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The All-Purpose Goaltending Thread #8

View Poll Results: Should we use an amnesty buyout on Bryz?
Hell Yes! 65 72.22%
Hell No! 25 27.78%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-11-2013, 05:58 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
We didn't/aren't doing the same thing over and over again. For many years, we tried to get by with excellent forwards/D and a mediocre (but cheap) veteran starting goalie. We had some serious success with that, but it wasn't enough, so we changed our strategy and brought in a young promising Russian Goalie Prospect(Bob). That worked out even better in the regular season, but we failed in the post-season again, so we shifted strategies yet again. We shipped off 2 franchise cornerstones at forward and acquired an expensive franchise goalie, who is currently playing at a level far lower than that Russian prospect did and right around the same as our cheap mediocre veterans did.

To argue that we've been doing the same thing over and over again is moronic. We actually tried some new things, they haven't worked. It's time to amnesty Bryz and move on.

But of course you're going to suggest changing the system to suit Bryz, because that's just so logical for a Bryz defender. "Our franchise goalie isn't living up to his contract, we could amnesty him, or we could drastically change our entire system to a more defensive system in an effort to shelter him while still paying him like an elite goalie"

"Let's go with option #2"

If a single lightbulb goes out at house, do you rip up the entire ceiling and change out the entire lighting/electrical system at your home? And then try to put that same defective lightbulb back into your new lighting system? Because that's essentially what you're advocating doing here w/ Bryz.

"It's not his fault, it's the system!!!"
i was referring to the flyers system which has been the same since lavy got here. i guess your reading comprehensions skills aren't all that great but maybe you should try a little harder next time before throwing around words like moronic.

ok so don't change the system, amnesty bryz and roll the dice with smith cause that worked so great for the Lightning. my point is you know what has worked for him in the past and there are only question marks out there in viable goaltenders.


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03-11-2013, 05:58 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Briere sucks, but the impact of a left winger sucking is far less than that of a goalie sucking.
absolutely true but he's also eating up 6.5 mil in cap space.

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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Our defense is top 10 in the NHL.

Our goaltending is bottom 10 in the NHL.

That's with Bryzgalov and without Pronger.
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The thing is, their defense isn't even that bad.
i didn't say the defense is bad just that they should play a defense first system. there's a difference. in one you take less offensive chances and often seem to end up as turnovers recently and wind up in the back of the net.

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03-11-2013, 05:59 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
We didn't/aren't doing the same thing over and over again. For many years, we tried to get by with excellent forwards/D and a mediocre (but cheap) veteran starting goalie. We had some serious success with that, but it wasn't enough, so we changed our strategy and brought in a young promising Russian Goalie Prospect(Bob). That worked out even better in the regular season, but we failed in the post-season again, so we shifted strategies yet again. We shipped off 2 franchise cornerstones at forward and acquired an expensive franchise goalie, who is currently playing at a level far lower than that Russian prospect did and right around the same as our cheap mediocre veterans did.

To argue that we've been doing the same thing over and over again is moronic. We actually tried some new things, they haven't worked. It's time to amnesty Bryz and move on.

But of course you're going to suggest changing the system to suit Bryz, because that's just so logical for a Bryz defender. "Our franchise goalie isn't living up to his contract, we could amnesty him, or we could drastically change our entire system to a more defensive system in an effort to shelter him while still paying him like an elite goalie"

"Let's go with option #2"

If a single lightbulb goes out at house, do you rip up the entire ceiling and change out the entire lighting/electrical system at your home? And then try to put that same defective lightbulb back into your new lighting system? Because that's essentially what you're advocating doing here w/ Bryz. you guys claim that your point is the whole team doesn't play well but then you make comments insinuating that if we just changed our goalie we'd be fine.

"It's not his fault, it's the system!!!"
i've seen other goalies blowing that are not bryzgalov in net for us recently. but i guess it don't matter as long as the cap hit is low. your denial that bryz is the only thing wrong with our play is i was gonna say funny but its depressing. you sound like you just read everybody else's posts and regurgitated what they said so you can be on their "side".

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03-11-2013, 06:03 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
i was referring to the flyers system which has been the same since lavy got here. i guess your reading comprehensions skills aren't all that great but maybe you should try a little harder next time before throwing around words like moronic.
I have no problem with a system change, as long as we're throwing Bryz out with the system. To bring him back with that contract is just silly, as is your implication that Bryz's stats are bad solely because of the system. Any goalie can do well in a sheltered defensive system. Bryz was paid the big bucks because he was supposed to be a good goalie who could perform in an offensive-minded system. Clearly he was vastly overrated, clearly he isn't playing up to his contract, clearly he needs to be bought out or traded (good luck there ).

You want to blame the system, that's fine by me, I actually agree with you that it's grown tired but Laviolette's system has had a lot more success than any team w/ Bryz as their starting goalie and that's a fact.

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03-11-2013, 06:05 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
oh yea. cause its been that innocent. come on. there's some straight crazy hatred for bryzgalov. but I'm not gonna deny, i obviously do think he's one of our best players. i think the team in front has some crazy holes to fill and a suspect game plan at this point.
There's always a scapegoat, especially if that person (a) has a high contract, and (b) was expected (by the fanbase) to be some kind of saviour.

It's been a vocal minority that has placed blame specifically on Bryz alone.

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03-11-2013, 06:07 PM
  #931
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Briere isn't really struggling. It is the system and his linemates. It is time to play a system that he can excel in. It is also time to get him better linemates. Please don't say anything negative about him, he is a victim of circumstance and truly is the player he always was. Keep believing!

:sarc asm:

EDIT: Oh I forgot, also ignore his cap hit, he is a good hockey player. That is what we are really arguing about!

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03-11-2013, 06:09 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Briere isn't really struggling. It is the system and his linemates. It is time to play a system that he can excel in. It is also time to get him better linemates. Please don't say anything negative about him, he is a victim of circumstance and truly is the player he always was. Keep believing!

:sarc asm:
You forgot to add that he's worried about losing his job to one of the younger players.

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03-11-2013, 06:10 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
You forgot to add that he's threatened by the younger players to lose his job.
Oh ya, trade B. Schenn to Columbus for their 2nd rounder.

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03-11-2013, 06:10 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
I have no problem with a system change, as long as we're throwing Bryz out with the system. To bring him back with that contract is just silly, as is your implication that Bryz's stats are bad solely because of the system. Any goalie can do well in a sheltered defensive system. Bryz was paid the big bucks because he was supposed to be a good goalie who could perform in an offensive-minded system. Clearly he was vastly overrated, clearly he isn't playing up to his contract, clearly he needs to be bought out or traded (good luck there ).

You want to blame the system, that's fine by me, I actually agree with you that it's grown tired but Laviolette's system has had a lot more success than any team w/ Bryz as their starting goalie and that's a fact.
i think it's pretty evident by now that he can't succeed in this system. that's not saying the system is bad in fact it is saying bryz kinda sucks cause he can only be good when the team is playing one way. but who exactly are you gonna put in there and expect to win? leighton? leighton can't play well in any system lets be real.

after the type of seasons smith has had recently he'll be getting a significant raise this offseason and i'm not sold on him anyway as he was atrocious in TB as well as this year (he's actually been worse then bryz). howard isn't leaving detroit and everyone else is old/injury prone.

i would have no problem amnestying bryz if there was anyone else i had any confidence that could do any better available.

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03-11-2013, 06:15 PM
  #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Briere isn't really struggling. It is the system and his linemates. It is time to play a system that he can excel in. It is also time to get him better linemates. Please don't say anything negative about him, he is a victim of circumstance and truly is the player he always was. Keep believing!

:sarc asm:

EDIT: Oh I forgot, also ignore his cap hit, he is a good hockey player. That is what we are really arguing about!
go through my posts and i've said bryz has been bad and doesn't have any excuse to be this bad. so i'm not sure what this is in reference to as i was the only one who brought up briere. and again i didn't say anything about cap hit.

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03-11-2013, 06:17 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
There's always a scapegoat, especially if that person (a) has a high contract, and (b) was expected (by the fanbase) to be some kind of saviour.

It's been a vocal minority that has placed blame specifically on Bryz alone.
alright. fine. but dude above you was just pointing out exactly why i think a lot of people misunderstood what happened here with getting bryzgalov. the 2010 finals team was a bryzgalov away from the cup. that we know. but to get him we gutted that team. traded away one of the best two way players in the game and a true top NHL goal scorer bringing in a bunch of green young ins and also dealt with a delapitated defense especially with pronger, our best player and the center of our team going down forever. it was unrealistic to think you could stick bryzgalov(or any goalie) in there and he'd cover all mistakes. that contract sucks. i agree that it does. it was too long. but it was long to circumvent. even so we gave him too much. he never won a vezina or cup (as a starter). but there's a lot more goin on than hm not living up to unrealistic expectations. thats what drives me nuts. people clinging to that horse poo that he"s not doin "this" and "that" wah! he plays every game and he's pretty solid regardless of what a couple dudes on here say. thats sorta what we were partially lookin for. I don't think anyone questions who our starter is anymore. thats what we were trying to do. but his year is different. the team in front is not playing consistent hockey. goalies always are the scapegoat tho. its just an annoyingly easy scapegoat.

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03-11-2013, 06:19 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
go through my posts and i've said bryz has been bad and doesn't have any excuse to be this bad. so i'm not sure what this is in reference to as i was the only one who brought up briere. and again i didn't say anything about cap hit.
This was not directed at you at all nor did I read anything you wrote about Briere. This is just a summary of the standard in this thread.

I also forgot to add in the tired crap.

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03-11-2013, 06:22 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
This was not directed at you at all nor did I read anything you wrote about Briere. This is just a summary of the standard in this thread.

I also forgot to add in the tired crap.
fair enough

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03-11-2013, 06:22 PM
  #939
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i didn't say the defense is bad just that they should play a defense first system. there's a difference. in one you take less offensive chances and often seem to end up as turnovers recently and wind up in the back of the net.
Because Bryzgalov sucks again.

He had his month at the start of this season, just like he had his month last March.

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03-11-2013, 06:23 PM
  #940
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This was not directed at you at all nor did I read anything you wrote about Briere. This is just a summary of the standard in this thread.

I also forgot to add in the tired crap.
You forgot to add 24/7. Man there's a lot of excuses out there for this guy.

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03-11-2013, 06:24 PM
  #941
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Because Bryzgalov sucks again.

He had his month at the start of this season, just like he had his month last March.
yes he does suck right now. no argument here. but less quality opportunities from turnovers and what not should result in less goals am i wrong?

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03-11-2013, 06:26 PM
  #942
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You forgot to add 24/7. Man there's a lot of excuses out there for this guy.
weight gain as well. and foot injury in the playoffs

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03-11-2013, 06:26 PM
  #943
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Because Bryzgalov sucks again.

He had his month at the start of this season, just like he had his month last March.
He has now been here for about 41 weeks worth of NHL play. He has been consistently good for about 6 weeks.

85% of his time here has been underwhelming. It's becoming increasingly likely that he simply isn't the goaltending solution. It's about time to start looking for the next solution.

Maybe Bob becomes our new Parent. He goes to another franchise, learns to play, and then we bring him back and he's dominant. I can dream.

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03-11-2013, 06:27 PM
  #944
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yes he does suck right now. no argument here. but less quality opportunities from turnovers and what not should result in less goals am i wrong?
We could stand better puck-movement / outlets, but realistically we're already a very good defense. Complaints about Coburn not playing up to last year's standards or Timonen losing a step are really just nitpicking at this point.

Our defense is very good. Not perfect by no means, but is much better than they are bad. Bryzgalov is dragging this team down financially and between the pipes. We can pay any scrub goalie to do that. Hell, Bobrovsky could've done that, and we would not hate him for not giving a **** because Bob actually gave a ****. Bryzgalov gives no ****s and saves no pucks.

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03-11-2013, 06:28 PM
  #945
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yes he does suck right now. no argument here. but less quality opportunities from turnovers and what not should result in less goals am i wrong?
It also results in less scoring. So if he does continue to struggle, there won't be as much goal scoring to compensate. That is the problem LA has any time their goalies hit a cold streak.

Edit: I'm also not sure we have the players suited for a system like that. Guys like Giroux, Voracek, and Simmonds look best suited for what we've got now. They aren't fantastic defensively, so stifling their offensive potential to make them play defense has potential to fail. Dale Hunter tried something similar last year, and the results were bad for a while. There's also the Briere issue...and Gagne looks a lot more reluctant to do hard defensive work along the boards than he used to.


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03-11-2013, 06:29 PM
  #946
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Maybe Bob becomes our new Parent. He goes to another franchise, learns to play, and then we bring him back and he's dominant. I can dream.
there will never be another Parent. he was insane

i'm too young to of had the opportunity to watch him play live (besides the alumni game) but from the few old games i've seen plus the clips/highlights floating around he was something else. i doubt the flyers ever have such quality goal tending again.

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03-11-2013, 06:31 PM
  #947
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there will never be another Parent. he was insane

i'm too young to of had the opportunity to watch him play live (besides the alumni game) but from the few old games i've seen plus the clips/highlights floating around he was something else. i doubt the flyers ever have such quality goal tending again.
I won't say never, but he was a rare talent. Kick save on a slapshot taken from 20 feet out? No problem.

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03-11-2013, 06:33 PM
  #948
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It also results in less scoring. So if he does continue to struggle, there won't be as much goal scoring to compensate. That is the problem LA has any time their goalies hit a cold streak.

Edit: I'm also not sure we have the players suited for a system like that. Guys like Giroux, Voracek, and Simmonds look best suited for what we've got now. They aren't fantastic defensively, so stifling their offensive potential to make them play defense has potential to fail. Dale Hunter tried something similar last year, and the results were bad for a while.
yeah i was gonna bring up the caps but i think the flyers are a little better off personnel wise so i don't think it's a good comparison.

sure scoring may be a problem but you have to try something imo. this season isn't completely out of reach so i wouldn't suggest making a transition now but it's pretty clear something needs to change and i doubt bob or smith fix our problems next year.

may be the flyers can find a happy medium

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03-11-2013, 06:38 PM
  #949
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We could stand better puck-movement / outlets, but realistically we're already a very good defense. Complaints about Coburn not playing up to last year's standards or Timonen losing a step are really just nitpicking at this point.

Our defense is very good. Not perfect by no means, but is much better than they are bad. Bryzgalov is dragging this team down financially and between the pipes. We can pay any scrub goalie to do that. Hell, Bobrovsky could've done that, and we would not hate him for not giving a **** because Bob actually gave a ****. Bryzgalov gives no ****s and saves no pucks.
i hated the bob trade from the beginning but i was optimistic about bryz. it hasn't worked out but i think the flyers can afford cap wise to give bryz one more full season to work things out. if it doesn't work you amnesty him next season. but some people like to blame him for everything it seems like around here. when he was actually playing well like the first 10 or so games we could of easily picked up another two wins or 4 points if the rest of the team didn't suck (not the entire team but most of it). then we'd actually be in like 7th. i'm not making excuses for him, he sucks right now and needs to be better but there are other things to consider when looking at the teams current situation if assigning blame.

Quote:
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I won't say never, but he was a rare talent. Kick save on a slapshot taken from 20 feet out? No problem.
you're right never is a bit ridiculous to say.

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03-11-2013, 06:49 PM
  #950
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
i hated the bob trade from the beginning but i was optimistic about bryz. it hasn't worked out but i think the flyers can afford cap wise to give bryz one more full season to work things out. if it doesn't work you amnesty him next season. but some people like to blame him for everything it seems like around here. when he was actually playing well like the first 10 or so games we could of easily picked up another two wins or 4 points if the rest of the team didn't suck (not the entire team but most of it). then we'd actually be in like 7th. i'm not making excuses for him, he sucks right now and needs to be better but there are other things to consider when looking at the teams current situation if assigning blame.
Don't we only get amnesty options this offseason.

I don't think it can be used afterwards.

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