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Trade Kessel?

View Poll Results: Should Phil Kessel be traded?
Yes 194 51.60%
No 182 48.40%
Voters: 376. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-11-2013, 02:44 PM
  #751
Chandrashekhar Limit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KesselLooksLikeRadar View Post
Okay then, so, I'll say that this thread is all about who can we get who is better than Kessel (Or will be better than him) by trading him? You know that Anaheim fans wouldn't deal Perry for Kessel, so, realistically, for this guy who vanishes against physical d-men, who can we get that is an upgrade on him?

If we can't, then what is the point of just randomly trading a guy?
You don't have to trade him for someone better. If we can get two quality roster players (top 6 PWF + top 4 d), I'd still move him.

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03-11-2013, 02:48 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
I honestly can't see Nonis taking the risk of losing Kessel for nothing. If he signs with us, it'll be this offseason, or Nonis will unload him IMO.
Thats what I just said lol, no way in heck does Nonis give Kessel the kiss off without getting something back.

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03-11-2013, 02:59 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by superleafsfan View Post
Personally, I love our combination of speed, skill, and grit. Kessel may be invisible at times, but he's a threat to score every time he steps on the ice. Teams know this and must adjust their gameplan accordingly.

Kessel's speed and goal scoring abilities open up opportunities for other players. He adds another dimension to our team.


Lupul - career journeyman who had been traded numerous times for not living up to his potential. Plays on a line with Kessel and becomes an All-Star

JVR - underachieving winger who, until this season, has not had the success that people have hoped for. Now among the league leaders in goals, after being put on a line with Kessel.

Bozak - NCAA undrafted signing who has improved each year while being on a line with Kessel.
Good post, I never really thought it that way. You could consider Phil Kessel a sort of a castaway as well given how his relationship with Claude Julien and his subsequent refusal to resign at a very young age.

Honestly, I think Kessel has gotten pretty comfortable on this team. I think if Tyler Bozak is extended this off season, Kessel will follow in suit and sign a fair longterm contract. Just a hunch based off no tangible fact lol.

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03-11-2013, 03:30 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
The same people who have been talking about trading Kessel have for the most part being talking about it for a long time. Including last season after his career year. It has nothing to do with his most recent game or his recent point totals. There are people who consider his effort/style of play to not be conducive to winning, and that think he has a ton of trade value that should be maximized while it still can be.

The fact that the talk has died down is simply because it had been beaten to death for about a week. It usually goes in waves, people talk about it for a while, get sick of bickering back and forth over the exact same issues, and then a few weeks later it flares up again, with the same people arguing on both sides. So yea, I don't think anybodys opinion is going to be changed by one game. We all know he has the ability to put up 2-3 points in a game on a semi-regular basis, that hasn't changed in years.
Agreed. For most it has to do with who obtained him and what it cost.

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03-11-2013, 08:27 PM
  #755
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Watching Boston is just brutal these days. This game against the Sens Seguin and Hamilton look fantastic. This is going to eat at Leaf fans as long as Kessel is here.

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03-11-2013, 08:50 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by sommervr View Post
Watching Boston is just brutal these days. This game against the Sens Seguin and Hamilton look fantastic. This is going to eat at Leaf fans as long as Kessel is here.
Some Leaf fans, I suppose. It's not eating me. Lots of good players out there around the league that don't play for my team. But Kessel does, and I love watching him play, even more so as he continues to become a more complete player.

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03-11-2013, 08:53 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by draeko17 View Post
Some Leaf fans, I suppose. It's not eating me. Lots of good players out there around the league that don't play for my team. But Kessel does, and I love watching him play, even more so as he continues to become a more complete player.
This^

Everyone needs to drop this trade. We got fleeced. But we have fleeced teams. It happens. No one predicted the Leafs would have finished 2nd last. It's unfortunate.

Kessel is our best player, and despite his slow start of offensive production, he is a fun player to watch. He has loads of offensive skill, amazing shot, very good vision and playmaking skills, fast as a bullet. His one negative is defensive.

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03-11-2013, 09:07 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
This^

Everyone needs to drop this trade. We got fleeced. But we have fleeced teams. It happens. No one predicted the Leafs would have finished 2nd last. It's unfortunate.
exactly. the trade easily could have been kessel for ryan johansen + siemens which imo would be a steal. you win some you lose some.


Last edited by morrielly: 03-12-2013 at 01:44 AM.
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03-11-2013, 10:27 PM
  #759
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no one would be on Kessels back if he wasn't traded for 2 top 10 picks

it was one of the worst trades ever

but there is no reason to hate Kessel for it

Kessel isn't a superstar, but he will be an all-star for a long time

the guy just knows how to put the puck in the net

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03-11-2013, 10:57 PM
  #760
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it was one of the worst trades ever
Not even remotely close to the worst trade of all time. Gimme a break.

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03-11-2013, 10:59 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by sommervr View Post
Watching Boston is just brutal these days. This game against the Sens Seguin and Hamilton look fantastic. This is going to eat at Leaf fans as long as Kessel is here.
oh ya man, Seguin would of totally carried the Leafs on his back and pick up a cup


Seguin has one cup atm, he probably would of had...
well a lot of cups from his draft day

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03-12-2013, 12:09 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
This^

Everyone needs to drop this trade. We got fleeced. But we have fleeced teams. It happens. No one predicted the Leafs would have finished 2nd last. It's unfortunate.

Kessel is our best player, and despite his slow start of offensive production, he is a fun player to watch. He has loads of offensive skill, amazing shot, very good vision and playmaking skills, fast as a bullet. His one negative is defensive.
My main problem with Kessel is his compete level.Did you see how well he played Saturday,he worked his butt off.Where's that effort every game.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:02 AM
  #763
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Originally Posted by sommervr View Post
Watching Boston is just brutal these days. This game against the Sens Seguin and Hamilton look fantastic. This is going to eat at Leaf fans as long as Kessel is here.
BB did not trade Kessel for Seguin and Hamilton, he traded 2 picks, leafs fell apart finished low and the picks turned out to be good ones, BB rolled the dice and loss, no fleesing there, please get over it, I have.

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Old
03-12-2013, 04:29 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by black charger View Post
My main problem with Kessel is his compete level.Did you see how well he played Saturday,he worked his butt off.Where's that effort every game.
I'd rather blame the poor transition game due to not having a QB or Bozak not taking shots. He isn't Sidney Crosby who is really strong on the puck and could just and maintain pressure by holding the puck. Nor is he Sundin who used his long reach to retrieve the puck, cycle, and antagonized the opposing goalie.

To accommodate someone like him, you need to create a lot of traffic around the net. The transition game needs to be improved so that an attack can be established int he offensive zone. We need Phaneuf's rockets, JVR parked in front of the net at all times,Bozak SHOOTING and a QB to re-initiating the offensive by recovering pucks that reach the neutral zone.

We need maximized pressure against the opposition and attention drawn away from Kessel. Pass the puck to him and the opposition will just shut him down. He isn't going to be dangling passed opposition Grabovski or Kadri. Much more like Selanne, who was accommodated by Randy, and flourished.

Realize that if you meet those conditions, you'll see why Kessel is an elite goal scorer with potential playmaking abilities. You give him space and he can be more creative and enhance his linemates further. The fact that we're faster than our opponents means that we ought to use it to maintain offensive pressure. Gardiner/someone else needs to recover the puck, make the first-pass, and re-establish the attack like clockwork.

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03-12-2013, 07:31 AM
  #765
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
This^

Everyone needs to drop this trade. We got fleeced. But we have fleeced teams. It happens. No one predicted the Leafs would have finished 2nd last. It's unfortunate.

Kessel is our best player, and despite his slow start of offensive production, he is a fun player to watch. He has loads of offensive skill, amazing shot, very good vision and playmaking skills, fast as a bullet. His one negative is defensive.
No one? I guess the roster that Brian ripped apart in the media would come together and make the playoffs? Or was it perhaps our elite goaltender who would win us games? Or our first line center who would carry us on? Or perhaps our #1 d-man who would shut the opponents down? Or perhaps one of our many great leaders not worthy of the C who would step up and show the way?

Leafs had at the time one of the worst teams in the league missing so many key ingredients that a successful team needs that Burke was out of his mind to think otherwise and trade away 2 first round picks for a player we had no need for. It was a bad trade and the timing of it makes it one of the worst.

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03-12-2013, 07:41 AM
  #766
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
No one? I guess the roster that Brian ripped apart in the media would come together and make the playoffs? Or was it perhaps our elite goaltender who would win us games? Or our first line center who would carry us on? Or perhaps our #1 d-man who would shut the opponents down? Or perhaps one of our many great leaders not worthy of the C who would step up and show the way?

Leafs had at the time one of the worst teams in the league missing so many key ingredients that a successful team needs that Burke was out of his mind to think otherwise and trade away 2 first round picks for a player we had no need for. It was a bad trade and the timing of it makes it one of the worst.
From the previous season we had also lost Antropov, Kubina, and Moore.

Antropov at the time was arguably playing as well as Kessel, or even better. Kessel put up 60 points with Savard the year before, Antropov put up 59 points that season split between Tor/NY (28 goals to Kessels 36). Antropov was also better defensively and could handle the tough areas.

The contributions of guys like Antropov/Kubina/Moore (our best forward, our #1 D, and our ~3rd best forward) from the year before were all completely ignored as factors that could lead to us doing worse, and the potential contributions of Kessel were greatly overvalued.

Antropov @ 59 points with crappy linemates vs Kessel @ 60 pts with Savard as a linemate. Seems kinda absurd, but there really isn't a good argument for why Kessel should have been considered a better forward at the time or why we should have hoped to do better with Kessel as opposed to Antropov.

Disagree all you want, but the standings speak for themselves and the stats speak for themselves. Kessel the following year without Savard put up 30 goals and 55 points while being pretty terrible defensively, Antropov contributed more to the team winning the previous season than Kessel did in his 1st season here.

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03-12-2013, 07:45 AM
  #767
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He simply doesn't have a winning attitude and to be quite honest I feel the team will have a way better vibe without him.

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03-12-2013, 07:46 AM
  #768
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This is all so ridiculous. Does anyone really see Nonis trading a "regular" from this roster before the trade deadline?

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03-12-2013, 07:50 AM
  #769
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This is all so ridiculous. Does anyone really see Nonis trading a "regular" from this roster before the trade deadline?
Personally, I doubt Nonis is shopping Kessel, or the main pending UFAs Bozak/MacArthur.

In terms of players he's shopping, it would be Liles, Connolly, Steckel, and Komi. But I'm sure he's open to offers as well. So if a really good offer comes along, of course he'll look at it and weigh out the shortterm/longterm implications. That's his job.

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03-12-2013, 07:55 AM
  #770
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
No one? I guess the roster that Brian ripped apart in the media would come together and make the playoffs? Or was it perhaps our elite goaltender who would win us games? Or our first line center who would carry us on? Or perhaps our #1 d-man who would shut the opponents down? Or perhaps one of our many great leaders not worthy of the C who would step up and show the way?

Leafs had at the time one of the worst teams in the league missing so many key ingredients that a successful team needs that Burke was out of his mind to think otherwise and trade away 2 first round picks for a player we had no need for. It was a bad trade and the timing of it makes it one of the worst.
Agreed. Anyone with half a brain realized what a steaming pile of dog **** Burke inherited. It was his job to evaluate his team and decide where to go. It wasn't a very difficult evaluation, either. Sure, hockey isn't played on paper, but come on. That roster was downright hideous. Remember the top line of Ponikarovsky - Stajan - Blake?

Burke had the perfect opportunity to do slow rebuild and completely blew it by trading for Kessel, a player that with all his talent, only got us a 29th place finish. We would have finished dead last without Kessel's 30 goals. We didn't need Kessel at that point in time, and Kessel certainly didn't fit Burke's "truculent, pugnacity" philosophy, which makes it all the more baffling that he made this trade. If he had taken his time and did a proper rebuild, he'd probably still have a job right now.

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03-12-2013, 08:43 AM
  #771
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
No one? I guess the roster that Brian ripped apart in the media would come together and make the playoffs? Or was it perhaps our elite goaltender who would win us games? Or our first line center who would carry us on? Or perhaps our #1 d-man who would shut the opponents down? Or perhaps one of our many great leaders not worthy of the C who would step up and show the way?

Leafs had at the time one of the worst teams in the league missing so many key ingredients that a successful team needs that Burke was out of his mind to think otherwise and trade away 2 first round picks for a player we had no need for. It was a bad trade and the timing of it makes it one of the worst.
This.
Add to the fact that Kessel didn't even play the first couple of months (where we pretty much lost the season). How in the world can you trade 2 1st round picks away with Toskala still in net . Even at the time of the trade, MANY fans here questioned the trade given the timing and situation of the team.

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03-12-2013, 08:47 AM
  #772
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Originally Posted by sommervr View Post
Watching Boston is just brutal these days. This game against the Sens Seguin and Hamilton look fantastic. This is going to eat at Leaf fans as long as Kessel is here.
I'm sure there are many Leafs fans - myself included - who wish all the best for Seguin and Hamilton. It doesn't "eat me alive", that's for sure. We got ourselves a quality player in return, and that's how the cookie crumbles. It was like four years ago.. it's the absolute definition of water under the bridge.

Also: Calgary seems to have gotten over the Phaneuf trade.. so why can't some stubborn Leafs fans do the same.


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03-12-2013, 08:57 AM
  #773
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oh ya man, Seguin would of totally carried the Leafs on his back and pick up a cup


Seguin has one cup atm, he probably would of had...
well a lot of cups from his draft day
Nobody is saying Seguin would have carried the leafs to the promised land. However right now Seguin is a much more effective player than Kessel and Hamilton looks like be could be a top five defenceman someday.

As for getting over it this is a fan base that still talks about Barilko. Personally I am still not over the Tiger Williams trade. Perhaps you are new at this?
This will go down with the worst of the Ballard trades and that is saying something
As far as Kessel goes he will have the trade albatross around his neck. To further the nautical theme I think he will be a full out Jonah if we get blown out first round or don't make the playoffs.

If Bozak is not here I think there is zero chance he resigns so Kessel has even more overhead than his bad defence.

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03-12-2013, 09:02 AM
  #774
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Originally Posted by sommervr View Post
Nobody is saying Seguin would have carried the leafs to the promised land. However right now Seguin is a much more effective player than Kessel and Hamilton looks like be could be a top five defenceman someday.

As for getting over it this is a fan base that still talks about Barilko. Personally I am still not over the Tiger Williams trade. Perhaps you are new at this?
This will go down with the worst of the Ballard trades and that is saying something
As far as Kessel goes he will have the trade albatross around his neck. To further the nautical theme I think he will be a full out Jonah if we get blown out first round or don't make the playoffs.

If Bozak is not here I think there is zero chance he resigns so Kessel has even more overhead than his bad defence.
...based on?

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03-12-2013, 09:15 AM
  #775
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Originally Posted by sommervr View Post
Nobody is saying Seguin would have carried the leafs to the promised land. However right now Seguin is a much more effective player than Kessel and Hamilton looks like be could be a top five defenceman someday.

As for getting over it this is a fan base that still talks about Barilko. Personally I am still not over the Tiger Williams trade. Perhaps you are new at this?
This will go down with the worst of the Ballard trades and that is saying something
As far as Kessel goes he will have the trade albatross around his neck. To further the nautical theme I think he will be a full out Jonah if we get blown out first round or don't make the playoffs.

If Bozak is not here I think there is zero chance he resigns so Kessel has even more overhead than his bad defence.
obviously you aren't old enough to remember the Ballard days. or maybe you're too old and aren't all there anymore?

it appears the Leafs lost this trade, but there are 100 others worse because the return was a lot less than one of the league's elite scorers.

Christ, worst that the Ballard trades...

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