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All Encompassing Tanking/Rebuilding/Selling at Deadline Thread 3.0

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Old
03-10-2013, 04:05 PM
  #26
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Even without tanking this year, we have 6 picks in the first three rounds. We can afford to spend maybe ONE on a rental for a tough defenceman or forward "rental" with maybe even a chance of re-signing next year.

I wouldn't spend more than that this year, unless it is a roster player going UFA like Ryder or Nokes or Armstrong.

Even though theoretically one could pull the trigger on a trade involving one the captains or assistant captains, it is unlikely to happen on a team where the chemistry is good and there is a hope for a long playoff run. This might be the breakout year BEFORE the Cup year, like Pittsburgh and Chicago each one had, but most teams need that steppiong stone, and need to have vets around who know how to win so that they can teach the kids. Otherwise, you have the Islanders or Oilers, teams that always have good young talent but no vets to shape them.
I'd just rather we keep those picks. And I'd love to add a 1st if we can. Best draft in a long time and it could really help us to land one more great young player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLFutureGuy3 View Post
I have always been on DAChampion's line of thinking as well.

I had no idea we would be first in the east this year. Frankly, anyone who tells me they predicted the Canadiens would be first in the east is lying.
Some probably did. Then again those that did predict us being in first every year.

Seriously, if I had been given only two choices in a poll, I'd have predicted we'd be in last rather than first. I figured maybe we're a playoff team but we've been so much better than I ever thought we'd be.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 03-10-2013 at 04:11 PM.
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03-10-2013, 04:10 PM
  #27
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Well this thread has taken quite the upbeat positive beat I too was in favour of a tank - it was personal, I`m away offshore meaning I cant watch games. I would prefer to come back for the new season with a kickass first rounder. Hard to say I`m disappointed though

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Old
03-10-2013, 04:17 PM
  #28
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Remember, we are still in a rebuild/retool mode. You don't go from last place to a contender overnight. Are we in first? yes, are we likely to make the playoffs? yes. Are we cup contenders? depends how much of a homer you are. I don't believe we are a cup contender (anything can happen, but no one has us pegged to win it).

That being said, we are still in a rebuild/retool mode, remember MB's speech when he took over? This is not the team MB is banking on to become a cup winner or dynasty. The results have been fantastic, but there are still a lot of changes to come. This isn't your typical Edmonton, Columbus or Pittsburgh rebuild. We aren't going to be tanking, we aren't going to be selling. What we will be doing is moving pieces for other pieces. This is a rebuild, or retool, whatever you want to label it.

I wouldn't expect MB to deal for a UFA rental unless he knows he will get to re-sign him. What he may be willing to do is sacrifice a pick (or 2?) for a player around the age of our core that is under contract.


Last edited by disturbedraven: 03-10-2013 at 04:29 PM.
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Old
03-10-2013, 04:41 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I'd just rather we keep those picks. And I'd love to add a 1st if we can. Best draft in a long time and it could really help us to land one more great young player.

Some probably did. Then again those that did predict us being in first every year.

Seriously, if I had been given only two choices in a poll, I'd have predicted we'd be in last rather than first. I figured maybe we're a playoff team but we've been so much better than I ever thought we'd be.
It's not that surprising, though. We have Price, Subban and Pacioretty still improving yet already very strong at three different positions. We have Markov, Gorges, Gionta and Plekanec as good vets with leadership and a team-first attitude. And we already have four of the kids that we have been drafting/recruiting in the starting lineup, plus another young first-rounder in Eller. Add Desharnais, Prust, Moen, Bouillon and White and that is even more guys who compete every night. Bourque and Ryder may be streaky but can produce and know the league.

This is really a well-rounded team.

We should try to make that first run this year, even if we fall short. The kids need to see the playoff action and if they end up feeling the disappointment of losing, it will make them stronger for the following year, like both Pittsburgh and Chicago did in recent years.

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Old
03-10-2013, 04:55 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Yeah, so I was really wrong.

Wow.

Takes a big man to do this but let me give you a get out of jail card.

No one - not even the posters like me that refused to tank at any cost - could have predicted hiring a Michel Therrien that has learned and matured to such a phenomenal level.

Although I think Prust was an extremely underrated signing, that the two Gallys have infused this team with enthusiasm and that Markov has played better than I hoped for, I have to admit that Michel & his coaching staff are the best thing that happened to this team. And there was no way for you or anyone else to predict we would get such spectacular coaching.

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Old
03-10-2013, 05:14 PM
  #31
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
It's not that surprising, though. We have Price, Subban and Pacioretty still improving yet already very strong at three different positions. We have Markov, Gorges, Gionta and Plekanec as good vets with leadership and a team-first attitude. And we already have four of the kids that we have been drafting/recruiting in the starting lineup, plus another young first-rounder in Eller. Add Desharnais, Prust, Moen, Bouillon and White and that is even more guys who compete every night. Bourque and Ryder may be streaky but can produce and know the league.

This is really a well-rounded team.

We should try to make that first run this year, even if we fall short. The kids need to see the playoff action and if they end up feeling the disappointment of losing, it will make them stronger for the following year, like both Pittsburgh and Chicago did in recent years.
As I said, I think this team will be much better than it is now in two or three years. Galchenyuk will be 22 and guys like Tinordi and Beaudlieu will have a year or two under their belt.

I'm not a big fan of getting rentals this year. I'd rather we go in with what we've got and see how it goes. We aren't at the end of our contending years, we're at the beginning. I'd much rather use those picks ourselves or add to them.

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Old
03-10-2013, 05:33 PM
  #32
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1. This team doesn't have to tank.
2. The rebuilding is already continuing at a good pace.
3. The teams that would want Hab veterans see themselves as contenders and wouldn't have high draft picks to offer in return.The Habs wouldn't get first rounders from Calgary or Florida, for example.
4. The Habs have draft picks to spare, so they could afford to pick up a veteran or two to fill holes, particularly solid veterans who could play for a few seasons with the Habs.

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:16 PM
  #33
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
1. This team doesn't have to tank.
2. The rebuilding is already continuing at a good pace.
3. The teams that would want Hab veterans see themselves as contenders and wouldn't have high draft picks to offer in return.The Habs wouldn't get first rounders from Calgary or Florida, for example.
4. The Habs have draft picks to spare, so they could afford to pick up a veteran or two to fill holes, particularly solid veterans who could play for a few seasons with the Habs.
Calgary I think you could get a first rounder from. Ownership still think they can make the playoffs and are not interested in rebuilding.

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03-10-2013, 07:20 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Calgary I think you could get a first rounder from. Ownership still think they can make the playoffs and are not interested in rebuilding.
The decision around Iginla will tell us everything we need to know about that.

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:57 PM
  #35
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The decision around Iginla will tell us everything we need to know about that.
We already saw it with the ROR offer sheet.

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Old
03-11-2013, 08:38 AM
  #36
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MTL's 1st + Eller + Kristo should be in the ballpark to get Calgary's 1st if we're so inclined

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Old
03-11-2013, 09:03 AM
  #37
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I was one of the guys who thought this team needed retooling. I bumped heads with the likes of DA Champion enough to understand they wanted a rebuild and not a retooling... and I guess I put more emphasis on on ice performances rather than stats.

What I think we can all agree on is that the retooling came from within (Plus Prust). The Gallys being NHL ready, Eller playing lights out both ways, Emelin (I was his biggest detractor) and Diaz becoming legit top 4 D, and Subban proving he can be a 2 way dominant defenceman.

No one saw that coming!

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:10 PM
  #38
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
MTL's 1st + Eller + Kristo should be in the ballpark to get Calgary's 1st if we're so inclined
Maybe it wouldn't be a good idea. At any rate it's too early to say.

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:35 PM
  #39
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DA Champion is good people.

If only he used a word other than "tank".

We are still a couple of trades away from getting there. I feel Bergevin is ready to make a couple pretty soon.

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Old
12-19-2013, 10:08 PM
  #40
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Not saying we should tank, but we should sell some of our midgets at the deadline, we won't win anything in the playoffs with them. (Except Gallgher and Briere, who's a playoff performer)

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Old
12-19-2013, 10:14 PM
  #41
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Wow... blast from the past on this thread.

I'll say the same thing I said during our win streak. Watch the team and see how they do. Then make decisions at the deadline. Are we good enough to "go for it" with a couple of trades? Maybe. But let's wait and see first. If the last few games have been any indication, maybe we should consider being sellers if we really don't think we can make noise in the playoffs.

Its about winning the cup and any moves we make should be with that goal in mind. Unfortunately it doesn't always work that way. Let's just wait and see on this one.

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Old
12-19-2013, 10:20 PM
  #42
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Old
12-19-2013, 10:45 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by WHATaboutLOVE View Post
Not saying we should tank, but we should sell some of our midgets at the deadline, we won't win anything in the playoffs with them. (Except Gallgher and Briere, who's a playoff performer)
Yeah, I can already see all other GMs drooling at the thought: "we need to find a way to get smaller for the playoffs."

The best time to sell off smurfs is ... year round, any time you can move one, you do it. Don't get tempted by extending smurfs with expiring contracts (a gift of the Gods, don't ruin it). And never grant a long-term deal to a smurf. Small players need short contracts just like Hobbits need their tiny shire -- that is, if you are absolutely compelled to sign one in the first place. Just wait a little before committing, the urge might dissipate.

A smurf includes anyone who plays small or who owns the supernatural ability to trigger the Cloak of Invisibility (patent pending), regardless of their physical size. Bourque is just another smurf.

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Old
12-20-2013, 07:04 AM
  #44
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I'm not saying tank or anything, I think it is clear we are a play-off team in the East. That speaks more to the futility of teams in the East rather than the quality of our team.

However, we have to have a long term plan and if there is offers out there for Gionta, DD, Briere, Diaz, Bouillon, then you take them. I doubt there is much interest out there but even late round picks have more value to us than these guys going forward.

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Old
12-20-2013, 08:11 AM
  #45
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Habs need to add power, firestarter and toughness it's clear DAMN! clear

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Old
12-20-2013, 09:11 AM
  #46
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In the best world next year:

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($0.925m) /
Lars Eller ($3.500m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.685m)
Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Michael Bournival ($0.660m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Travis Moen ($1.850m)
Ryan White ($0.950m)
DEFENSEMEN
P.K. Subban ($8.000m) / Andrei Markov ($5.750m)
Alexei Emelin ($4.100m) /
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / Jarred Tinordi ($0.870m)
Davis Drewiske ($0.638m) / Douglas Murray ($1.500m)
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.400m)
BUYOUTS
Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m)
Scott Gomez ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $56,560,833; BONUSES: $2,907,500
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $14,539,167


We just have to fill the gaps... but again it's in the best possible scenario...

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Old
12-20-2013, 09:17 AM
  #47
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We can't tank the East is awful and the team is too good. If we were in the West, we'd be about where Winnipeg or maybe Phoenix is close but out of a playoff spot. Then you could talk about tanking, but we can compete in the East for a top 6 spot.

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Old
12-20-2013, 09:22 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
In the best world next year:

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($0.925m) /
Lars Eller ($3.500m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.685m)
Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Michael Bournival ($0.660m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Travis Moen ($1.850m)
Ryan White ($0.950m)
DEFENSEMEN
P.K. Subban ($8.000m) / Andrei Markov ($5.750m)
Alexei Emelin ($4.100m) /
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / Jarred Tinordi ($0.870m)
Davis Drewiske ($0.638m) / Douglas Murray ($1.500m)
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.400m)
BUYOUTS
Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m)
Scott Gomez ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $56,560,833; BONUSES: $2,907,500
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $14,539,167


We just have to fill the gaps... but again it's in the best possible scenario...
Humm a lineup with Bourque isn't called a "best possible scenario". Also, we need to upgrade on Gorges or Emelin...

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Old
12-20-2013, 09:29 AM
  #49
HCH
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Yeah, so I was really wrong.

Wow.


Our prospects such as Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, Ellis, Pateryn, Holland, Kristo, Collberg can now be brought along more slowly, in a winning culture, which is in contrast to the Edmonton model. Further, we're in a better position to improve via trades. We're winning because our players are doing well, which means many of them have a higher trade value. Acquiring an impact forward is as such, not a ludicrous proposition.
Great post... I see only one small error but probably more of an oversight than an error

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Old
12-20-2013, 09:30 AM
  #50
HCH
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Humm a lineup with Bourque isn't called a "best possible scenario". Also, we need to upgrade on Gorges or Emelin...
It would be helpful to upgrade all of our players... I think Gorges and Emelin are the least of our worries at the moment.

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