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Who's the Canes' MVP at the halfway point

View Poll Results: Who's the Canes' MVP at the halfway point
Eric Staal 36 40.45%
Alexander Semin 47 52.81%
Jiri Tlusty 4 4.49%
Jeff Skinner 0 0%
Other 2 2.25%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:01 PM
  #26
semin4captain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Made Punk View Post
It's Eric Staal, and it's not even close.

Take Semin off this team and it's still better than what we had last year, by virtue of Jordan > Sutter. But if you take Eric off of this team the roster just looks utterly terrible.

Semin makes Eric better, yes, but Eric IS the team. Without Eric Staal we're a lottery team every single year. Without Alex Semin we're a playoff bubble team.
Semin is a better hockey player than Eric Staal, so I don't see how this makes much sense.

I'd like to see Staal traded for Kovalchuk and Ward for Varlamov. I'm tired of having these Canadians on the team who always smile and rattle off cliches to the media but when it's time to make the playoffs in Game 82 they allow 4 goals on 17 shots or go -4.

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03-11-2013, 07:02 PM
  #27
Roboturner913
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Semin, easy. Staal is the only other real choice, but he's had a couple lulls and typical Eric Staal laziness from time to time. Semin is consistent and has only had maybe 1 1/2 bad games that I can recall.

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03-11-2013, 07:07 PM
  #28
Stephen Goalbert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
Semin is a better hockey player than Eric Staal, so I don't see how this makes much sense.

I'd like to see Staal traded for Kovalchuk and Ward for Varlamov. I'm tired of having these Canadians on the team who always smile and rattle off cliches to the media but when it's time to make the playoffs in Game 82 they allow 4 goals on 17 shots or go -4.
No he isn't. Eric Staal is the type of player you build a franchise around. Alex Semin is the type of player you add to the Eric Staal types of players to get the team off the ground.

And I'm the furthest thing there is from someone who is xenophobic toward Russian players. Semin is my favorite player on this team, and I defended him on the main boards long before he was a Hurricane.

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03-11-2013, 07:32 PM
  #29
Roboturner913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Made Punk View Post
No he isn't. Eric Staal is the type of player you build a franchise around. Alex Semin is the type of player you add to the Eric Staal types of players to get the team off the ground.
I agree with this thought. I still don't think it necessarily means that Semin has not been the best player on the team to this point in the season.

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03-11-2013, 07:38 PM
  #30
rocky7
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Semin. He not only makes the top line better, he makes all the players want to play better. Therefore by example anyway, he leads the team IMO. Happy about that but that said, he would be the first to say that the entire team needs to be firing. In fact, he has said that.

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03-11-2013, 08:11 PM
  #31
Joe McGrath
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I wrote a whole long paragraph explaining why Staal is the MVP, but it's a pointless argument. Just know this, the last half of last season was a similar scoring pace for Staal not playing with Semin, while Semin was doing jack ****. So ask yourself, who is making who better?

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03-11-2013, 08:15 PM
  #32
Stephen Goalbert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboturner913 View Post
I agree with this thought. I still don't think it necessarily means that Semin has not been the best player on the team to this point in the season.
Not only does "best" not mean "most valuable", but Staal has been better than Semin anyway.

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Old
03-11-2013, 08:18 PM
  #33
semin4captain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
I wrote a whole long paragraph explaining why Staal is the MVP, but it's a pointless argument. Just know this, the last half of last season was a similar scoring pace for Staal not playing with Semin, while Semin was doing jack ****. So ask yourself, who is making who better?
Semin had 33 points in the second half last year, playing about 17 minutes a game on a line mostly with Chimera and Perreault. If that's "jack ****" then Staal does jack **** every year.

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03-11-2013, 08:25 PM
  #34
Joe McGrath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
Semin had 33 points in the second half last year, playing about 17 minutes a game on a line mostly with Chimera and Perreault. If that's "jack ****" then Staal does jack **** every year.
Fair enough. Staal was better, playing with the guy you routinely refer to as a waste of a roster space and Tlusty. Now both are producing more. If you would stop going back and forth from trolling to being serious it would be less difficult to follow.

FWIW Semin's last 2 seasons were less productive than any season in Staal's career (after his rookie year)

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03-11-2013, 08:34 PM
  #35
semin4captain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
Fair enough. Staal was better, playing with the guy you routinely refer to as a waste of a roster space and Tlusty. Now both are producing more. If you would stop going back and forth from trolling to being serious it would be less difficult to follow.

FWIW Semin's last 2 seasons were less productive than any season in Staal's career (after his rookie year)
Semin's team was actually in the playoff hunt and thus didn't see back-ups every other game.

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03-11-2013, 08:39 PM
  #36
Joe McGrath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
Semin's team was actually in the playoff hunt and thus didn't see back-ups every other game.
So now that they are on the same team, same line, and one is still out producing the other what's the excuse now? How is it that Semin is the better player?

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03-11-2013, 08:39 PM
  #37
Boom Boom Anton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
Semin's team was actually in the playoff hunt and thus didn't see back-ups every other game.
So he should be scoring more than Staal this year then, right?

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03-11-2013, 08:42 PM
  #38
Anton Dubinchuk
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Going with Staal. Leading the team in points, leading the team in +/-.

I love Semin. But Staal is the leader of this team, and him leading the team in points sort of shows that.


Honorable mention to Dan Ellis, because he's the goaltender of the future. Wait, you're saying I just derailed this thread into a ****fest regarding our goaltending situation? How silly of me...

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03-11-2013, 08:44 PM
  #39
semin4captain
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Semin's career shooting percentage: 13.8
Semin this season: 8.8

Staal's career shooting percentage: 11.2
Staal this season: 14.6

Semin has been unlucky goalscoring wise and Staal lucky. Even with that Staal has a whole 4 more points than Semin.

Semin will finish with more points, no question.

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03-11-2013, 08:46 PM
  #40
Joe McGrath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
Semin's career shooting percentage: 13.8
Semin this season: 8.8

Staal's career shooting percentage: 11.2
Staal this season: 14.6

Semin has been unlucky goalscoring wise and Staal lucky. Even with that Staal has a whole 4 more points than Semin.

Semin will finish with more points, no question.
As long as there's no question

It's not like Semin is getting points on those "extra" Staal goals and Staal wouldn't get more assists with the goals Semin hasn't been scoring.

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Old
03-11-2013, 08:47 PM
  #41
Caniac125330
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Voted Semin, but I'd give it to the entire top line.

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03-11-2013, 08:50 PM
  #42
Roboturner913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Made Punk View Post
Not only does "best" not mean "most valuable".
In the context of Staal being the franchise center and captain, etc., I agree. But in that case you can never say anybody but Eric Staal will be MVP of the team until he leaves the team or retires, and I don't accept that. Remembe the thread title. I would rather just look at the 24 games that have been played and determine who has played the best. In my eyes that's Semin.

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03-11-2013, 09:42 PM
  #43
Zombie Mike Murphy
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I see Semin as rather Datsyukian. Sky high talent level, does lots of little things well, SUPER, SUPER valuable player (and I voted for him in the poll), but not the guy you build a franchise around. He's not a dominating player. What he DOES do is set your marquee players up to dominate. His skill opens up the ice and lets the other guys do their thing.

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03-11-2013, 10:03 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Made Punk View Post
No he isn't. Eric Staal is the type of player you build a franchise around. Alex Semin is the type of player you add to the Eric Staal types of players to get the team off the ground.

And I'm the furthest thing there is from someone who is xenophobic toward Russian players. Semin is my favorite player on this team, and I defended him on the main boards long before he was a Hurricane.
Look who you're arguing against and call it a night.There's no point in getting into it with somebody who doesn't believe most of what he says and only says it to stir the pot.

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03-11-2013, 10:18 PM
  #45
Mr Whipple
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Voted other.

Going to go in a very different direction from everyone else in this thread. Dan Ellis. He's the backup we've been calling for since, well, Ward became the starter. He held this team in when Ward struggled at the beginning of the season, and then now since Ward's injury is helping keep the team in the hunt. Without Ellis on this team, what would what Semin/Staal/Skinner/etc. do matter?

Can't think of a better definition of MVP than what Ellis has been to this team up to this point this season.

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03-11-2013, 10:37 PM
  #46
Zombie Mike Murphy
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If we finish well with Dan Ellis starting the remaining games I honestly have no problem with naming him MVP at the end of the season.

I do think that's a little premature.

Even with the injuries, we've still won way more games with Ward (9) than Ellis (4)

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03-11-2013, 10:52 PM
  #47
Jagee44
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Originally Posted by Troll Ward View Post
If we finish well with Dan Ellis starting the remaining games I honestly have no problem with naming him MVP at the end of the season.

I do think that's a little premature.

Even with the injuries, we've still won way more games with Ward (9) than Ellis (4)
To be fair Ward has started much more this season.

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03-11-2013, 10:52 PM
  #48
Mr Whipple
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True. But the question was who is the Canes' MVP for the first half of the season. Anyone could step up and be the Canes' MVP of the season the rest of the way.

Ward having more wins doesn't change things. A MVP isn't about who scores the most goals, or points, or necessarily any of the best stats. It's about the player that has contributed to a team's success the most to get them where they are. At least that's what I always have believed, and that's what I based my choice on, is who I think has done that.

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03-11-2013, 10:55 PM
  #49
Zombie Mike Murphy
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I'm just not seeing the argument at this point.

MVP has to, at some point, be about quantity of contribution. Even if we don't ice a goalie at all, and just went empty net for his 6 starts so far, we're still second in the division.

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03-11-2013, 11:31 PM
  #50
Mr Whipple
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Because it isn't about any 'quantity'. League MVPs tend to be based on that, because how else do you choose between players on different teams?

Team MVPs, however, can (not always) be based on how important a player is to a team's success. It doesn't have to be about numbers, or flash. There are ways to contribute other than on the scoresheet. A player that some may consider a scrub that doesn't score much or do anything fancy could be a team MVP because they are a player that can always be counted on to do the little things the team needs to win.

To me, Ellis has made a huge difference for the Canes this season. He hasn't played as much as Ward, but he has helped hold the team together when they needed him to. In the beginning, Ward completely sucked and was not ready to start the season. The team leaned on Ellis to help as Ward worked his way back into playing condition. Now the same with Ward out injured.

No, he hasn't won anything like a Cup, or any trophies, but again where would the Canes be without Ellis? They could have collapsed at the start of the season and already be looking forward to only a top draft pick at this point. When Ward went down, the team could have just given up and written off the rest of the season. Instead the team has continued to play at the same level they did before. Some might even argue better.

It's not much different than arguing that Semin would be MVP over Staal because he makes Staal a better player. Well, that's for one line. Ellis has made the entire team better.

Now, I'm sure many here will disagree with me, but to each their own. I think that's part of why the team is as successful as it is so far that there are several different players being talked about as being the MVP so far.

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