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03-11-2013, 08:09 PM
  #1
leaponover
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Isles fan (paper bag and all) asking for feedback

Hey,
I read that Ellis has been relegated to third pair minutes and hasn't panned out as a replacement for Suter. Obviously I have no idea what your depth is at defense and who you have waiting in the wings in the minors. We have a guy who hasn't panned out for us either but some say still has potential. What are your thoughts on this proposal?

From NY Islanders:

F Josh Bailey

From Nashville Predators:

D Ryan Ellis


Seem like a fair trade in your opinion? I am not sure about Ellis' contract. Bailey is due to be an RFA so he isn't going anywhere...

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03-11-2013, 08:18 PM
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worstfaceoffmanever
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Ellis is still on his ELC. Regardless, Bailey is nowhere close to what the Predators need, and Ellis has far more upside as a defenseman than Bailey does as a forward. At no point in his previous four seasons or in this one has he shown any kind of high-end offensive ability that the Predators could use. Nashville needs a proven player and, I hope, is willing to pay top dollar for such a player.

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03-11-2013, 08:22 PM
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leaponover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Ellis is still on his ELC. Regardless, Bailey is nowhere close to what the Predators need, and Ellis has far more upside as a defenseman than Bailey does as a forward. At no point in his previous four seasons or in this one has he shown any kind of high-end offensive ability that the Predators could use. Nashville needs a proven player and, I hope, is willing to pay top dollar for such a player.
So you think Ellis at this point in his career warrants "high end" offensive abilities in return? Not an attack, just wondering if the fan base shares that attitude on Ellis. Many on my boards still think Bailey should bring a high return, whereas I do not. I think he may still have the potential to be a 2nd line winger but more likely a third line center. Do people still think Ellis is a stud over there?

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03-11-2013, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
Hey,
I read that Ellis has been relegated to third pair minutes and hasn't panned out as a replacement for Suter. Obviously I have no idea what your depth is at defense and who you have waiting in the wings in the minors. We have a guy who hasn't panned out for us either but some say still has potential. What are your thoughts on this proposal?

From NY Islanders:

F Josh Bailey

From Nashville Predators:

D Ryan Ellis


Seem like a fair trade in your opinion? I am not sure about Ellis' contract. Bailey is due to be an RFA so he isn't going anywhere...
I want Johnny T

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03-11-2013, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
So you think Ellis at this point in his career warrants "high end" offensive abilities in return? Not an attack, just wondering if the fan base shares that attitude on Ellis. Many on my boards still think Bailey should bring a high return, whereas I do not. I think he may still have the potential to be a 2nd line winger but more likely a third line center. Do people still think Ellis is a stud over there?
Yes, we still think Ellis is a stud. He's not supposed to be usurping Suter, that's been Josi and it's been that way all along. Ellis doesn't have the two-way game to do that while Josi potentially does. Ellis still has his elite offensive IQ though and if we were to trade him I'd want a forward with a scoring touch. Certainly wouldn't trade him for just any Josh Bailey or MPS.

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I want Johnny T
Ignore him.

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03-11-2013, 08:40 PM
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I can say that I would gladly give up Gill and Hannan though.

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03-11-2013, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
Hey,
I read that Ellis has been relegated to third pair minutes and hasn't panned out as a replacement for Suter.
Back up a second, where did you read this? It couldn't be further from the truth.

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03-11-2013, 08:48 PM
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Ellis has looked fine so far this season. As another poster said his role is not to replace Suter, that honor belongs to Josi.

Also Ellis is producing better offensively then Bailey as a defenseman.

So definitely no deal

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03-11-2013, 09:09 PM
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Bailey, pass. Okposo, on the other hand, Im sure we could figure something out.

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03-11-2013, 11:11 PM
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worstfaceoffmanever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
So you think Ellis at this point in his career warrants "high end" offensive abilities in return? Not an attack, just wondering if the fan base shares that attitude on Ellis. Many on my boards still think Bailey should bring a high return, whereas I do not. I think he may still have the potential to be a 2nd line winger but more likely a third line center. Do people still think Ellis is a stud over there?
We don't need second or third line centers, that's the thing - we need a definitive solution to our offensive woes. But yes, Ellis has played just fine and still has not reached his ceiling. His offensive numbers are actually slightly better than Bailey's at the moment.

Just to drive the point home, Nashville is the worst offensive team in the league, and Bailey would be our 12th-best scorer by total points, on par with the likes of Brandon Yip and Nick Spaling. That's not a worthwhile investment for the Predators at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CantbeatzPekka View Post
Bailey, pass. Okposo, on the other hand, Im sure we could figure something out.
Okposo is not the definitive solution we're looking for either. He's promising, but he's just another 20-25 goal scorer who's strong on the puck. We have a couple of those already, and there's no point in throwing around assets to create redundancies right now. We're not a contender, and we don't have the high-end talent that maximizes the effectiveness of a player like Okposo.

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03-11-2013, 11:37 PM
  #11
PredsV82
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no offense but this is a pretty classic example of a fan with some inaccurate assumptions trying to make trade proposals based on those assumptions.

Ellis is still very early in his development and is a projected future PP quarterback/2nd pair offensive minded d-man. He appears to be on track and in a couple of years should well established

IMHO Ellis only gets traded if we are offered a star forward, otherwise hes in the long term plans here.


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 03-12-2013 at 12:24 AM. Reason: that was plenty to make the point
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Old
03-12-2013, 12:37 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
Hey,
I read that Ellis has been relegated to third pair minutes and hasn't panned out as a replacement for Suter. Obviously I have no idea what your depth is at defense and who you have waiting in the wings in the minors. We have a guy who hasn't panned out for us either but some say still has potential. What are your thoughts on this proposal?

From NY Islanders:

F Josh Bailey

From Nashville Predators:

D Ryan Ellis


Seem like a fair trade in your opinion? I am not sure about Ellis' contract. Bailey is due to be an RFA so he isn't going anywhere...
First, I'm definitely not trying to just tear your proposal apart.

Second, Ellis has not been relegated to third pairing time. He played third pairing minutes last season as well. He has holes in his game that can best be hidden with third pairing minutes. His strengths allow him to be used a lot on the PP (not that it is helping this season).

Third, Josi has been viewed as Suter's replacement, not Ellis. There's no reason to worry about Ellis and his development right now.

As far as needs are concerned, especially among the forwards, we need a top center more than anything else. A game breaking winger would do just fine, but we aren't getting that for Ellis alone (or from NYI to be honest).

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:54 AM
  #13
leaponover
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Back up a second, where did you read this? It couldn't be further from the truth.
He is on my fantasy league in Yahoo and it is straight from their player notes....

Cut and paste:

Mon, Mar 11

Ellis has just six points (2G, 4A) in 25 games so far this season and has not hit the scoresheet in his last 11 games.

Recommendation: Ellis' results thus far have to be considered a huge disappointment for a guy who was listed as one of the favorites to step into Ryan Suter's shoes this season. Ellis now routinely plays on the Preds' third defensive pairing and has not seen any real power play time for the past four games. If you were counting on Ellis to finally break through this season, it looks like you're going to have to put those expectations on hold for a while longer.

(Rotowire.com)



So I guess they get it from rotowire.

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03-12-2013, 01:57 AM
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leaponover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
no offense but this is a pretty classic example of a fan with some inaccurate assumptions trying to make trade proposals based on those assumptions.

Ellis is still very early in his development and is a projected future PP quarterback/2nd pair offensive minded d-man. He appears to be on track and in a couple of years should well established

IMHO Ellis only gets traded if we are offered a star forward, otherwise hes in the long term plans here.

Obviously I'm basing my opinion on actual advice from a legitimate source, not assuming. So no this isn't a good example of that. I understand you may have thought it was assumptions but I have provided the source now. Sorry I didn't do that originally. I guess I didn't realize their were differing opinions on his play, but that I definitely should have assumed.

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03-12-2013, 02:00 AM
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leaponover
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Ok, I have a better idea now that he is still regarded a blue chip prospect in your neck of the woods. Thanks for letting me know

I really just wanted to get a good gauge and even though I didn't get a lot of responses I got a pretty good answer. Thanks to all and good luck on the playoff push...

PS feel free to keep giving input about Ellis on here if you didn't yet do so. I will check back...

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03-12-2013, 02:37 AM
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I have never heard of Ellis being the next Suter ever. We have Josi for that designation. Ellis has been on the 3rd pairing the entire time too, protected for now. We still have very high hopes for him and generally dmen take longer to develop anyways. We are in no hurry to rush him right now nor move him and give up. Blum may be available at some point however, imo.

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03-12-2013, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
Recommendation: Ellis' results thus far have to be considered a huge disappointment for a guy who was listed as one of the favorites to step into Ryan Suter's shoes this season. Ellis now routinely plays on the Preds' third defensive pairing and has not seen any real power play time for the past four games. If you were counting on Ellis to finally break through this season, it looks like you're going to have to put those expectations on hold for a while longer.
What a stupid comment by Rotowire.

Anyone who follows the Preds semi-closely knew that Josi was the guy that was going to be counted on to replace Suter.

Finally break through? He just turned 22 and has less than 60 games of NHL experience. He was in the OHL less than two years ago. It's not like he's a 28 year old 5th year player that people are still waiting to break out. He's a baby in the NHL. That whole thing from Rotowire is ridiculous.

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Old
03-12-2013, 06:10 AM
  #18
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lol, so a undersized puck moving defenseman was supposed to replace Suter after 1/2 of a rookie season?

How old do they think Ellis is?

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03-12-2013, 07:39 AM
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When all is said and done Ellis is going to be a top 4 defenseman. And while we may overvalue him, there is one thing for sure we know in Nashville thats defensemen. We can't spell Ofen, Ofound, Oshoot, you now the guys who score. Ellis will be going nowhere until he is a f/a.

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03-12-2013, 07:42 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
He is on my fantasy league in Yahoo and it is straight from their player notes....

Cut and paste:

Mon, Mar 11

Ellis has just six points (2G, 4A) in 25 games so far this season and has not hit the scoresheet in his last 11 games.

Recommendation: Ellis' results thus far have to be considered a huge disappointment for a guy who was listed as one of the favorites to step into Ryan Suter's shoes this season. Ellis now routinely plays on the Preds' third defensive pairing and has not seen any real power play time for the past four games. If you were counting on Ellis to finally break through this season, it looks like you're going to have to put those expectations on hold for a while longer.

(Rotowire.com)



So I guess they get it from rotowire.
Hey, kiddo, you might want to turn elsewhere for fantasy advice. This is way off the mark. I wouldn't consider him a huge disappointment. He's a developing young player that was never tapped to replace Suter.

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03-12-2013, 08:52 AM
  #21
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Agree with what everyone else is saying regarding Ellis. He's fine and just getting better.

I think he "could" be moved, but the only way I see that is in a package type deal for
someone who would actually improve our offense now.
Bailey doesn't do that and we'd take a hit on D.

Makes no sense imho.

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03-12-2013, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
Obviously I'm basing my opinion on actual advice from a legitimate source, not assuming. So no this isn't a good example of that. I understand you may have thought it was assumptions but I have provided the source now. Sorry I didn't do that originally. I guess I didn't realize their were differing opinions on his play, but that I definitely should have assumed.
well then youre source is crap, as several other posters have demonstrated, and so you made an assumption that the source was accurate, and its not. same difference.

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03-12-2013, 10:10 AM
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Fantasy league scouting reports are often done by less than equitable people whos opinion is often skewed. If Ellis were a Leaf he would be then next Scott Stevens (sarcasm intended). A players worth is often less about what shows up in the boxscore unless it is in a fantasy league.

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03-12-2013, 12:51 PM
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Oh pooh... I thought this was a thread bout a plan for us to wear paper bags on our headsCarry on

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03-12-2013, 01:37 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
He is on my fantasy league in Yahoo and it is straight from their player notes....

Cut and paste:

Mon, Mar 11

Ellis has just six points (2G, 4A) in 25 games so far this season and has not hit the scoresheet in his last 11 games.

Recommendation: Ellis' results thus far have to be considered a huge disappointment for a guy who was listed as one of the favorites to step into Ryan Suter's shoes this season. Ellis now routinely plays on the Preds' third defensive pairing and has not seen any real power play time for the past four games. If you were counting on Ellis to finally break through this season, it looks like you're going to have to put those expectations on hold for a while longer.

(Rotowire.com)



So I guess they get it from rotowire.
Ok, your post makes more sense now. This rotowire advice is very bad. It sounds like they confused Josi with Ellis, in addition to simply giving out bad advice. Ellis has solidified himself as a bottom pairing PP specialist with a sound defensive game. He has actually exceeded the expectations of some and has been getting more ice time lately, not less. Ellis's development is right on track and has not been disappointing at all.

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