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Is Horcoff more important than most of us think?

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:48 AM
  #76
Ragss
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He was utterly terrible against Chicago. Maybe just rust, but the play died on his stick a great many times.

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:50 AM
  #77
Arpeggio
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At least he was moving the puck to his wingers. I was one who thought Belanger and Horcoff were interchangeable, but they're not. Horcoff is miles better. Horcoff is also the best on the team in front of the net on the PP. It took him one game to prove that in my opinion. He actually keeps his stick down.

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03-11-2013, 04:03 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragss View Post
He was utterly terrible against Chicago. Maybe just rust, but the play died on his stick a great many times.
His battle in front of the net during the PP alone makes up for it.


I hate Horcoff, but I'm glad with his play this season. He has taken into his new depth role very well.

I'm glad he's back.

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:13 AM
  #79
Oiltankjob Fail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Oilers record with Horcoff in the lineup - 5 - 2 - 0.

Oilers record without Shawn Horcoff 5 - 9 - 5

Its a small sample size, but the team sure looked awful without him, coincidence or not. And I say that as a guy who has been pretty negative regarding Horcoff in the past. And likely again in the future.
Record is 5-2-1 with horcoff

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03-11-2013, 08:38 AM
  #80
nightfighter
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Winning faceoffs is really underrated. That's where horcoff is truly valuable on this team. He still can't skate and that play where he got pick pocketed late by hossa while clearing the zone almost cost us the lead. But everybody's got their roles and as long as horcoff plays his this team will be better.

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03-11-2013, 09:55 AM
  #81
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I said it last year, and I'll say it again, he is overpaid, but still an important piece of the equation. With 2 young soft centres ahead of him, we really need him in our lineup. He is miles ahead of Belanger, and with him in the lineup, we are able to split up our soft skill around into 3 lines rather than try to force them to play ineffectively together.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:17 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Record is 5-2-1 with horcoff
Thanks, must've missed one.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:26 PM
  #83
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I think Horcoff is definitely under appreciated here in Edmonton. Sure his 5.5m cap hit is too much; but most people just look at that number and all they care about is "why isn't he giving us 70 points?". Sure, he may not be able to produce a ~60 points per season like he did for that 3-4 year stretch, but his value is more than that. Besides, if we all know that he isn't a top 6 forward long term for this team, then why would anyone expect that kind of production from a 3rd line player who plays all the tough minutes and takes all the important faceoffs?

I think we keep Horcoff around, don't buy him out, because he seems like the "glue" guy for this team. I know it was only one game, but I think that last night might shut up some of the idiot "fans" that think Horcoff is completely useless.

Plus; if we aren't anywhere near the salary cap yet, what does it honestly matter if Horcoff is making 5.5m instead of 3m? By the time we have a bunch of huge contracts to worry about, Horcoff's will be done.


Last edited by Matt19Oilers: 03-11-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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Old
03-11-2013, 12:42 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragss View Post
He was utterly terrible against Chicago. Maybe just rust, but the play died on his stick a great many times.
sure he was rusty and his hand I'm sure is still bothering him, but he showed more heart and effort than 95% of the team did over the road trip.
I find it surprising you'd say he was terrible last night, especially considering he was the only oiler that could win a faceoff. He had half of the teams faceoff wins.

Gagner. 6 wins 35%
Smyth 4 wins 33%
Horcoff 12 wins 53%

that is value added right there.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:59 PM
  #85
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He is a guy who is where he is because of hockey intelligence and hard work, not form elite skill (physical or offensive). This shows when he is forced to go against guys with all three, but it also shows on our team where we may not have anybody that has all three.

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03-11-2013, 01:00 PM
  #86
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LOL, you just knew that the oilers would bag the 1st game with Horcoff back so everyone would jump back on the Horcoff love boat. Better sign him to an extension while we have the chance.

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:08 PM
  #87
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Horcoff is a good #3 center...he can win draws, excellent defensively and a dogged determination

little short on offence and obviously overpaid but he's a MASSIVE upgrade over Belanger in the 3 hole

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03-11-2013, 01:09 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
LOL, you just knew that the oilers would bag the 1st game with Horcoff back so everyone would jump back on the Horcoff love boat. Better sign him to an extension while we have the chance.
Just because he didn't kick all of our dogs doesn't mean we love him. We just don't have blind hate for him. Most of us have been pretty critical oh Horcoff in his tenure here since being named captain, it certainly isn't love.

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03-11-2013, 02:37 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gord View Post
sure he was rusty and his hand I'm sure is still bothering him, but he showed more heart and effort than 95% of the team did over the road trip.
I find it surprising you'd say he was terrible last night, especially considering he was the only oiler that could win a faceoff. He had half of the teams faceoff wins.

Gagner. 6 wins 35%
Smyth 4 wins 33%
Horcoff 12 wins 53%

that is value added right there.
Defensively speaking Horcs puck management was bad last night. Turned the puck over several times and even in own zone. At least a handful of times in the game last night Horc failed to get the puck out with time. additionally a few times he was picked in NZ last night and a notable time when it cost us an oddman break. I kept thinking who is this rookie 30something player.

I'll attribute it to rust but Horc has to think the game faster and was getting in trouble thinking he had time to move puck when its Chicago, and of course he didn't.

Other than that on faceoffs good, made good offensive plays, good puck support and heads up play on the goal.

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Old
03-11-2013, 05:09 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfighter View Post
Winning faceoffs is really underrated. That's where horcoff is truly valuable on this team. He still can't skate and that play where he got pick pocketed late by hossa while clearing the zone almost cost us the lead. But everybody's got their roles and as long as horcoff plays his this team will be better.
I said the same thing regarding faceoffs before the season started when everyone was saying buy out Horcoff. The only way it makes sense to buy out Horcoff is if you upgrade on his faceoffs and pking. An d at a cheaper cost.

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:05 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by McArthur View Post
No, but I have to ask... Did frodo die at the end of this story?
I laughed.

As for Horcoff... it makes sense that he brings a degree of stability to the roster given the number of young bucks on it. I'd like to think that he was assigned the captaincy for reasons other than his age, and that he bears influence on his teammates.

But that "stability" needs to be pretty game-changing if it's to overcome the stench of his numerous giveaways and whiffs on pucks last night.

The cost benefit analysis of last night's game: 3 "Go Horcoffs", 8 "D-oh Horcoffs"... which means -5 D-ohs.

By that irrefutable math, I'd say he's not worth having around.

But ask me after the Colorado game. It's kinda a "what have you done for me lately" thing.

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:10 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragss View Post
He was utterly terrible against Chicago. Maybe just rust, but the play died on his stick a great many times.
Lol wut?

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:07 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Defensively speaking Horcs puck management was bad last night. Turned the puck over several times and even in own zone. At least a handful of times in the game last night Horc failed to get the puck out with time. additionally a few times he was picked in NZ last night and a notable time when it cost us an oddman break. I kept thinking who is this rookie 30something player.

I'll attribute it to rust but Horc has to think the game faster and was getting in trouble thinking he had time to move puck when its Chicago, and of course he didn't.

Other than that on faceoffs good, made good offensive plays, good puck support and heads up play on the goal.
I dont think his finger is healed. But then again, how could it be. Knuckles dont grow back.

Hes going to have to learn how to play with one less finger.

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:10 PM
  #94
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Hes the PERFECT 3rd line center.. Is it possible to buy him out and re-sign him at 2.5M per?

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03-11-2013, 07:17 PM
  #95
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So wait, you mean the "theory" put forth that Horcoff purposely got injured isn't flying anymore?

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03-11-2013, 07:48 PM
  #96
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Hes the PERFECT 3rd line center.. Is it possible to buy him out and re-sign him at 2.5M per?
No it's not. You can't resign a bought out player for I believe 1 season. But since his cap isn't toooooo much of an issue, we could just suck it up and resign him for a lower amount once his current contract ends.

I'm still of the opinion to buy him out and use that money to sign 2 quality 3rd-4th liners though.

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Old
03-11-2013, 08:01 PM
  #97
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Ive always said Horcoff is a great 3rd line center. People hate on him too much because hes overpayed. Drop 2-2.5m off his contract and hes a player most every team wants. Good on the draw, takes heavy load of D workload, has enough offense to put up 30-40 pts.

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Old
03-11-2013, 08:37 PM
  #98
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Shawn Horcoff is not a very good player., The proof is in the pudding for years now., There are endless situations where he demonstates just how bad a player he is on the ice as well to the media., ie., never takes acoountabilty., yes Shawn we lost because of those 20 yr olds., how about trying to simply win more faceoffs than you loose., (and you probably won't even get hurt) this is a professional league where body contact and a check is permitted. Your suppose to be the captain and number 1 ctr man over the last few years, and we keep drafting 1st overall!!., why is that Shawn? the coaches , the kids, and guys please stop praising this dude that we win more games when hes in the line up., just look at the last 2 periods in the CHICAGO GAME, if you recorded it., he waas completely out to lunch ., couldn't keep up ., didn't even have the energy to simply get the puck out of the zone., instead of flipping it to a Black Hawk
the only reason he palyed a decsent 1st period is probably because he was well rested for a month., then reality took over

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03-11-2013, 08:41 PM
  #99
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I have always said Horcoff at ~4 Million is beloved by all.

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03-11-2013, 09:19 PM
  #100
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Here's who RNH has had to match up against in Horcoff's absence:

1/31 (SJS) - Thornton-Marleau-Pavelski (55%) - 1 point
2/2 (COL) - Duchene-McGinn-Parenteau (61%)
2/4 (VAN) - H.Sedin-D.Sedin-Kassian/Burrows (53%)
2/9 (DET) - Zetterberg-Brunner-Franzen (67%)
2/10 (CBJ) - Umberger-Brassard-Dorsett (41%) - 1 point
****funny game, because I think CBJ was using Dorsett to try and injure/punish/shut down RNH - he was literally on for 70% of RNH's shifts

2/12 (DAL) - (no real matchup game)
2/16 (COL) - Duchene-Mcginn-Parenteau (52%) - 1 point

2/21 (MIN) - Koivu-Parise-Heatley/Brodziak (55%)
2/23 (PHX) - Gordon-Moss-(winger) (59%)
2/25 (CHI) - (no real matchup game)
2/28 (DAL) - Roy-Roussel (54%)

3/1 (STL) - Backes-Schwartz-Oshie (61%)
3/3 (MIN) - Koivu-Parise-Coyle (60%)
3/5 (CBJ) - (no real matchup game) - 1 point
3/7 (DET) - Datsyuk-Abdelkader-Cleary (78%)
3/8 (NSH) - (no real matchup game)

He had 4 points in those 17 games, playing tough matchups without Horcoff

He has 6 points in 6 games when Horcoff has been in the line-up.
Here's who he spent the most time with in those games:
1/20 (VAN) - Andrew Ebbett
1/22 (SJS) - Logan Couture
1/24 (LAK) - M.Richards (trust me, much easier matchup than Kopitar)
1/26 (CGY) - Tanguay-Iginla-Glencross
1/28 (COL) - (no stats available)
3/10 (CHI) - Toews-Saad-Hossa (looked horrible)

And that, friends, is the Horcoff effect.


Last edited by The Perfect Human*: 03-11-2013 at 09:26 PM.
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