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Old
03-11-2013, 06:10 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
If you buy into the theory that Ruff likes certain types of players, I don't think you can hold Darcy 100% accountable for the roster construct.

Specifically the lack of leadership and strong voices, as per Paul Hamilton's report about Ruff not liking that type of player and recent reports about Rolston saying how "quiet" the team is. Darcy was feeding Ruff what he wanted. I prefer to see how this plays out with him and no Ruff input.
The clock is ticking on that...

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03-11-2013, 06:17 PM
  #127
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Not even remotely ticking. A proper culture change (that started last year) can take awhile, and takes resources which are now available. as Jame has said, that heroic playoff run that started right when Pegula took over did so much damage to this franchise that we're going to be digging out from it for at least 1-2 more seasons. It fostered the belief that this team was closer and not farther away. The UFA signings made after were irresponsible in that regard.

It's going the right direction now.

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03-11-2013, 06:52 PM
  #128
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While I believe Ruff had some say in personnel, Regier built this ****bag roster and he intended for it to compete this year. In that regard, he's failed miserably. No playoffs in four of six years is a poor track record. It's time for a new direction.

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03-11-2013, 07:00 PM
  #129
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Why did so many of Darcy's acquisitions end up not playing a lot?


I can't believe this is even a discussion at this point... This team is absolute garbage and it's 100% Darcy's team.

I guarantee we are in the same boat next year if he stays.

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03-11-2013, 07:22 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
Not even remotely ticking. A proper culture change (that started last year) can take awhile, and takes resources which are now available. as Jame has said, that heroic playoff run that started right when Pegula took over did so much damage to this franchise that we're going to be digging out from it for at least 1-2 more seasons. It fostered the belief that this team was closer and not farther away. The UFA signings made after were irresponsible in that regard.

It's going the right direction now.
the single worst thing to happen to this franchise was the timing of the Pegula purchase...

we should've bottomed out that year, landed Couturier, and cleaned house...

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03-11-2013, 07:24 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Why did so many of Darcy's acquisitions end up not playing a lot?


I can't believe this is even a discussion at this point... This team is absolute garbage and it's 100% Darcy's team.

I guarantee we are in the same boat next year if he stays.
i guarantee we are in the same boat next year regardless

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03-11-2013, 08:03 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Why did so many of Darcy's acquisitions end up not playing a lot?
Boyes?? Torres?? Moore?? Bernier??

Because of Ruff. That's not on Darcy, none of those guys were given a fair shake here.

It wasn't until Darcy started dealing Ruff's standbys (Roy, Gaustad) that he was forced to think differently.

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03-11-2013, 08:49 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
Boyes?? Torres?? Moore?? Bernier??

Because of Ruff. That's not on Darcy, none of those guys were given a fair shake here.

It wasn't until Darcy started dealing Ruff's standbys (Roy, Gaustad) that he was forced to think differently.
I don't think that's entirely fair. I think Moore got a fair shake a played well in his limited time here (giving us a real 3rd line center). The others? Underwhelming, IMO.

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03-11-2013, 10:51 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by slip View Post
I don't think that's entirely fair. I think Moore got a fair shake a played well in his limited time here (giving us a real 3rd line center). The others? Underwhelming, IMO.
Moore showed up with a broken wrist so you couldn't exactly expect him to perform that well. Bernier, and Torres didn't perform as expected with Torres being out of shape and Bernier just not that good. He's pretty much has been a 4th liner since leaving Buffalo

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03-11-2013, 10:57 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Old Navy Goat View Post
Moore showed up with a broken wrist so you couldn't exactly expect him to perform that well. Bernier, and Torres didn't perform as expected with Torres being out of shape and Bernier just not that good. He's pretty much has been a 4th liner since leaving Buffalo
Funny story ... Two games after Bernier scored those two goals in his first game, I saw a couple pinheads running around with Bernier jerseys at the arena



That knee jerk reaction crap just makes me laugh

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:17 PM
  #136
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I don't think that's entirely fair. I think Moore got a fair shake a played well in his limited time here (giving us a real 3rd line center). The others? Underwhelming, IMO.
I think boyes really got ****ed by lindy, he's had success in St. louis and now in new york

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03-11-2013, 11:20 PM
  #137
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I think boyes really got ****ed by lindy, he's had success in St. louis and now in new york
I kind of think they both screwed each other. Boyes didn't perform on the PP and couldn't handle the center position so kept getting sent further down the lines. He's getting fed minutes with Tavares so is doing better and he wouldn't have been moved from St Louis if he was performing as warranted by his contract as the younger kids supplanted his ice time.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:25 PM
  #138
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I'll stand by my claim that Darcy initiated the rebuild last deadline. I'm sure he didn't think that they'd be so bad, but this is what it is, and that's a marked departure from personnel strategy 2005-2011.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:41 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
I'll stand by my claim that Darcy initiated the rebuild last deadline. I'm sure he didn't think that they'd be so bad, but this is what it is, and that's a marked departure from personnel strategy 2005-2011.
I'm with you in that he has initiated it. But I've lost a lot of patience with him in watching this team this year. There are a ton of moves that need to be made in the "tougher to play against" department.

He needs to go on a selling spree this deadline to regain my full, unwavering support.

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03-12-2013, 01:00 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
If you buy into the theory that Ruff likes certain types of players, I don't think you can hold Darcy 100% accountable for the roster construct.

Specifically the lack of leadership and strong voices, as per Paul Hamilton's report about Ruff not liking that type of player and recent reports about Rolston saying how "quiet" the team is. Darcy was feeding Ruff what he wanted. I prefer to see how this plays out with him and no Ruff input.
You just can't let go of your whipping boy Ruff can you.


This roster is on Regier. Ruff had a say but give me a break with the "Ruff didn't want leaders or outspoken players on the team" crap.

So Ruff likes quiet types and he controlled the roster. So logically he said "go get me Steve Ott".

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03-12-2013, 01:04 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
You just can't let go of your whipping boy Ruff can you.


This roster is on Regier. Ruff had a say but give me a break with the "Ruff didn't want leaders or outspoken players on the team" crap.

So Ruff likes quiet types and he controlled the roster. So logically he said "go get me Steve Ott".
It is indeed Regier's roster, but I think it was well known that Lindy had input on personnel decisions/preferences or what have you, isn't it?

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03-12-2013, 01:18 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
Boyes?? Torres?? Moore?? Bernier??

Because of Ruff. That's not on Darcy, none of those guys were given a fair shake here.

It wasn't until Darcy started dealing Ruff's standbys (Roy, Gaustad) that he was forced to think differently.
Steve Bernier?

07-08 --> .39ppg with Sharks before getting traded to Buffalo
07-08 --> .53ppg with Sabres in 16gms
08-09 --> .39ppg with Nucks
09-10 --> .37ppg with Nucks
10-11 --> .22ppg with Panthers
11-12 --Started season in AHL

I don't think Ruff was the problem.

Moore had a broken wrist as has already been mentioned.


Last edited by joshjull: 03-12-2013 at 02:29 AM.
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Old
03-12-2013, 01:23 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
It is indeed Regier's roster, but I think it was well known that Lindy had input on personnel decisions/preferences or what have you, isn't it?
I just said that in the post you quoted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
You just can't let go of your whipping boy Ruff can you

This roster is on Regier. Ruff had a say but give me a break with the "Ruff didn't want leaders or outspoken players on the team" crap.

So Ruff likes quiet types and he controlled the roster. So logically he said "go get me Steve Ott".

I was taking issue with his "theory" on the types of players Lindy wanted or didn't want.

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03-12-2013, 01:34 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I just said that in the post you quoted.




I was taking issue with his "theory" on the types of players Lindy wanted or didn't want.
Yeah I missed that. My bad.

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03-12-2013, 01:54 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
the single worst thing to happen to this franchise was the timing of the Pegula purchase...

we should've bottomed out that year, landed Couturier, and cleaned house...

Could you be more ridiculously hyperbolic?

So the single worst thing to happen to this franchise was not doing bad enough in 10-11 to be able to draft Couturier?


Last edited by joshjull: 03-12-2013 at 02:29 AM.
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Old
03-12-2013, 02:20 AM
  #146
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i guarantee we are in the same boat next year regardless
I would be shocked if we are in the same boat. Or if we are, that Regier still has a job.

I'm also a tad surprised that you, someone that thinks Darcy is the man for the job based on his past rebuild, thinks he would allow the team to fall off like that two years in a row. Just look at his last rebuild.

We are currently a decade out from Regier's biggest year as GM of this team. 2003 is the year he traded for Briere (March 10th) before trade deadline, drafted Vanek at #5 (June draft) and then traded for Drury on July 3rd. After finishing 26th in the league at the end of the 02-03 season thus getting the 5th pick overall. We were in 9th place the following season on our way back to being a playoff team.

In other words, the guy you want to turn the franchise around did it faster back then than you seem to think he will be able to do it now. Back then he didn't have the tools at his disposal that he has now. Nor did he need 2 or more crap season to make the rebuild happen.

So as I said, I would be shocked if we were in the same place we are now at the same time next year. Or if we are I doubt Regier has a job.


IMO its going to take another 2003 going forward or something close to it for Regier to keep his job.


Last edited by joshjull: 03-12-2013 at 02:38 AM.
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Old
03-12-2013, 02:43 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Could you be more ridiculously hyperbolic?

So the single worst thing to happen to this franchise was not doing bad enough in 10-11 to be able to draft Couturier?
Couturier is quickly molding himself into a defensive center sort of niche, and not that all around, dynamic-offense-to-boot player that put up back to back 96pt seasons with Drummondville. Would love him, don't get me wrong, but he's not going to be a franchise changing player in the mold of a Stamkos.

Surely those who adore him were expecting more than 2g, 5a through 25gp in his sophomore campaign.


Last edited by jBuds: 03-12-2013 at 02:48 AM.
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03-12-2013, 02:47 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I would be shocked if we are in the same boat. Or if we are, that Regier still has a job.

I'm also a tad surprised that you, someone that thinks Darcy is the man for the job based on his past rebuild, thinks he would allow the team to fall off like that two years in a row. Just look at his last rebuild.

We are currently a decade out from Regier's biggest year as GM of this team. 2003 is the year he traded for Briere (March 10th) before trade deadline, drafted Vanek at #5 (June draft) and then traded for Drury on July 3rd. After finishing 26th in the league at the end of the 02-03 season thus getting the 5th pick overall. We were in 9th place the following season on our way back to being a playoff team.

In other words, the guy you want to turn the franchise around did it faster back then than you seem to think he will be able to do it now. Back then he didn't have the tools at his disposal that he has now. Nor did he need 2 or more crap season to make the rebuild happen.

So as I said, I would be shocked if we were in the same place we are now at the same time next year. Or if we are I doubt Regier has a job.


IMO its going to take another 2003 going forward or something close to it for Regier to keep his job.
But in order for that to be judged, he'd have to be on the job for another three years minimum, no? Nobody knew in '03 what Briere and Dru would mean to the team by 2005. I don't see how the bolded is really something to point to without assuming Regier is staying put to see it through.

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Old
03-12-2013, 04:30 AM
  #149
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When did I run out of patience? Before the 11-12 season. This is getting absurd, I'd sack him tomorrow and ride out the season with an interim.

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03-12-2013, 07:19 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by littletonhockeycoach View Post
Yes, in hindsight (for me), this should have happened on day 1 of the Pegula era.

Best time to clean house is when new management arrives and takes over the show.

It has to be apparent to all that this wait and see/trial period has turned out to be a waste of 2 years.

Insanity = doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

Exactly, was too lazy to elaborate but that's what i had in my mind.

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