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Old
03-11-2013, 12:08 PM
  #301
Stugots
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan87 View Post
I'm kind of new to international soccer, but have picked up Tottenham as my team. My cousins are from the area and have really gotten me interested in them. I gotta say, I played for 11 years and could never get into professional soccer until I saw it internationally. I'm hooked
Same here. I played as a youth from elementary school through high school and I've just gotten into the Premier League, Champions League, and Serie A the last 3-4 years. I realized that I was never into watching professional soccer-even though I loved the sport- because the MLS is really crappy. I mean, I'll watch games if they're on but the European leagues are so much more entertaining. With Fox Soccer and ESPN showing more games I've been able to follow the European leagues more. I believe NBC Sports has a deal with the BPL next season too so that should be awesome.

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03-11-2013, 02:32 PM
  #302
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Same here. I played as a youth from elementary school through high school and I've just gotten into the Premier League, Champions League, and Serie A the last 3-4 years. I realized that I was never into watching professional soccer-even though I loved the sport- because the MLS is really crappy. I mean, I'll watch games if they're on but the European leagues are so much more entertaining. With Fox Soccer and ESPN showing more games I've been able to follow the European leagues more. I believe NBC Sports has a deal with the BPL next season too so that should be awesome.
It's amazing how MLS is thought of more highly over in Europe compared to how it is thought of in its own country.

15 years ago, MLS was garbage. 7 years ago, it was slightly better but still bad. 4 years ago it was slightly better.

Now it's pretty solid.. Which is why you see so many of the European teams struggle when they play MLS teams during the summer and also going after so many different MLS players.


It's not the EPL yet but no league in the world is... It's certainly better than the SPL (coming from a Celtic supporter) and several of the other leagues over there. Keeps getting shown clearly by supposed EPL stars coming over here and performing like **** regardless of age.

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03-11-2013, 02:39 PM
  #303
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I have no complaint about MLS quality, nor do I feel the need to root for "The best of the best" in any sport.

I'd rather root for an average ny/nj team than a London or Catalonia team that I have no connection to. The aggregate league quality means little to me, although MLS is certainly improving. We have payers who are decent but unspectacular in our league going to the EPL and having instant success (Kamara, Cameron, Ream)

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03-11-2013, 02:45 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
It's amazing how MLS is thought of more highly over in Europe compared to how it is thought of in its own country.

15 years ago, MLS was garbage. 7 years ago, it was slightly better but still bad. 4 years ago it was slightly better.

Now it's pretty solid.. Which is why you see so many of the European teams struggle when they play MLS teams during the summer and also going after so many different MLS players.


It's not the EPL yet but no league in the world is... It's certainly better than the SPL (coming from a Celtic supporter) and several of the other leagues over there. Keeps getting shown clearly by supposed EPL stars coming over here and performing like **** regardless of age.
The best MLS team would struggle to stay up in the EPL. It's gotten better but still not even worth mentioning in the same breath as top flight European pyramids. Several issues hold the MLS back. Firstly, the Improper schedule. Club competitions are to take place through the winter not summer. Summer is reserved for international competitions and qualifiers. Top international players are not going to choose to play in the MLS over the World Cup, European Championship or even qualifiers. Second, there's no pyramid. All the MLS clubs are married and locked to eachother like the other big 4 North American leagues. This is mostly to do with geography. America is far too big and soccer far too unpopular to support the hundreds of clubs it would take to make a pyramid. Lastly, the league champion is not to be determined via tournament. Any team can win a cup competition, see the FA Cup. The league title is supposed to be reserved for the best team, not the hottest team. You demonstrate your worth over the entire season.

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03-11-2013, 03:32 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
The best MLS team would struggle to stay up in the EPL. It's gotten better but still not even worth mentioning in the same breath as top flight European pyramids. Several issues hold the MLS back. Firstly, the Improper schedule. Club competitions are to take place through the winter not summer. Summer is reserved for international competitions and qualifiers. Top international players are not going to choose to play in the MLS over the World Cup, European Championship or even qualifiers. Second, there's no pyramid. All the MLS clubs are married and locked to eachother like the other big 4 North American leagues. This is mostly to do with geography. America is far too big and soccer far too unpopular to support the hundreds of clubs it would take to make a pyramid. Lastly, the league champion is not to be determined via tournament. Any team can win a cup competition, see the FA Cup. The league title is supposed to be reserved for the best team, not the hottest team. You demonstrate your worth over the entire season.
The only thing I agree with is the concept of playoffs. For whatever reason, American sports fans want some type of playoff when the best team should simply be considered the team with the best record over the entire season. That said, it's not changing.

As to the comparison aspect, a team like Seattle would stay up in the EPL easily. So would several others. Not so a handful of years ago, but absolutely the case now. The only thing that holds some teams back is the salary cap.


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Old
03-11-2013, 03:37 PM
  #306
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We can't sustain teams with 500 million dollars in debt in this country. Sports are not above the law here, at least soccer isn't.

USA fans want playoffs because they want unpredictability. Not one of 2-five teams winning every year. "Staying in the top division" is not an objective for sports that is part of the American culture. Not saying it is better or worse, it just is.

As an objective viewer I wouldn't see the point in supporting a SPL team that wasn't Celtic'Rangers, or a Portuguese team that wasn't Porto/Sporting/Benefica.

America is a big country. People in Detroit don't want to support a team in LA just because they win all the time.

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03-11-2013, 03:49 PM
  #307
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I can't see any MLS club sticking around in the Premiership for more than a season. Maybe, maybe in the Bundesliga. Not the BPL or La Liga though.

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03-11-2013, 03:51 PM
  #308
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I think the LA Galaxy with Donovan and maybe the addition of a Lampard is better than QPR, Reading, Wigan. Still, they have a ways to go. Have to win CCL before being taken totally seriously. Get a name into the Fifa Club World Cup and build from there.

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03-11-2013, 04:20 PM
  #309
ChipAyten
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I think the LA Galaxy with Donovan and maybe the addition of a Lampard is better than QPR, Reading, Wigan. Still, they have a ways to go. Have to win CCL before being taken totally seriously. Get a name into the Fifa Club World Cup and build from there.
Galaxy is not better than QPR, or Wigan. they would go down equally with Reading. With Beckham they would perhaps escape the axe by a point or two. Not now. I think they would have a fighting chance to stay up in Serie A, Bundesliga 1 and Ligue 1. Actually they might finish mid table in Ligue 1. Though definitely not EPL or the Primera division.

If I were to rank the top 20 top flights from around the world It'd go like this. Considering the total quality of every team, not just the top teams in every league.

1. EPL
2. Primera Division (Spain)
3. Serie A (Italy)
4. Bundesliga (Germany)
5. Primeira Liga (Portugal)
6. Russian Premier League
7. Ligue 1 (France)
8. Eredivisie (Netherlands)
9. Campeonato Brasileiro
10. Süper Lig (Turkey)
11. Belgian League
12. Argentinian league
13. Primera Div Mex
14. MLS
15. Scottish Premier League
16. K-League (South Korea)
17. Greek League
18. Axpo SL (Switzerland)
19. South African League
20. Japanese league

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03-11-2013, 07:01 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
It's amazing how MLS is thought of more highly over in Europe compared to how it is thought of in its own country.

15 years ago, MLS was garbage. 7 years ago, it was slightly better but still bad. 4 years ago it was slightly better.

Now it's pretty solid.. Which is why you see so many of the European teams struggle when they play MLS teams during the summer and also going after so many different MLS players.


It's not the EPL yet but no league in the world is... It's certainly better than the SPL (coming from a Celtic supporter) and several of the other leagues over there. Keeps getting shown clearly by supposed EPL stars coming over here and performing like **** regardless of age.
I understand where you're coming from and I agree that the MLS has improved- and I'm sure European perception of the league has improved as well especially after the friendlies last summer. Just as a matter of personal preference though: I'd rather watch and follow the best players in the world as they compete in the best league in the world. I definitely want to make an effort watch more NY Red Bulls games as well though.

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03-11-2013, 08:20 PM
  #311
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I've been watching every sport pretty much sine I was 11 years old. And that includes Soccer. So I've been watching it for 20 years. Though I dropped out of soccer for most of the 2000s I picked it up really quickly. When I was a kid the Italian league was leaps and bounds the best. The Spanish League was just Real and Barcelona. Maybe Valencia was third. Today its not that different except more teams are a little better in international competition. The Italian league gave way to the EPL which 20 years ago was imo nowhere as good, not even in the same conversation as even the Bundesliga. Now all of a sudden the level of play in the EPL is the best in the world. I notice all the time not when I see Manchester United take on teams like Chelsea but when I see the chumps of the league like Wigan or Bolton going against each other. And then you really see this high level intensity that I do not see out of these teams when they play the big guns. That's when I'm like "wow look at that Townsend guy, why isn't he the central attacking midfielder for England and they still carry stiffs like Gerard?" and things like that. What I'm saying is please do not put any MLS team in the same league as the worst team in the second division of England because the speed, the conditioning, the coaching is LIGHT YEARS ahead. I mean you look at the Red Bulls and the fact they can't even have a professional defender of any kind is beyond sad. And you put Seattle or L.A. against Tottenham Spurs and they get crushed let alone Manchester United. Although to be fair I think Manchester United is not a top club when you measure them against the top Spanish teams who are the 2 best clubs in the world right now. And MU is not even as good as Borussia Dortmund. But anyway I rest my case.

Having said that I'm still waiting for the Cosmos to return.

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03-11-2013, 08:55 PM
  #312
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If you guys want to watch your competitive games on saturday morning at 8 AM thats your own imperative. I don't watch MLS because it is the best league in the world, I do so because its my local NY soccer team. Its also not buried in the same crazy worship culture of the players that it is in Europe.

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03-11-2013, 09:12 PM
  #313
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If you guys want to watch your competitive games on saturday morning at 8 AM thats your own imperative. I don't watch MLS because it is the best league in the world, I do so because its my local NY soccer team. Its also not buried in the same crazy worship culture of the players that it is in Europe.
im a celtic fan that is really indifferent to the red bulls. i prefer them to beat anyone else in mls but i just am so meh to them. when u think about it they are a really unlikeable team with how often the squad is turned over, the fact they are owned by an austrian energy drink, often sign marquee players that play like **** for them, and routinely lose there good young players like howard, bradley, altidore, agudelo over the years before they accomplish much for the team.

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03-11-2013, 09:16 PM
  #314
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Galaxy is not better than QPR, or Wigan. they would go down equally with Reading. With Beckham they would perhaps escape the axe by a point or two. Not now. I think they would have a fighting chance to stay up in Serie A, Bundesliga 1 and Ligue 1. Actually they might finish mid table in Ligue 1. Though definitely not EPL or the Primera division.

If I were to rank the top 20 top flights from around the world It'd go like this. Considering the total quality of every team, not just the top teams in every league.

1. EPL
2. Primera Division (Spain)
3. Serie A (Italy)
4. Bundesliga (Germany)
5. Primeira Liga (Portugal)
6. Russian Premier League
7. Ligue 1 (France)
8. Eredivisie (Netherlands)
9. Campeonato Brasileiro
10. Süper Lig (Turkey)
11. Belgian League
12. Argentinian league
13. Primera Div Mex
14. MLS
15. Scottish Premier League
16. K-League (South Korea)
17. Greek League
18. Axpo SL (Switzerland)
19. South African League
20. Japanese league

Ligue 1 is higher than the Portuguese and the Russian league. Also the Brazilian league is higher than the Dutch, that league (Brazilian) has been flooded with cash the past few years and has way better players (Neymar, Ronaldinho) just to name a few....

If MLS increases the salary cap by quite a bit I can see them cracking the top 10 easily. No reason it can't be on par with the Russian league.

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03-11-2013, 09:22 PM
  #315
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In a few years you'll have the Cosmos and City FC to choose from, as well.

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03-12-2013, 01:48 AM
  #316
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Ligue 1 is higher than the Portuguese and the Russian league. Also the Brazilian league is higher than the Dutch, that league (Brazilian) has been flooded with cash the past few years and has way better players (Neymar, Ronaldinho) just to name a few....

If MLS increases the salary cap by quite a bit I can see them cracking the top 10 easily. No reason it can't be on par with the Russian league.
Youre mad, PSG doesnt raise Ligue 1 over portugal and the now rich Russian league. Brazil has gotten better but is still in the infancy of its maturation.

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03-12-2013, 02:09 AM
  #317
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In a few years you'll have the Cosmos and City FC to choose from, as well.
What?!

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03-12-2013, 05:15 AM
  #318
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Been to a few MLS games. Just attended the Man U-Chelsea FA Cup match on Sunday. There is no comparison. MLS clubs would be in the Championship at best over here, and some would end up in League 1. As of today, I would rather watch an EPL game on TV than an MLS game live, and I have seen the LA Galaxy several times.

As a former Cosmos devotee, I am happy the club is back in the NASL and hope that they will end up in MLS at some point. Being from NJ, I just have not been able to warm up to the Metrostars or Red Bulls.

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03-12-2013, 05:52 AM
  #319
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Galaxy is not better than QPR, or Wigan. they would go down equally with Reading. With Beckham they would perhaps escape the axe by a point or two. Not now. I think they would have a fighting chance to stay up in Serie A, Bundesliga 1 and Ligue 1. Actually they might finish mid table in Ligue 1. Though definitely not EPL or the Primera division.

If I were to rank the top 20 top flights from around the world It'd go like this. Considering the total quality of every team, not just the top teams in every league.

1. EPL
2. Primera Division (Spain)
3. Serie A (Italy)
4. Bundesliga (Germany)
5. Primeira Liga (Portugal)
6. Russian Premier League
7. Ligue 1 (France)
8. Eredivisie (Netherlands)
9. Campeonato Brasileiro
10. Süper Lig (Turkey)
11. Belgian League
12. Argentinian league
13. Primera Div Mex
14. MLS
15. Scottish Premier League
16. K-League (South Korea)
17. Greek League
18. Axpo SL (Switzerland)
19. South African League
20. Japanese league
Decent list, but I'd have Germany second and you forgot the Ukrainian Premyer League, IMO a better league than Eredivisie. Also, why is Belgium so high? Anderlecht and Club Brügge are okay, but then you have a huge drop off. MLS too high to, IMO.

Also, Swiss league is weaseling it's way up the ladder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgO-pQBo68w
Sorry for the music, not my vid.


Last edited by SoftEuro4thLiner: 03-12-2013 at 06:05 AM.
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Old
03-12-2013, 06:56 AM
  #320
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What?!
If it's what I think they're saying; Cosmos are coming back to NASL this fall, and there are talks about getting a 2nd MLS team in New York. In the Queens area I believe, and MLS has registered a web domain of "cityfc.com."

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03-12-2013, 08:14 AM
  #321
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I'm sorry, but the Argentinean league at 12th? Do you understand how many amazing players that league/system has produced in the last 10 years? I mean I know it's not as fancy to watch on tv, but the skill level is insane. There is no way, and I mean NO WAY they are at the very least unequal to the Brazilian league, which I would also rate far higher than he has it.

Dale River Carajoooooooo

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03-12-2013, 11:17 AM
  #322
ChipAyten
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Decent list, but I'd have Germany second and you forgot the Ukrainian Premyer League, IMO a better league than Eredivisie. Also, why is Belgium so high? Anderlecht and Club Brügge are okay, but then you have a huge drop off. MLS too high to, IMO.

Also, Swiss league is weaseling it's way up the ladder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgO-pQBo68w
Sorry for the music, not my vid.
I knew I was forgetting someone!

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03-12-2013, 11:29 AM
  #323
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Barca and Milan in a HUGE game today.

Who wins? Milan has a 2-goal lead coming in today.

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03-12-2013, 11:29 AM
  #324
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What?!
MLS is proposing an expansion site in, I think it is Queens? That is expected to be bought by Manchester City owners and named City FC. This is, of course still speculation at this point.

The Cosmos, returning to the NASL, have a park on long island that they want to build, if my memory is correct. If MLS ever goes to a promotion/relegation system with 2nd tier NASL and 3rd tier USL, the Cosmos could push for promotion into MLS.

So there could feasibly be three pro soccer NY area teams of reputation. NY FC died recently. For my part, I'm sticking with RBNY.

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03-12-2013, 11:47 AM
  #325
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MLS is proposing an expansion site in, I think it is Queens? That is expected to be bought by Manchester City owners and named City FC. This is, of course still speculation at this point.

The Cosmos, returning to the NASL, have a park on long island that they want to build, if my memory is correct. If MLS ever goes to a promotion/relegation system with 2nd tier NASL and 3rd tier USL, the Cosmos could push for promotion into MLS.

So there could feasibly be three pro soccer NY area teams of reputation. NY FC died recently. For my part, I'm sticking with RBNY.
Don't think they ever go 3 NY area teams. There was mention of the Man City thing but that's not happening.

Cosmos will be the 2nd team in a couple of years and they'll put it in Queens. Initially I was against it, but I've come around to the idea that it can only help the Red Bulls and local soccer in this area.

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