockey overall, including Bryz. It's not about blaming one person, but it also isn't about absolving one person for their role in this ****storm of a season.

Everyone's (well, not everyone) had their strong moments and their weak moments. Bryz had a very good January, but has been pretty pedestrian since then. The only guy that has been consistent in a positive sense from the start of the season is Grossmann.
oh yea. cause its been that innocent. come on. there's some straight crazy hatred for bryzgalov. but I'm not gonna deny, i obviously do think he's one of our best players. i think the team in front has some crazy holes to fill and a suspect game plan at this point.

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03-11-2013, 05:52 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
flyers need to play a defense first game. like it or not we can't have quick, lundqvist, rinne, rask, miller or any of those guys unless the flyers draft them. bryz obviously isn't getting it done but the fact that the team hasn't change at all for years now is ridiculous when this has been a glaring problem. doing the something over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
Our defense is top 10 in the NHL.

Our goaltending is bottom 10 in the NHL.

That's with Bryzgalov and without Pronger.

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03-11-2013, 05:53 PM
  #922
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flyers need to play a defense first game. like it or not we can't have quick, lundqvist, rinne, rask, miller or any of those guys unless the flyers draft them. bryz obviously isn't getting it done but the fact that the team hasn't change at all for years now is ridiculous when this has been a glaring problem. doing the something over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
The thing is, their defense isn't even that bad.

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03-11-2013, 05:53 PM
  #923
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flyers need to play a defense first game. like it or not we can't have quick, lundqvist, rinne, rask, miller or any of those guys unless the flyers draft them. bryz obviously isn't getting it done but the fact that the team hasn't change at all for years now is ridiculous when this has been a glaring problem. doing the something over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
We didn't/aren't doing the same thing over and over again. For many years, we tried to get by with excellent forwards/D and a mediocre (but cheap) veteran starting goalie. We had some serious success with that, but it wasn't enough, so we changed our strategy and brought in a young promising Russian Goalie Prospect(Bob). That worked out even better in the regular season, but we failed in the post-season again, so we shifted strategies yet again. We shipped off 2 franchise cornerstones at forward and acquired an expensive franchise goalie, who is currently playing at a level far lower than that Russian prospect did and right around the same as our cheap mediocre veterans did.

To argue that we've been doing the same thing over and over again is moronic. We actually tried some new things, they haven't worked. It's time to amnesty Bryz and move on.

But of course you're going to suggest changing the system to suit Bryz, because that's just so logical for a Bryz defender. "Our franchise goalie isn't living up to his contract, we could amnesty him, or we could drastically change our entire system to a more defensive system in an effort to shelter him while still paying him like an elite goalie"

"Let's go with option #2"

If a single lightbulb goes out at house, do you rip up the entire ceiling and change out the entire lighting/electrical system at your home? And then try to put that same defective lightbulb back into your new lighting system? Because that's essentially what you're advocating doing here w/ Bryz.

"It's not his fault, it's the system!!!"

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03-11-2013, 05:55 PM
  #924
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oh yea. cause its been that innocent. come on. there's some straight crazy hatred for bryzgalov.
there really is. i will say that he has been downright bad a times recently be he really was one of our best players through the first 10 or so games. as soon as he slumps he gets much more hate then any other flyer in recent memory. news flash guys, the whole team sucks not just bryz. and i would argue there are players that have sucked more **cough**Briere**cough**.

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03-11-2013, 05:56 PM
  #925
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there really is. i will say that he has been downright bad a times recently be he really was one of our best players through the first 10 or so games. as soon as he slumps he gets much more hate then any other flyer in recent memory. news flash guys, the whole team sucks not just bryz. and i would argue there are players that have sucked more **cough**Briere**cough**.
Briere sucks, but the impact of a left winger sucking is far less than that of a goalie sucking.

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