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ATD 2013 - Draft Thread VI

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Old
03-11-2013, 02:25 PM
  #76
BraveCanadian
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Vancouver adds a lot of muscle, and a little bit of goonery to the 4th line with RW Todd Bertuzzi.
Another guy I was considering.. I couldn't figure out what to do with him though.

He's been a big body his whole career obviously but he has a very short time as a top power forward, and a very short time as a pretty good defensive grinder, but not enough of either to be of much use except in a pinch in this setting.

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03-11-2013, 02:28 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Another guy I was considering.. I couldn't figure out what to do with him though.

He's been a big body his whole career obviously but he has a very short time as a top power forward, and a very short time as a pretty good defensive grinder, but not enough of either to be of much use except in a pinch in this setting.
IMO, you did the right thing in selecting Dineen.

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Old
03-11-2013, 02:29 PM
  #78
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IMO, you did the right thing in selecting Dineen.
I actually really like my third line.

A good mix of hustle, defense, offense and physical play imo.

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Old
03-11-2013, 02:35 PM
  #79
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I think Bertuzzi accomplished enough to be a credible net presence on a second PP unit.

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Old
03-11-2013, 02:45 PM
  #80
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I think Bertuzzi accomplished enough to be a credible net presence on a second PP unit.
He's also a prototypical 6'4'' 235 lb pugilist for a fourth liner IMO, not sure what else you would want from the guys that will play 6-7 minutes a game.

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03-11-2013, 03:01 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
He's also a prototypical 6'4'' 235 lb pugilist for a fourth liner IMO, not sure what else you would want from the guys that will play 6-7 minutes a game.
As it is for bottom-pairing defensemen, I think it definitely depends on team concept. Some teams, especially this year, look set to roll their lines and will need more from their 4th liners, while some will only look for a bit of energy and physicality out of their bottom lines. Bertuzzi certainly brings thuggery, though not much else at even strength, imo, so he fits well on a team that is only looking for that.

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03-11-2013, 03:08 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
As it is for bottom-pairing defensemen, I think it definitely depends on team concept. Some teams, especially this year, look set to roll their lines and will need more from their 4th liners, while some will only look for a bit of energy and physicality out of their bottom lines. Bertuzzi certainly brings thuggery, though not much else at even strength, imo, so he fits well on a team that is only looking for that.
My team is definitely the latter, although Oliver-Bertuzzi is 2/3 of a 4th line that can 'play' IMO.


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Old
03-11-2013, 03:14 PM
  #83
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Baltimore adds another presence to its power play with the selection of right winger Milan Hejduk at Pick 591 of the 2013 ATD.



Hejduk has 8 seasons of 10 or more power play goals and led the league in goals in 2002-2003.

Next has been pmed.

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:24 PM
  #84
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Shoring up my D with steady 5 time Stanley Cup winner:

D, Charlie Huddy


Pushing one of Phaneuf or Corbeau to spare status, thoughts?

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:25 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Shoring up my D with steady 5 time Stanley Cup winner:

D, Charlie Huddy


Pushing one of Phaneuf or Corbeau to spare status, thoughts?
Huddy should be the #7 IMO (and a damn good one).

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:27 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Shoring up my D with steady 5 time Stanley Cup winner:

D, Charlie Huddy


Pushing one of Phaneuf or Corbeau to spare status, thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS6y704q1rc

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:33 PM
  #87
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I actually really like my third line.

A good mix of hustle, defense, offense and physical play imo.
You've got easily the best "traditional" (so not counting Savard, Ratelle and Bowie) 3rd line center in the draft flanked by a couple of pretty crappy wings, imo. I don't honestly see why Miller should be a starter in the ATD, and Dineen looks like more of a 4th liner to me.

I don't mean to specifically pick on your team, but I have decided not to hold my tongue this draft about things I don't like. I think many GMs are afraid to offer even muted criticism of opponents out of fear that it might come back to bite them come voting time. After seeing last year's ATD champion breeze through without ever getting meaningful criticism for what was really a bad 2nd line, I feel somehow compelled to poke at out of place players when I see them. Not actually running a team has its advantages.

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:42 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
You've got easily the best "traditional" (so not counting Savard, Ratelle and Bowie) 3rd line center in the draft flanked by a couple of pretty crappy wings, imo. I don't honestly see why Miller should be a starter in the ATD, and Dineen looks like more of a 4th liner to me.

I don't mean to specifically pick on your team, but I have decided not to hold my tongue this draft about things I don't like. I think many GMs are afraid to offer even muted criticism of opponents out of fear that it might come back to bite them come voting time. After seeing last year's ATD champion breeze through without ever getting meaningful criticism for what was really a bad 2nd line, I feel somehow compelled to poke at out of place players when I see them. Not actually running a team has its advantages.
Kelly Miller has great team penalty killing stats, so there is that...

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:46 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
You've got easily the best "traditional" (so not counting Savard, Ratelle and Bowie) 3rd line center in the draft flanked by a couple of pretty crappy wings, imo. I don't honestly see why Miller should be a starter in the ATD, and Dineen looks like more of a 4th liner to me.

I don't mean to specifically pick on your team, but I have decided not to hold my tongue this draft about things I don't like. I think many GMs are afraid to offer even muted criticism of opponents out of fear that it might come back to bite them come voting time. After seeing last year's ATD champion breeze through without ever getting meaningful criticism for what was really a bad 2nd line, I feel somehow compelled to poke at out of place players when I see them. Not actually running a team has its advantages.
Dineen is on the 3rd line? When he was picked I thought it was for the 4th line..

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:48 PM
  #90
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On the topic of players who I will now randomly criticize, while reading the good bio Dreak and vecens put together on George Hay, I was struck by the question: who were the other left wings in the WCHL/WCL while Hay was winning all those all-star awards? I actually went ahead and researched this question for my own edification, and other than an ancient Rusty Crawford for a few years, I can't identify a single guy other than Hay, himself, who I know played left wing that was ever among the league leaders in those western leagues. I'm not sure who his major competition was in 1926-27, either. Cy Denneny was 35 and in decline, Bun Cook was raw and Joliat just sort of disappeared that season for whatever reason.

The bottom line is that Hay's 1928 GM-selected all-star nod looks legit, but the rest of the all-star information posted in that bio looks all kinds of soft. This is one of the problems with very early stars, and something one always has to look out for. Certain players in certain times in certain leagues end up being basically the only star at their position. All-star nods don't really tell us much when you're competing against a bunch of stiffs.

edit: this kind of thing happened even as late the 1970's, at the left wing position, specifically. The talent in the NHL got really thin for a while there.


Last edited by Sturminator: 03-11-2013 at 04:14 PM.
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Old
03-11-2013, 03:52 PM
  #91
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Dineen is on the 3rd line? When he was picked I thought it was for the 4th line..
Other than Brind'Amour I'm not sure why BC is so thrilled with his third line...

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03-11-2013, 04:27 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
On the topic of players who I will now randomly criticize, while reading the good bio Dreak and vecens put together on George Hay, I was struck by the question: who were the other left wings in the WCHL/WCL while Hay was winning all those all-star awards? I actually went ahead and researched this question for my own edification, and other than an ancient Rusty Crawford for a few years, I can't identify a single guy other than Hay, himself, who I know played left wing that was ever among the league leaders in those western leagues. I'm not sure who his major competition was in 1926-27, either. Cy Denneny was 35 and in decline, Bun Cook was raw and Joliat just sort of disappeared that season for whatever reason.

The bottom line is that Hay's 1928 GM-selected all-star nod looks legit, but the rest of the all-star information posted in that bio looks all kinds of soft. This is one of the problems with very early stars, and something one always has to look out for. Certain players in certain times in certain leagues end up being basically the only star at their position. All-star nods don't really tell us much when you're competing against a bunch of stiffs.

edit: this kind of thing happened even as late the 1970's, at the left wing position, specifically. The talent in the NHL got really thin for a while there.
It's fair to question how valuable those all-star selections are. It's not just LWs either. In split leagues, the talent can be thin at any position.

George Hay was top-3 in WHL scoring 3 times, so he was among the best offensive players in that whole league. Considering he was also a two-way player, I think it's fair to say he was one of the best players, at any position, while he was getting those Western all-stars. Fair?

Not sure what's to question about his 2 GM-voted teams. That was in a consolidated league.

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Old
03-11-2013, 05:01 PM
  #93
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Not sure what's to question about his 2 GM-voted teams. That was in a consolidated league.
Hay ends up getting dinged the same way that Keats does, as the WCHL was a thin league until 1924-25 when it merged with the PCHA, and even then, I still don't see any other left wings. After the merge, Hay placed 9th and then 5th in scoring - 66 and 88 percent of the #2 scorer. 1926-27 looks suspicious, even in a consolidated league, because Hay didn't score very well that season and had very weak competition from everyone else at the position. He had that one really good scoring season in the NHL (1927-28), and nothing much else to get excited about. As I said, this kind of thing happens from time-to-time even in otherwise talented leagues, as does the opposite where a huge amount of talent gets piled up at one position during a certain period. I mean...Rick Martin and Andy Bathgate have the same all-star credentials.

None of this is to say that Hay sucks. I think he's fine on a second line, but I don't think his all-star record really tells us much, either.

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03-11-2013, 05:08 PM
  #94
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Hay ends up getting dinged the same way that Keats does, as the WCHL was a thin league until 1924-25 when it merged with the PCHA, and even then, I still don't see any other left wings. 1926-27 looks suspicious, even in a consolidated league, because Hay didn't score very well that season and had very weak competition from everyone else at the position. After the merge, Hay placed 9th and then 5th in scoring - 66 and 88 percent of the #2 scorer. He had one really good scoring season in the NHL, and nothing much else to get excited about. As I said, this kind of thing happens from time-to-time even in otherwise talented leagues, as does the opposite where a huge amount of talent gets piled up at one position during a certain period. I mean...Rick Martin and Andy Bathgate have the same all-star credentials.

None of this is to say that Hay sucks. I think he's fine on a second line, but I don't think his all-star record really tells us much, either.
Yeah, that's fair. His competition at left wing was weak. His all-stars are only a piece of the picture though.


Looks like I'm up. Vecens is still swamped, so I'm just going to pick.

We'll take Ray Getliffe to play with Red Sullivan. That should create a pretty scary forecheck on the 4th line.

I'm on my phone, so somebody please PM the next GM.

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03-11-2013, 05:08 PM
  #95
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Reds, you know you've got a skipped pick that's up, right?

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03-11-2013, 05:11 PM
  #96
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Reds, you know you've got a skipped pick that's up, right?
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I'll take Boris Mayorov, W.
Red's pick.

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03-11-2013, 05:15 PM
  #97
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Yeah, that's fair. His competition at left wing was weak. His all-stars are only a piece of the picture though.


Looks like I'm up. Vecens is still swamped, so I'm just going to pick.

We'll take Ray Getliffe to play with Red Sullivan. That should create a pretty scary forecheck on the 4th line.

I'm on my phone, so somebody please PM the next GM.
Done

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Old
03-11-2013, 05:53 PM
  #98
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Shoring up my D with steady 5 time Stanley Cup winner: D, Charlie Huddy Pushing one of Phaneuf or Corbeau to spare status, thoughts?
I like Huddy over Phaneuf, unless you want a more defensive guy like Keith. In 2 of the last 3 years Dion has only scored 32 and 30 points.

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:02 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
On the topic of players who I will now randomly criticize, while reading the good bio Dreak and vecens put together on George Hay, I was struck by the question: who were the other left wings in the WCHL/WCL while Hay was winning all those all-star awards? I actually went ahead and researched this question for my own edification, and other than an ancient Rusty Crawford for a few years, I can't identify a single guy other than Hay, himself, who I know played left wing that was ever among the league leaders in those western leagues. I'm not sure who his major competition was in 1926-27, either. Cy Denneny was 35 and in decline, Bun Cook was raw and Joliat just sort of disappeared that season for whatever reason.

The bottom line is that Hay's 1928 GM-selected all-star nod looks legit, but the rest of the all-star information posted in that bio looks all kinds of soft. This is one of the problems with very early stars, and something one always has to look out for. Certain players in certain times in certain leagues end up being basically the only star at their position. All-star nods don't really tell us much when you're competing against a bunch of stiffs.

edit: this kind of thing happened even as late the 1970's, at the left wing position, specifically. The talent in the NHL got really thin for a while there.
That's why I'm more interested in comparisons to all positions. Just as 70's wingers show their colours that way, how does Hay compare to Duke Keats would be helpful.

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03-11-2013, 06:25 PM
  #100
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That should give your PP a nice boost. Excellent pick!
Yeah, that's a good one. For some reason I thought he was already picked.....that's the second time I've thought this about a player.....

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