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The All-Purpose Goaltending Thread #8

View Poll Results: Should we use an amnesty buyout on Bryz?
Hell Yes! 65 72.22%
Hell No! 25 27.78%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-11-2013, 05:50 PM
  #951
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Don't we only get amnesty options this offseason.

I don't think it can be used afterwards.
No. This offseason and next.

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03-11-2013, 05:52 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Don't we only get amnesty options this offseason.

I don't think it can be used afterwards.
i've been under the impression that teams get one this offseason then one the following. if that's the case i have been suggesting the first one be used on briere (if he's not traded) and then bryz if he doesn't significantly improve (like post a 920 sv%) the following year.

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03-11-2013, 05:54 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
i think it's pretty evident by now that he can't succeed in this system. that's not saying the system is bad in fact it is saying bryz kinda sucks cause he can only be good when the team is playing one way. but who exactly are you gonna put in there and expect to win? leighton? leighton can't play well in any system lets be real.

after the type of seasons smith has had recently he'll be getting a significant raise this offseason and i'm not sold on him anyway as he was atrocious in TB as well as this year (he's actually been worse then bryz). howard isn't leaving detroit and everyone else is old/injury prone.

i would have no problem amnestying bryz if there was anyone else i had any confidence that could do any better available.
Like I said, you and I agree that maybe Lavi should be done. Quite frankly I'm really tired of the consistent 1 out of 3 periods with solid energy/effort, wasting our skill on the dump ins, the inability to adjust our game plan at all when teams like NJ totally neutralize our dump ins, the tired excuses, etc. I'd be fine with a coaching change and a system change, but the goalie needs to go too.

As far as who we bring in, no of course not Leighton. Not Smith either unless he comes cheap. Maybe Howard, there's a chance he leaves IMO because I think Detroit's immediate future chances of contending look somewhat bleak. Backstrom is another option depending on the price; he's only 2.5 years older than Bryz. Tim Thomas could be a stopgap option too.

But definitely not Leighton. Goalies aren't an "all or nothing" type thing... you know that, right? There are goalies in between franchise types who require 5+ year commitments of ridiculous amounts of money and the Leightons of the world. And teams have used these types of goalies to win championships. We could too. The Red Wings won w/ an over the hill Hasek / a way past his prime backup (Osgood) who came in in relief. The Blackhawks won w/ Niemi who they viewed as a stopgap type and subsequently let him go rather than pay him the 2.75M he was awarded in arbitration. And the Blackhawks are dominating the league once again with two stopgap type goalies.

Is there a great long-term option out there? Maybe not. But why do we need a 5+ year option in net? There's nothing wrong with getting an older goalie who can stop pucks for 1-2 years then re-evaluating things after he retires / his contract is up. Snagging Tim Thomas on a 1 year deal + a competent backup (Montoya?) should still cost much less than Bryz + Leighton/Boosh do this year, and given the way Thomas was playing in 2012, I'd have no problem with that. Or we could grab Ray Emery for a year, I'd have no problem with that. And either of those plans would allow us to re-evaluate the position in the 2014 offseason, when Lundqvist, Miller, Hiller, Dubnyk are all expected to be UFAs. You'd expect Lundqvist to re-sign, but who knows, maybe he gets fed up w/ Torts and w/ the inability to go far in the postseason and looks elsewhere. Miller and Hiller though at a minimum should both make it to UFA status.

Or we could always trade for a good young goalie (Bernier, Schneider, one of Ottawa's goalies, etc.).

There are plenty of options for life without Bryzgalov. We need to pick one.

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03-11-2013, 05:55 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
No. This offseason and next.
Alright.

We can afford to hold onto Bryz one more season then and watch the market closely / wait to see what's up with Stolarz.

I will say though that we need to go back after Sunshine.

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03-11-2013, 05:59 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
i've been under the impression that teams get one this offseason then one the following. if that's the case i have been suggesting the first one be used on briere (if he's not traded) and then bryz if he doesn't significantly improve (like post a 920 sv%) the following year.
Pretty sure it's 2 amnesty buyouts to be used whenever you want between the 2013 off-season and the 2014 off-season. And then obviously they made an exception for teams to be able to use one of the two buyouts prior to the start of this regular season (hence Gomez and Redden being bought out).

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03-11-2013, 05:59 PM
  #956
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Alright.

We can afford to hold onto Bryz one more season then and watch the market closely / wait to see what's up with Stolarz.

I will say though that we need to go back after Sunshine
.
I completely agree but watch out. some people will start in on you if you say that. i went through this whole thing with couple other poster some months back.

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03-11-2013, 06:05 PM
  #957
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To clear the air on the Compliance Buyouts:

NHL Link

Quote:
In the new Collective Bargaining Agreement agreed to recently by the NHL and the NHLPA, clubs were permitted two "compliance" buyouts to take place during the 2013 and/or 2014 offseasons in order to ease the transition to a lower salary cap.

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03-11-2013, 06:25 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Like I said, you and I agree that maybe Lavi should be done. Quite frankly I'm really tired of the consistent 1 out of 3 periods with solid energy/effort, wasting our skill on the dump ins, the inability to adjust our game plan at all when teams like NJ totally neutralize our dump ins, the tired excuses, etc. I'd be fine with a coaching change and a system change, but the goalie needs to go too.

As far as who we bring in, no of course not Leighton. Not Smith either unless he comes cheap. Maybe Howard, there's a chance he leaves IMO because I think Detroit's immediate future chances of contending look somewhat bleak. Backstrom is another option depending on the price; he's only 2.5 years older than Bryz. Tim Thomas could be a stopgap option too.

But definitely not Leighton. Goalies aren't an "all or nothing" type thing... you know that, right? There are goalies in between franchise types who require 5+ year commitments of ridiculous amounts of money and the Leightons of the world. And teams have used these types of goalies to win championships. We could too. The Red Wings won w/ an over the hill Hasek / a way past his prime backup (Osgood) who came in in relief. The Blackhawks won w/ Niemi who they viewed as a stopgap type and subsequently let him go rather than pay him the 2.75M he was awarded in arbitration. And the Blackhawks are dominating the league once again with two stopgap type goalies.

Is there a great long-term option out there? Maybe not. But why do we need a 5+ year option in net? There's nothing wrong with getting an older goalie who can stop pucks for 1-2 years then re-evaluating things after he retires / his contract is up. Snagging Tim Thomas on a 1 year deal + a competent backup (Montoya?) should still cost much less than Bryz + Leighton/Boosh do this year, and given the way Thomas was playing in 2012, I'd have no problem with that. Or we could grab Ray Emery for a year, I'd have no problem with that. And either of those plans would allow us to re-evaluate the position in the 2014 offseason, when Lundqvist, Miller, Hiller, Dubnyk are all expected to be UFAs. You'd expect Lundqvist to re-sign, but who knows, maybe he gets fed up w/ Torts and w/ the inability to go far in the postseason and looks elsewhere. Miller and Hiller though at a minimum should both make it to UFA status.

Or we could always trade for a good young goalie (Bernier, Schneider, one of Ottawa's goalies, etc.).

There are plenty of options for life without Bryzgalov. We need to pick one.
if you amnesty bryz i really don't like the idea of going after Bernier or Schneider or really any young goalie for that matter as they'll cost a lot (assets) and are unproven so we may end up in the same position or worse (loss of aforementioned assets). Thomas after a year off will probably be garbage and i don't want that trouble maker on the flyers. again i doubt Detroit lets Howard go as they're always a playoff team. Backstrom has had injury problems and emery's performance i believe is a product of playing on a great team and will consequently get a raise for putting up good numbers. I like the idea of getting Hiller, though that is a few years away. Gibson is their goalie of the future so i hightly doubt he remains a duck but he'll most definitely be traded and re-signed (just saying i don't think he'll hit UFA). Miller has been on a gradual decline and doesn't show up for big games and lundqvist, well i'd cream my pants if the flyers got him but he's a ranger for life imo. the organization would fire trots before letting him go.

bob would of been a great stop gap at the very least until going after someone like hiller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
To clear the air on the Compliance Buyouts:

NHL Link
Thanks, that clear things up

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:32 PM
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
if you amnesty bryz i really don't like the idea of going after Bernier or Schneider or really any young goalie for that matter as they'll cost a lot (assets) and are unproven so we may end up in the same position or worse (loss of aforementioned assets). Thomas after a year off will probably be garbage and i don't want that trouble maker on the flyers. again i doubt Detroit lets Howard go as they're always a playoff team. Backstrom has had injury problems and emery's performance i believe is a product of playing on a great team and will consequently get a raise for putting up good numbers. I like the idea of getting Hiller, though that is a few years away. Gibson is their goalie of the future so i hightly doubt he remains a duck but he'll most definitely be traded and re-signed (just saying i don't think he'll hit UFA). Miller has been on a gradual decline and doesn't show up for big games and lundqvist, well i'd cream my pants if the flyers got him but he's a ranger for life imo. the organization would fire trots before letting him go.

bob would of been a great stop gap at the very least until going after someone like hiller.



Thanks, that clear things up
Bob wouldve been a great stopgap but at the time we didnt know there was going to be compliance buyouts. The Canucks are going to have to get rid of Luongo or Scheider. They are at 60 million at next years cap already. Whether they trade or not I would assume theyd buyout Louongo.

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03-11-2013, 06:38 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
Bob wouldve been a great stopgap but at the time we didnt know there was going to be compliance buyouts. The Canucks are going to have to get rid of Luongo or Scheider. They are at 60 million at next years cap already. Whether they trade or not I would assume theyd buyout Louongo.
I wouldn't mind Louongo short term but Toronto will most likely offer him crazy money on a long term contract if he's not traded this offseason. i can't imagine the canucks getting rid of schneider. just saying i don't really see him as a viable option either. i guess i'm just a pessimist

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03-11-2013, 07:01 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
if you amnesty bryz i really don't like the idea of going after Bernier or Schneider or really any young goalie for that matter as they'll cost a lot (assets) and are unproven so we may end up in the same position or worse (loss of aforementioned assets). Thomas after a year off will probably be garbage and i don't want that trouble maker on the flyers. again i doubt Detroit lets Howard go as they're always a playoff team. Backstrom has had injury problems and emery's performance i believe is a product of playing on a great team and will consequently get a raise for putting up good numbers. I like the idea of getting Hiller, though that is a few years away. Gibson is their goalie of the future so i hightly doubt he remains a duck but he'll most definitely be traded and re-signed (just saying i don't think he'll hit UFA). Miller has been on a gradual decline and doesn't show up for big games and lundqvist, well i'd cream my pants if the flyers got him but he's a ranger for life imo. the organization would fire trots before letting him go.

bob would of been a great stop gap at the very least until going after someone like hiller.



Thanks, that clear things up
What other option is there? Keeping Bryz in not an option as far as I am concerned unless you are fine with inconsistency and sub .900 goaltending for 7 more years

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03-11-2013, 07:02 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
Bob wouldve been a great stopgap but at the time we didnt know there was going to be compliance buyouts. The Canucks are going to have to get rid of Luongo or Scheider. They are at 60 million at next years cap already. Whether they trade or not I would assume theyd buyout Louongo.
They are not going to buy out Luongo. At a minimum they get a draft pick or 2.

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03-11-2013, 07:06 PM
  #963
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They are not going to buy out Luongo. At a minimum they get a draft pick or 2.
I would agree with this but that contracts brutal when you consider his age. There's only a few teams that can take on that kind of contract.

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03-11-2013, 07:08 PM
  #964
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They are not going to buy out Luongo. At a minimum they get a draft pick or 2.
What team wants dat contract, oh wise one?

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03-11-2013, 07:09 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
I wouldn't mind Louongo short term but Toronto will most likely offer him crazy money on a long term contract if he's not traded this offseason. i can't imagine the canucks getting rid of schneider. just saying i don't really see him as a viable option either. i guess i'm just a pessimist
I highly doubt TOR does anything of the sort. Reimer and Scrivens have both played quite well for them. No reason to spend insane $$$ on Luongo.

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03-11-2013, 07:13 PM
  #966
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There's a limited market for Luongo. Florida and Toronto were really the only teams interested in him. Toronto has 2 goalies playing well for them. Florida has Markstrom and actual dollars might be a problem for them when it comes to Luongo's contract.

Vancouver may find no trading partners and be forced to buy him out.

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03-11-2013, 07:34 PM
  #967
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If Bryz could consistently make those momentum saves without surrendering soft goals like he did last night
None of Buffalo's goals were "soft".

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03-11-2013, 07:39 PM
  #968
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There's always a scapegoat, especially if that person (a) has a high contract, and (b) was expected (by the fanbase) to be some kind of saviour.

It's been a vocal minority that has placed blame specifically on Bryz alone.
Good points.

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03-11-2013, 07:50 PM
  #969
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I think a lot of people are missing the point here. Yes Bryz is getting a lot blame, I used to defend Bryz. I actually think he is doing pretty well this season. But the problem is his play has been close to the league average this year. Yet his pay is very above average.

Bryz haters are like omg he sucks cut him he doesn't deserve pay.
Bryz Defenders are like omg team defense sucks leaves him to dry.

Reality is he isn't playing that badly but his cap hit is way too high. Flyers can use that money elsewhere. You can sign a goalie 2-3 million, with the same production, but use the 2-3 million you save on a defensemen/forward.

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03-11-2013, 07:59 PM
  #970
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I think a lot of people are missing the point here. Yes Bryz is getting a lot blame, I used to defend Bryz. I actually think he is doing pretty well this season. But the problem is his play has been close to the league average this year. Yet his pay is very above average.

Bryz haters are like omg he sucks cut him he doesn't deserve pay.
Bryz Defenders are like omg team defense sucks leaves him to dry.

Reality is he isn't playing that badly but his cap hit is way too high. Flyers can use that money elsewhere. You can sign a goalie 2-3 million, with the same production, but use the 2-3 million you save on a defensemen/forward.
Actually, I think most "Bryz haters" are being very rational about this.

We could get his production from almost anyone. Why are we paying him that money?

I think it's a reasonable question as you pointed out.

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03-11-2013, 08:32 PM
  #971
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They are not going to buy out Luongo. At a minimum they get a draft pick or 2.
What team is dumb enough to take on that deal?

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03-11-2013, 09:03 PM
  #972
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Bryz Defenders are like omg team defense sucks leaves him to dry.
I'd consider myself a defender but I'm not always looking to find someone or something else to blame.

If you think he can eventually get us a cup, you pay him what he's getting. Can he?

Compare his career to other winning goalies' careers. Most of them are volatile. There are a select few who stay in the first tier much longer than anyone else, but they're so hard to come by that it doesn't make sense to say "only pay top tier money to a top tier goalie". You'll end up with a 3rd or 4th tier goalie on the cheap and be forced to build your team around goaltending that has 0% chance of ever being reliable. I don't like the idea of having to force the retooling of an entire team just because some don't feel a particular $2 - $3 million is justified.

I'm in favor of paying Bryz a lot because there's no better option.

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03-11-2013, 09:14 PM
  #973
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I'd consider myself a defender but I'm not always looking to find someone or something else to blame.

If you think he can eventually get us a cup, you pay him what he's getting. Can he?

Compare his career to other winning goalies' careers. Most of them are volatile. There are a select few who stay in the first tier much longer than anyone else, but they're so hard to come by that it doesn't make sense to say "only pay top tier money to a top tier goalie". You'll end up with a 3rd or 4th tier goalie on the cheap and be forced to build your team around goaltending that has 0% chance of ever being reliable. I don't like the idea of having to force the retooling of an entire team just because some don't feel a particular $2 - $3 million is justified.

I'm in favor of paying Bryz a lot because there's no better option.
yes. that and everyone acts like this money is holding us up from getting someone else. name names then. who are they talking about? we tried to give one of the richest contracts in NHL history out well after signing bryzgalov. our team will always spend to the max. these people crying about the cap hit act like its such a legitimate complaint but its not based around any realistic scenarios where its stopped us from picking somebody up. i think the root of all this in reality is patience. people are impatient. i'm impatient. i want a damn cup but also knew when these moves were made in 2011 that it was gonna set us back a few years. we're still progressing as a team and figuring out what works and what doesn't. the core is very young. it's gonna suck to miss the playoffs too but i like most of our pieces we just gotta grow some sacks and stop whining. stay the course. briere is the dead weight cap hit to me.

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03-11-2013, 09:28 PM
  #974
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even if you get rid of bryz, you bring another goalie thats good for a few years and that goalie wants starter money like bryz, you just get rid of him like that? that's not smart especially if you dont have a back up option, i mean i wouldnt get rid of bryz unless you have a goalie that's good enough that's going to be a starter in the minor leagues or fa, if not then it's setting the team back more years especially with homer's lousy drafting with goalies.

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03-11-2013, 09:29 PM
  #975
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So the cap has never been a problem? I guess Upshall + a 2nd for Carcillo didn't make enough room to keep Giroux on the roster then. We magically got the room needed. Yup, no cap problems there. Gagne for Matt Walker was a great trade too and the Flyers did that to acquire a good d-man, not to stay under the cap. There has never been any cap problems here, no sir, never.

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