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Old
03-11-2013, 03:11 PM
  #326
Hackett
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And I personnally hope that on the contrary, Cole's move is also a sign that Gionta could be moved as well. If the salary cap is indeed a reason for Cole's move, it has to be a reason for moving Gio. Obviously not for a 7th rounder. But you can find a way to make somewhat of a similar type of trade.
I don't think Gio has the same value as Cole did. The contract is similar, but Gio is much smaller, and these guys tend to be less sought after. Plus, Cole was coming off a career year while Gio is coming off of a plague of injuries.

Given that I think he will be difficult to move, and that I believe MB is satisfied for now with his cap flexibility, I don't think he's going anywhere this season at least.

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03-11-2013, 04:26 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Personnaly, I wanted Gionta traded (and still want it) simply because it is better to trade a player one year too soon than one year too late.

Come the deadline, he can still bring back a pretty good return.
I have defended and will continue to defend Gionta on this team this year for his effort and now his production.

With that said, I agree with your post. This is the perfect season to trade Gionta. He's scoring goals and performing......and we have Gallagher and Desharnais.

Use Gionta in a trade to beef up the forward position.

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:56 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I have defended and will continue to defend Gionta on this team this year for his effort and now his production.

With that said, I agree with your post. This is the perfect season to trade Gionta. He's scoring goals and performing......and we have Gallagher and Desharnais.

Use Gionta in a trade to beef up the forward position.
When you talk about trading Gionta you can't just look at asset mangement. He is an important part of the fabric of the team and obviously plays a big role in the room.

If you trade him for a bigger and younger player you're probably sacrificing skill and losing a lot in the room, very risky with the way the team is playing and woth young guys just breaking in the NHL. Edmonton is a perfect example of how important quality vets and leadership is.

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03-11-2013, 04:58 PM
  #329
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I don't see MB trading Gio, whose our captain, mid-season. I just don't. I can definitely see him being traded at the draft. Gio's recent production now means he would be on a 28 goal pace over a full season, which is basically what he gets every year except for last year when he was injured.

I think with his leadership skills, work ethic, and ability to still put up 20 goals a season means that Gio shouldn't be that hard to move. There are a lot of teams who need wingers.

Not sure what we'd get for him but I'm pretty sure a 2nd plus a player would not be off the wall.

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03-11-2013, 05:20 PM
  #330
SouthernHab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
When you talk about trading Gionta you can't just look at asset mangement. He is an important part of the fabric of the team and obviously plays a big role in the room.

If you trade him for a bigger and younger player you're probably sacrificing skill and losing a lot in the room, very risky with the way the team is playing and woth young guys just breaking in the NHL. Edmonton is a perfect example of how important quality vets and leadership is.
Prust and Plekanec. Price is now a veteran as well.

Veteran leadership right there.

Hockey players are like stocks. You want to sell them after you have made a nice profit and the stock is still rising.

Sadly, we may not get anything for Gio if we wait another year.

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Old
03-11-2013, 05:22 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Prust and Plekanec. Price is now a veteran as well.

Veteran leadership right there.

Hockey players are like stocks. You want to sell them after you have made a nice profit and the stock is still rising.

Sadly, we may not get anything for Gio if we wait another year.
If your team is playing well why would you sell? If you trade Gionta you then have to go out and replace him, probably by a lesser player. Him being here next year buys another year for LeBlanc or Kristo to be ready.

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03-11-2013, 05:28 PM
  #332
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You can't trade Gionta right now unless what the Habs get back make them SIGNIFICANTLY STRONGER (so he'd have to be a part of a package of a mega deal).

If he just bring is ancillary parts, it will more likely be a detriment to the team chemistry.

At this point, stay the course and see what happens in the playoffs with Gionta.

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:21 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
.

I know a couple of guys here jump on ridiculously small samples to make a point, but Gionta WAS pathetic and was NOT producing offensively earlier this season.

3 goals and 5 assists for 8 points in 18 games is decent numbers in your opinion, for a guy who is paid 5 millions per year? .
so 18 games is a good sample size, good to know. Not to burst your playsation GM stat projection, but last time I checked we played 26 games, the stats are there.

A lot of players had a bad start/bad stretch and are playing fine now . If you can cherry pick stats about gionta having a pathetic start offensively, look up desharnais, cole, maxpac... and tell me what you see. they all had their issues. and not just about the stats, about their play.

MT isn't too scared to throw gionta out there, being the 2nd most used forward this year on a conference leading team, and 9G in 26 games ... not sure the word pathetic applies here.

I just think that because you don't see him as part of the plan for next year and that you're obsessed by trading him, you see all the negative x10 and you won't see what he does well. That's exactly why you can't be happy that he scored 6 goals in 7 games. keep on hating. Its okay if you think he's overpaid, he is ... but don't tweak facts to try and convince other people he's a pathetic hockey player. A lot of people want to trade him because of his salary, and its a perfectly legitimate position, although trading your captain at the deadline is probably the dumbest thing to do if your idea was to go deep in the playoffs.

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03-11-2013, 06:30 PM
  #334
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I don't see why anybody would even consider a new captain right now. As other mentioned, when Gionta leave, let's ask the question but for now, he is the Habs captain and a good one.

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03-11-2013, 07:06 PM
  #335
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Not a huge gionta fan, I never thought he should have been captain, but I can't foresee a team first in the east moving him, although I would consider it for the right return. I just don't see it as being feasible now.

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03-11-2013, 08:11 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
so 18 games is a good sample size, good to know. Not to burst your playsation GM stat projection, but last time I checked we played 26 games, the stats are there.

A lot of players had a bad start/bad stretch and are playing fine now . If you can cherry pick stats about gionta having a pathetic start offensively, look up desharnais, cole, maxpac... and tell me what you see. they all had their issues. and not just about the stats, about their play.

MT isn't too scared to throw gionta out there, being the 2nd most used forward this year on a conference leading team, and 9G in 26 games ... not sure the word pathetic applies here.

I just think that because you don't see him as part of the plan for next year and that you're obsessed by trading him, you see all the negative x10 and you won't see what he does well. That's exactly why you can't be happy that he scored 6 goals in 7 games. keep on hating. Its okay if you think he's overpaid, he is ... but don't tweak facts to try and convince other people he's a pathetic hockey player. A lot of people want to trade him because of his salary, and its a perfectly legitimate position, although trading your captain at the deadline is probably the dumbest thing to do if your idea was to go deep in the playoffs.
Whatever floats your boat... It goes back to last season as well.

I never said anything about trading him at the deadline. This has to be an option you look at in the summer though, as he's highly unefficient on the forecheck within Therrien's system, and he's also the third wheel in a team already counting on two players that are way too undersized.

Then again, when did I say he was a pathetic hockey player? He DID play pathetic hockey in the first few weeks of the season, and lately has been going to the net again. It's why he's been more productive. It's also the only aspect of the game where he's effective at this point of his career. And his attempts at forechecking ARE pathetic.

In a division as physical as the NE, we need to give his spot to a guy who plays a tough game and is always going to be in your face. It's something we're lacking out there on our top-6.

Perry, Clarkson, Clowe, I don't care. Just give me one.

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03-11-2013, 08:22 PM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
If your team is playing well why would you sell? If you trade Gionta you then have to go out and replace him, probably by a lesser player. Him being here next year buys another year for LeBlanc or Kristo to be ready.
Guess I wasnt clear enough. My fault since I didnt say to trade him after the season is over and not during the season. Yes it would be too disruptive to deal a Captain during the season.

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Old
03-11-2013, 08:25 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
In his worst games this year I felt he was still one of the best to apply puck pressure and cause turnovers,
And I choose to disagree with this based on the fact that he was mostly losing all of his 1 on 1 battles. That while he did apply pressure, he wasn't getting the best of it. And that while he never floated, his small fast feet wasn't delivering as much as his movement pretended to do. That's why it's most difficult to "bash" a guy like that 'cause you always feel that he's always working hard. Which he does. But in his case...it's not about floating. It's not about not working hard enough. It's about working better. It's about using your smarts to outwit the opponent since you can't physically matched them. He wasn't doing it before. Looks more like he's doing now.

I still believe that in a longer season but mostly in the playoffs, we don't have the right mix just yet. We are not physical enough on D and up front and that DOESN'T mean that we have to lose the talent to get the grit. Means that with time and appropriate picks and trades, we need to be bigger all around and in the case of Gionta...while it doesn't seem to be NOW, the guy is not going to have his career years in the future. We need to be proactive just like we were with Cole. Maybe not this year....but we can't wait an eternity...you need to takes decisions when you actually have the upper hand. Enough with the trades when "you have to" or when they aren't worth anything...

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03-11-2013, 08:39 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And I choose to disagree with this based on the fact that he was mostly losing all of his 1 on 1 battles. That while he did apply pressure, he wasn't getting the best of it. And that while he never floated, his small fast feet wasn't delivering as much as his movement pretended to do. That's why it's most difficult to "bash" a guy like that 'cause you always feel that he's always working hard. Which he does. But in his case...it's not about floating. It's not about not working hard enough. It's about working better. It's about using your smarts to outwit the opponent since you can't physically matched them. He wasn't doing it before. Looks more like he's doing now.

I still believe that in a longer season but mostly in the playoffs, we don't have the right mix just yet. We are not physical enough on D and up front and that DOESN'T mean that we have to lose the talent to get the grit. Means that with time and appropriate picks and trades, we need to be bigger all around and in the case of Gionta...while it doesn't seem to be NOW, the guy is not going to have his career years in the future. We need to be proactive just like we were with Cole. Maybe not this year....but we can't wait an eternity...you need to takes decisions when you actually have the upper hand. Enough with the trades when "you have to" or when they aren't worth anything...
Pretty much this. His play without the puck is much less effective in a more aggressive system brought in by Therrien, and we need an in your face power forward up front. Gionta, Gallagher and Desharnais is just way too much on one team.

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Old
03-11-2013, 08:58 PM
  #340
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I agree, Gionta is one too many smurfs, but he ain't going anywhere this year, so don't hold your breath.

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03-11-2013, 11:18 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Shame that fans look at contract first, size second and contributions last. Gionta may be overpaid, but he's still a damn good two-way hockey player. He's a big reason for this team's success. Him paired with Plekanec gives the team an excellent shutdown pairing at the forward group. Gionta has always been a streaky scorer, but the thing is, at least when he is not scoring, he's providing a solid two-way game.
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
A lot of people made good points about how he wasn't great early on, but his offensive contribution was still acceptable, and so was his general play. I never got the feeling that he floated ... I appreciated his passing skills early on and I thought he always found a way to get at least 2-3 good scoring chances night in night out. He wasn't dominant, but he was playing a solid 5 on 5 game. people looking back saying he was ''beyond garbage'' is just ridiculous. If you want to label him a 3rd liner its fine, but I'd rather consider him a complete top 9 forward that contributes the way you want him to. In his worst games this year I felt he was still one of the best to apply puck pressure and cause turnovers,
I agree with most of this... but then again, a 5M$ player should be relied upon to provide that kind of impact consistently.

Doesn't always happen, and there are players with bigger contracts who contribute less, that's for sure (we've had 2 of them recently, sadly).

With Cole & his inconsistent ability to deliver at that level gone, keeping Gionta around beyond this year gets noticeably easier. That said, I still think it worthwhile for MB to shop him around in the off season, and if the right deal opens up, pull the trigger.

You can find players who deliver the compete-level & the defensive attributes Gionta brings at a smaller price tag, what drove up his value is the scoring element, so keeping him for 2 more years at 5M$/season without feeling confident that he can consistently deliver in that area opens the door to moving him imo.

Since Ryder arrived, his PP time has decreased, and yet his production has improved... perhaps he wasn't dealing well with the pressure put on him by leading the team in PP time among fwds early in the season, or perhaps (i don't know the numbers on this) he's now found himself used on the 2nd unit, freeing him up from the top-focus of opposing team PK units?


the real clincher, imo, is the impact MT/MB feel Gionta has on the room/with the young players. His work ethic is without question, but on the other hand, can't really ascribe our success this year to his leadership impact without pointing out the conference worst team he captained last year.


will be interesting to see what happens in the summer, but I certainly don't expect to see him moved this season short of a massive collapse by the team in the next few weeks.

Glad that he's finally starting to put some points on the board to go with the consistently solid performance in other areas!

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03-12-2013, 12:17 AM
  #342
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I've never been a fan of Gionta. Doubt Marc Bergevin will trade him before/at the trade dead line this year. Though, he might leave during the summer or maybe next year before/at the trading deadline. I'll be honest, I won't miss him and I think Bergevin won't either.

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03-12-2013, 11:28 AM
  #343
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Looking at the comparables from capgeek the 30+ aged players excluding Hossa and Alfredson since their deals are massively front loaded. We get this list

Havlat
Ribeiro
Connolly
Doan
McDonald
Pominville

Gionta doesn't look out of place in that group of players so why does everyone think he's way overpaid.

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03-12-2013, 12:01 PM
  #344
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I like Gionta, but if we can get an ok return then by all means, it's time to let him go. We hear he is a great leader and he will be tough to replace in the locker room, but we heard that about Gomer too.... Although theyre on different levels, The biggest reason I see in keeping Gionta is to teach Gallagher about being a small guy in the bigs. If the value is close to Gionta, trade him, if he's worth more to us than we can get, keep him

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03-12-2013, 12:35 PM
  #345
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i'd move gionta in the offseason unless he can be part of a package that can bring a significant upgrade

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03-12-2013, 01:43 PM
  #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I don't think Gio has the same value as Cole did. The contract is similar, but Gio is much smaller, and these guys tend to be less sought after. Plus, Cole was coming off a career year while Gio is coming off of a plague of injuries.

Given that I think he will be difficult to move, and that I believe MB is satisfied for now with his cap flexibility, I don't think he's going anywhere this season at least.
I would tend to agree and I would not be surprised to see him back next season if he takes enough of a pay cut to entice management. I really don't see someone giving him anywhere near his current salary unless he really gets hot for the remainder of the season and helps lead the Habs deep into the playoffs.

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03-12-2013, 01:45 PM
  #347
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I'm not too hung up about his salary. I don't care that he's the captain either.

It's the fact that he gets time on the PP and on the Plekanec line offensively. Taking away from guys like Eller, Galchenyuk (who can play wing on a PP if needed).

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03-12-2013, 01:56 PM
  #348
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Maybe Lou in NJ would want him back.... I think MB is always looking to change the style of team from smurfs to a more balanced physical team . So if another opportunity like the Cole deal comes up I could see Gionta gone. Then Deharnais next

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03-12-2013, 01:58 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by AmeriHab View Post
I like Gionta, but if we can get an ok return then by all means, it's time to let him go. We hear he is a great leader and he will be tough to replace in the locker room, but we heard that about Gomer too.... Although theyre on different levels, The biggest reason I see in keeping Gionta is to teach Gallagher about being a small guy in the bigs. If the value is close to Gionta, trade him, if he's worth more to us than we can get, keep him
I don't see any logic in that.

Everything isn't about getting value back. At some point you need to build a culture of hard work, commitment and winning. You don't do that by dumping all your veterans because they are getting older and a bit overpaid.

Gomez was liked in the room but his play was so crappy the last 2 years that moving him had no negative effect. He was going to make 7+ mil cap hit playing 4th line.

I see MB letting Gionta play out his contract here, no way he thinks twice of moving him unless the team ***** the bed next year. He may or may not be re-signed for 14-15.

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03-16-2013, 05:30 AM
  #350
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I would love to see Gionta traded asap.

The longer we wait, the less return we'll get. What desperate, sucker teams are out there?

Maybe Florida, they signed Kovalev after all.


Last edited by bib: 03-16-2013 at 05:39 AM.
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