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Oldest Core/Team In Worst Condition for the Future?

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:37 PM
  #26
Backlund
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derriko View Post
I don't think Vancouver is in the same tier as SJ and Calgary.

I also don't think Detroit is in that bad of a situation, though I do find their prospect pool very overrated.
Vancouver may have the better team but their prospect pool is worse than SJ and Calgary.

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03-11-2013, 04:42 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Wings, Sharks, Flames, and Nucks were the ones that came to my mind.

Sharks and Flames particularly. Wings have 3-4 good prospects but they are only prospects, only Nyquist seems like a sure fire Top 6 guy.

EDIT: New Jersey to an extent as well. Thought they do have a few good young pieces too.
I don't agree with the bolded portion. Nyquist, Tatar, and Jarnkrok could all probably be top 6ers this or next season.
However after that (for top 6 forwards) it seems like a lot of boom or bust type prospects, if the majority pan out the rebuild/retool will be relatively easy, that's a big "if" though.

That's just for top 6 forwards though, our D prospects seem much better (and safer).

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03-11-2013, 04:44 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Backlund View Post
Vancouver may have the better team but their prospect pool is worse than SJ and Calgary.
Doubt it.

Outside of Sven who looks to be an impact NHL'r? Gaudreau is still 2-3 years away at least. The great Jankowski is 3-4 Years at least. The rest are all mediocre prospects that may or may not do anything in the bigs.

If anything they are all on the same page. San Jose is likely worse. The big difference is, Vancouver and San Jose have players in that 20-27 year old range actually contributing to the team. The Flames dont.

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03-11-2013, 04:49 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 99 steps View Post
We've been hearing about that for a while now from Wings fans...
Not up to us, it is up to Ken and Mike.

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:52 PM
  #30
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Holland loves his veterans but at least he's only giving them 1-2 year deals so I don't think the Red Wings are in danger. They have Sproul and Ouellet coming up in a few years to go with Kindl, Smith and Ericcson. Mrazek is going to be a stud. Jarnkrok, Tatar and Nyquist would make a pretty solid second line or one of the best third lines in the NHL.

As long as they get a couple high draft picks to get an elite forward and elite defensmen they should be contenders years from now. They have second and third line talent in aces but lack top-end talent.

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:53 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by flyin_finn View Post
Devils.

Their both goalies are middle-aged, the leading scorer is 36 (Elias) and their top-3 defenseman (Salvador, Greene & Zidlicky) average age bit over 34 years.

Although they will likely continue pulling it off, thanks to their system...
Shame, if you had included an attendance jab you could have won an "ignorant post of the week" award.

Our top three defensemen are Andy Greene (30), Mark Fayne (25), and Adam Larsson (20).

We have a couple young forwards like Henrique (23) and Loktionov (22) that are contributing at the NHL right now. Josefson (22) is still a work in progress.

We've got a decent prospect cupboard with Matteau (19) making the NHL even though he's clearly still developing, arguably the best defensive prospect in the NCAA in Jon Merrill (21), and a guy in Reid Boucher (19) who just broke Stamkos's OHL goal scoring record. We also have a metric ton of quality pro or near pro defensive prospects, and three goalie prospects playing in the pros as well.

We locked up our top center Zajac (27) for eight more years. Expect Clarkson (28) to be back next year too.

We also have this guy named Kovalchuk (29), he's pretty decent I hear.

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:56 PM
  #32
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Flames and Sharks.

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Old
03-11-2013, 05:01 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 steps View Post
We've been hearing about that for a while now from Wings fans...
Tatar has been one of our most dangerous forwards on a nightly basis.

After bouncing in and out of the lineup for two seasons Jakub Kindl is looking really good with consistent ice time in a second-pairing role. Leads the team in +/-

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Old
03-11-2013, 05:04 PM
  #34
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How can there be any other answer besides Calgary?

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:19 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 steps View Post
We've been hearing about that for a while now from Wings fans...
Really? Because last I checked, just about every noteworthy Detroit prospect aside from Tatar and Nyquist is from the 2010 and 2011 drafts, which they loaded up in.

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03-11-2013, 06:20 PM
  #36
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It's not even close Calgary

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:23 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backlund View Post
Vancouver may have the better team but their prospect pool is worse than SJ and Calgary.
yeah but at least they have a team lol, you have a bunch of scrubs besides Iggy and Kipper. And even with those two you may not get anything for them considering how bone headed your front office and ownership is. Calgary seriously has to be the worst run franchise in hockey. A close second is Edmonton but at least they blew it up and have some really good young players, I have no idea what your ownership sees with this team to want to continue down this road. You're sitting last in the West congrats.

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:25 PM
  #38
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It's fashionable among even Sharks fans to say the sharks, and definitely our prospect pipeline is poor, however DW has managed the cap well and the roster has many pieces on it with significant value, so the ability to build via trades and if need be FA signings is there.

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:27 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Really? Because last I checked, just about every noteworthy Detroit prospect aside from Tatar and Nyquist is from the 2010 and 2011 drafts, which they loaded up in.
Yeah, those two drafts really changed our future. Othervise it would be horrible. Now it's very promising.

And there's also a big probability that we will sink and tank this year, and draft high in a great draft. 1st line center is the biggest need in our prospects core. Goalies, wingers, defence and depth centers are just fine.

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:29 PM
  #40
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Interesting that according to Mirtle, Flames are almost dead middle in the pack for average age. 13 other teams in front of them.

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/01/20...t-and-age.html

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:39 PM
  #41
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Iggy is 35 and Kipper is 36 and the window has past for the flames
The Sedins are 32 and Vancouver is on the tail end of window
Thornton 33, Marleau 33 and Boyle 36 and San Jose on the tail end of their window
Datsyuk 34 and Zeterburg 32 for San Jose who is on the tail end of window


Prospect are prospect but these players won't be replaced easily by prospect in the system and are the players that are expected to lead their team in the playoffs. The flames window has past and the other three are on borrowed time or the tail end of their prime.

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:54 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
yeah but at least they have a team lol, you have a bunch of scrubs besides Iggy and Kipper. And even with those two you may not get anything for them considering how bone headed your front office and ownership is. Calgary seriously has to be the worst run franchise in hockey. A close second is Edmonton but at least they blew it up and have some really good young players, I have no idea what your ownership sees with this team to want to continue down this road. You're sitting last in the West congrats.
Honestly I suppose it's typical this being HF but the concept of 'having a team' is severely underrated here. Take 5 bottom teams loaded with top prospects and 5 top teams loaded with vets. 5 years from now, the smart bet would be putting money on things leaning more towards looking the same rather than a reversal of fortune. The NHL doesn't work like that.

So want to see something that will blow your mind?

Quote:
2011-12 Western DIV GP W L OT P
1 *p - Vancouver NW 82 51 22 9 111
2 *y - St. Louis CEN 82 49 22 11 109
3 *y - Phoenix PAC 82 42 27 13 97
4 *x - Nashville CEN 82 48 26 8 104
5 *x - Detroit CEN 82 48 28 6 102
6 *x - Chicago CEN 82 45 26 11 101
7 *x - San Jose PAC 82 43 29 10 96
8 *x - LA PAC 82 40 27 15 95

9 *Calgary NW 82 37 29 16 90
10 *Dallas PAC 82 42 35 5 89
11 *Colorado NW 82 41 35 6 88
12 *Minnesota NW 82 35 36 11 81
13 *Anaheim PAC 82 34 36 12 80
14 *Edmonton NW 82 32 40 10 74
15 *Columbus CEN 82 29 46 7 65
Quote:
2001-02 Western DIV GP W L OT OTL P
1 *p - Detroit CEN 82 51 17 10 4 116
2 *y - Colorado NW 82 45 28 8 1 99
3 *y - San Jose PAC 82 44 27 8 3 99
4 *x - St. Louis CEN 82 43 27 8 4 98
5 *x - Chicago CEN 82 41 27 13 1 96
6 *x - Phoenix PAC 82 40 27 9 6 95
7 *x - Los Angeles PAC 82 40 27 11 4 95
8 *x - Vancouver NW 82 42 30 7 3 94

9 *Edmonton NW 82 38 28 12 4 92
10 *Dallas PAC 82 36 28 13 5 90
11 *Calgary NW 82 32 35 12 3 79
12 *Minnesota NW 82 26 35 12 9 73
13 *Anaheim PAC 82 29 42 8 3 69
14 *Nashville CEN 82 28 41 13 0 69
15 *Columbus CEN 82 22 47 8 5 57
Actually maybe not quite blow your mind, I missed Colorado swapping with Nashville. The East had a bigger turnover but it was still only 50/50 with 4 different teams.

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:55 PM
  #43
Trafalgar Law
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
Interesting that according to Mirtle, Flames are almost dead middle in the pack for average age. 13 other teams in front of them.

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/01/20...t-and-age.html
Yeah, but are guys like Blake Comeau really going to be that effective in the future?

Calgary is probably the only team in the NHL bar the Red Wingsthat lacks a stud young player (Bartschi might be that in 2/3 years, but we can't say for sure right now) or an elite player early in their prime who'll likely be effective for the next 5 years. Sharks have Couture/Pavelski, Canucks have Kesler/Edler, and that alone should put them ahead of the Flames. The Wings are pretty terrible as well, but since the Wings have a better history of drafting/developing, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt over the Flames.

1. Flames
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3. Sharks
4. Canucks

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:59 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
Interesting that according to Mirtle, Flames are almost dead middle in the pack for average age. 13 other teams in front of them.

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/01/20...t-and-age.html
That is based on opening day when Sven,Horak,Jones, and Irving were on the team they have been replaced with Mcgrattan,Hudler,Cervenka, McDonald.

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:09 PM
  #45
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Considering the Wings prospect list being ranked #10 on this very site, I find the numerous mentions of them in this thread concerning. Are you sure you guys have checked our entire prospect list? There might not be a home run, sure fire #1D/ PPG forward, but likely some really nice depth pieces (2nd liners/ 2nd pair dmen) and maybe one or two guys fit those molds. Weren't the majority of Canadian posters on here raving about XO's play throughout the WJCs this past year? Where has that enthusiasm gone?

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:11 PM
  #46
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Flames AINEC

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:11 PM
  #47
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1. Flames
2. Sharks
3. Canucks
4. Detroit
5. Jersey

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:11 PM
  #48
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SJ and the Flames.. Calgary just needs to rebuild already... like 4 years ago. SJ needs to win right now right now or I think they're going to be obscure for a good number of years.

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:18 PM
  #49
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Well Flames definitely.

San Jose is getting there, but it depends what they do. If they do the smart thing and start the rebuild before its a problem they could be fine. Marleau, Thornton, Boyle, Pavelski all come of the books next year. They could ship three of those guys out (Thornton, Marleau and Boyle) to teams that have prospects but would want to contend, thus revamping there system and building around Burns, Couture, Vlasic, Pavelski etc.

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:54 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
Yeah, but are guys like Blake Comeau really going to be that effective in the future?

Calgary is probably the only team in the NHL bar the Red Wingsthat lacks a stud young player (Bartschi might be that in 2/3 years, but we can't say for sure right now) or an elite player early in their prime who'll likely be effective for the next 5 years. Sharks have Couture/Pavelski, Canucks have Kesler/Edler, and that alone should put them ahead of the Flames. The Wings are pretty terrible as well, but since the Wings have a better history of drafting/developing, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt over the Flames.

1. Flames
2. Wings

3. Sharks
4. Canucks
There may not be another Datsyuk or Zetterberg in the Wings farm system but if Kesler/Edler/Pavelski are the new bar for "elite" (which I disagree with) then there are plenty of prospects in the system that project to be near or beyond that level, and in the mean time Pavel and Zetterberg will still be effective for a few years.

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