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Old
03-12-2013, 12:49 PM
  #151
vanuck
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
Looking at this summer's defense UFA pool, I'd be surprised if they didn't find Ballard a new team. Pretty bad market.

Luckily the Canucks have tons of depth and young players coming on defense. Looks like Tanev can already handle top 4 minutes and should be even better next season. If a guy like Andersson keeps improving and takes another step forward after his first NA year, he could compete for a 6/7 spot. Then there's the unknowns like Price and Tommernes who have potential too. And of course Corrado might be ready to play in the NHL next year, he was already impressive last year with the Wolves.

Ballard and Alberts are both probably gone. I think the Canucks need a new "Alberts", a veteran depth guy to step in when needed, but otherwise the blue line looks fine.
This is why Ballard could still have value. A top 4 D-man on a cost-controlled contract for the next 2 years should be able to garner a decent return in this type of market.

Of course, it doesn't help though when they're scratching him every other game.

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:50 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Wheatley View Post
Have you watched any Calgary games this year?
Yeah, I have. Doesn't seem like you have though. We're talking about a guy here that has 14 ES points, tied for 40th in the league. He has scored 6 goals in his last 8 games and put up 10 points in his last 10. Is he as good as he used to be? No, but he still has an exceptional shot and can cycle the puck really well.

In terms of the impact he can have in 1 year, this would be a better acquisition than Jeff Carter.

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:52 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Good point. Personally I consider Jensen, Schroeder, Gaunce, Lack and Corrado to be our top prospects. Connauton could potentially be expendable but what kind of value does he have left if he had much at all? Outside of that, I suppose we could shop guys like Rodin, Grenier, Mallet, Rai, Price, McNally, etc. but these aren't even B level prospects. Our cupboards are so bare that I don't see much trade value there amongst the players we can afford to move.
I think Schroeder is a long way from untouchable. I'd wager the only true "top prospects" we have under that definition are Jensen and Gaunce at this point. We can definitely afford to move a defensive prospect because we have a lot them.

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:52 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Yeah, I have. Doesn't seem like you have though. We're talking about a guy here that has 14 ES points, tied for 40th in the league. He has scored 6 goals in his last 8 games and put up 10 points in his last 10. Is he as good as he used to be? No. But in terms of the impact he can have in 1 year, this would be a better acquisition than Jeff Carter.
Not to mention he will be very motivated to win a Cup as this could be his last legitimate chance as a contributing member.

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:54 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
I think Schroeder is a long way from untouchable. I'd wager the only true "top prospects" we have under that definition are Jensen and Gaunce at this point. We can definitely afford to move a defensive prospect because we have a lot them.
I don't think Corrado is moved. He's improving at a rapid rate and the value you get for him right now is likely to be a lot lower due to his draft position than what his value will be in 2 years when he shows his actual potential.

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03-12-2013, 12:55 PM
  #156
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I really think people are under valuing Schroeder. He's a very good skilled, defensively responsible center. I do think we have hampered his development (so maybe him getting the hell out of our organization would save his career), but I do think he has the potential to be a very good offensive oriented 3C, or a decent 2C in the future.

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:57 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't think Corrado is moved. He's improving at a rapid rate and the value you get for him right now is likely to be a lot lower due to his draft position than what his value will be in 2 years when he shows his actual potential.
I don't think it is necessarily very likely, but it would really depend on the return. He's obviously a lot more visible around the league after his last couple of junior years and the showing at Team Canada camp. It would really depend on what was coming the other way for me.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:02 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Yeah, I have. Doesn't seem like you have though. We're talking about a guy here that has 14 ES points, tied for 40th in the league. He has scored 6 goals in his last 8 games and put up 10 points in his last 10. Is he as good as he used to be? No, but he still has an exceptional shot and can cycle the puck really well.

In terms of the impact he can have in 1 year, this would be a better acquisition than Jeff Carter.
How many years has it been since Iginla's played in the playoffs? Four? You can fault his team all you want, but Iginla consistently disappears down the stretch, when his team needs him the most.

Basically, when the going gets tough, Iginla is nowhere to be found. I don't want him anywhere near this team, especially for the price we would have to pay for him.

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03-12-2013, 01:06 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Wheatley View Post
How many years has it been since Iginla's played in the playoffs? Four? You can fault his team all you want, but Iginla consistently disappears down the stretch, when his team needs him the most.

Basically, when the going gets tough, Iginla is nowhere to be found. I don't want him anywhere near this team, especially for the price we would have to pay for him.
For a guy that disappears when the going gets tough, it's amazing that he has 28 goals in 54 career playoff games.

From March to end of season, for the past 3 seasons he has put up:

11-12: 9 goals, 10 assists in 19 games
10-11: 18 goals, 10 assists in 18 games
09-10: 5 goals, 7 assists in 20 games (a lot of guys that were in the Olympics sucked down the stretch that year, including Luongo)

Sure disappears. That 10-11 last 18 games was the best in the league, I believe.


Last edited by Tiranis: 03-12-2013 at 01:12 PM.
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Old
03-12-2013, 01:10 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatley View Post
How many years has it been since Iginla's played in the playoffs? Four? You can fault his team all you want, but Iginla consistently disappears down the stretch, when his team needs him the most.

Basically, when the going gets tough, Iginla is nowhere to be found. I don't want him anywhere near this team, especially for the price we would have to pay for him.
You couldn't be more wrong.

Last year down the stretch Iginla had 19 points in 19 games (March and April).

The year before he had 28 points in 18 games (including 18 goals).

I don't know where you get that he disappears down the stretch consistently because his production does not support that claim.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:13 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
You couldn't be more wrong.

Last year down the stretch Iginla had 19 points in 19 games (March and April).

The year before he had 28 points in 18 games (including 18 goals).

I don't know where you get that he disappears down the stretch consistently because his production does not support that claim.
If anything, Iginla starts out slow and ends strong.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:14 PM
  #162
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Iginla's problem is he's lazy about defending. He's consistently outshot and out scored when on the ice and often bails on the defensive zone to cherry pick. Though I guess he'd fit right in with AV's system of no puck support for the defense.

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03-12-2013, 01:17 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Iginla's problem is he's lazy about defending. He's consistently outshot and out scored when on the ice and often bails on the defensive zone to cherry pick. Though I guess he'd fit right in with AV's system of no puck support for the defense.
That's only a problem if you're expected to be the top player. I'm sure with two other responsible players on his line that would be completely irrelevant.

Also your claim that it happens 'consistently' doesn't hold up. Last year and this year is the first time it has happened and when you look at the Flames roster, it's pretty apparent why. Prior to that he used to line-up against other top lines with no benefit of higher offensive zone starts and break even or come out ahead.

That's ignoring that he would likely be an upgrade on Kesler on the PP and would allow us to create a decent 2nd unit.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:18 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Iginla's problem is he's lazy about defending. He's consistently outshot and out scored when on the ice and often bails on the defensive zone to cherry pick. Though I guess he'd fit right in with AV's system of no puck support for the defense.
We need guys who can put the puck in the net. We aren't going to be able to acquire a Pavel Datsyuk, and since we have way too many tweeners as it is we need someone with high end offensive skill. That's Iginla. He has great size, isn't afraid to drop the gloves when needed, and would be by far our best pure goal scorer.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:23 PM
  #165
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For what it's worth if Van had Iginla last season...they would have beat the Kings.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:26 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I would not pay Alberts that. I was thinking more about replacing Ballard and Alberts with O'Byrne (I think AV wouldn't oppose).

But really, at this point we're paying 6.3m for defensman 6/7/8. It now looks like we can use the #8 spot as an ELC non-waiver eligible prospect in the farm.

I don't think we'll need a full time #8 on the roster in this case. I have no problem treating O'Byrne as what I figure he is - a full time #6.
Would we need an Alberts if we finally have d depth on the farm? If Price, Corrado and Andersson continue their trajectory next year, couldn't we just call up any of those guys when an injury happens?

Ideally, isn't that what Gillis is aiming for? A stocked farm so you don't need to tie up salary with 8 d-men. It's just that currently, there is no one on the farm that can be relied upon for a call up.

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03-12-2013, 01:26 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
We need guys who can put the puck in the net. We aren't going to be able to acquire a Pavel Datsyuk, and since we have way too many tweeners as it is we need someone with high end offensive skill. That's Iginla. He has great size, isn't afraid to drop the gloves when needed, and would be by far our best pure goal scorer.
He also has actual leadership abilities which would help a lot, and the ability to summon The Heart of the Lion God when enraged, which he would often be, were he a Canuck.

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03-12-2013, 01:27 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
This is why Ballard could still have value. A top 4 D-man on a cost-controlled contract for the next 2 years should be able to garner a decent return in this type of market.

Of course, it doesn't help though when they're scratching him every other game.
YOu have over valued Ballard. He wasnt brought in here to be a defensive specialist which I still dont think he is. He was point producing , power play specialist in FLA. His offensive ability has eroded in Vancouver and he D is average. He does not play the tough minutes like Hamhuis or Bieksa. Getting rid of Ballrd is not going to be easy at all.

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03-12-2013, 01:34 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
For a guy that disappears when the going gets tough, it's amazing that he has 28 goals in 54 career playoff games.

From March to end of season, for the past 3 seasons he has put up:

11-12: 9 goals, 10 assists in 19 games
10-11: 18 goals, 10 assists in 18 games
09-10: 5 goals, 7 assists in 20 games (a lot of guys that were in the Olympics sucked down the stretch that year, including Luongo)

Sure disappears. That 10-11 last 18 games was the best in the league, I believe.
2010/11 he had a great year statistically, I'll give him credit for that.

Last year he had 1 goal in his last 9 games. Not exactly putting your team on your shoulders and carrying them into the playoffs.

2009/10 he only had one assist in his last 9 games, and ZERO goals. I guess that screams clutch to you?

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03-12-2013, 01:35 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
I figure he'll be making at least $4m, over $5m would be an overpayment in my books but maybe that's what it takes.

But my point is that if that's trouble for the Oilers it's a frickin catastrophe for the Canucks from a cap standpoint.

If I'm the Oilers and it takes $5.5m to re-sign Sam Gagner, I start talking to GMs around the league who need a second line center and can part with a defenseman or a forward from a very different mould.

Edit: I don't know. Maybe Sam wants nothing more than to play in the same organization dad works for, and would take less to play here. I'd certainly consider moving players to make a fit for him at $4m.
I think the difference is Edmonton might have cap troubles and a bad team. Canucks cap situation is actually fine once they move Luongo/Ballard (however that ends up happening).

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03-12-2013, 01:36 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
He also has actual leadership abilities which would help a lot, and the ability to summon The Heart of the Lion God when enraged, which he would often be, were he a Canuck.
I think that Lion God left Iginla back when he was still in his 20s

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03-12-2013, 01:36 PM
  #172
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That's only a problem if you're expected to be the top player. I'm sure with two other responsible players on his line that would be completely irrelevant.

Also your claim that it happens 'consistently' doesn't hold up. Last year and this year is the first time it has happened and when you look at the Flames roster, it's pretty apparent why. Prior to that he used to line-up against other top lines with no benefit of higher offensive zone starts and break even or come out ahead.
Those years also coincided with him hitting his mid 30s. I think it's pretty clear from watching him that he's slowed down a fair bit. He's not nearly as physical as he used to be and is now more of a sniper.

And I'm also not that impressed with his leadership. He seems like he's more interested in putting up points with his friends than actually contributing to a winning hockey team. Maybe going to a new team that'd be different, but each of the last 5 Flames coaches have complained that the team is very tough to coach and at times unwilling to follow a game plan. Given that Iginla is really the only skater that played on those teams and he's the captain, I'm seeing a pattern. The stories of the team basically mutinying against Playfair under Iginla's watch also don't speak well of his leadership.

I'd definitely take him on the Canucks for the right price, but I think the mythos around him should be ignored and he should be recognized as what he is now and that's a 35 year old 1-way player who's good for 65-70 points a year with 1st line duties and #1 PP time. He could be deadly in the right situation (if he goes to Pittsburgh or something), but I don't see him as someone who'd be a huge difference maker on a struggling Canucks team.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:39 PM
  #173
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CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Stephen Weiss ($3.750m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Mason Raymond ($2.275m) / Mark Letestu ($1.500m) / Chris Higgins ($1.900m)
Dale Weise ($0.950m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.250m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Chris Tanev ($1.501m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Ryan O'Byrne ($1.750m)
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
OTHER
Buyout: David Booth ($0.000m)
Buyout: Keith Ballard ($0.000m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.062% of upper limit)
Cory Schneider ($0.040mó1.0%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,868,833; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,431,167


If we can move Ballard or Booth for picks/prospects, buy them out. Move Schneider for picks/prospects/young players

Weiss can slot into center, moving Kesler out to the wing, Hes more consistent than Booth and will probably cost less considering hes coming off a injury and the cap is going down. Letestu is another solid 2 way player, that we could sign short term. O'Byrne comes back to his home province, hes a big right handed shutdown defense man.

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03-12-2013, 01:44 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Iginla's problem is he's lazy about defending. He's consistently outshot and out scored when on the ice and often bails on the defensive zone to cherry pick. Though I guess he'd fit right in with AV's system of no puck support for the defense.
I disagree with this. He's not "lazy" -- he's old. But he's still an elite offensive player in the league. He just happens to never play on a line with a capable centre to compensate for his age/diminishing skillset. Put Iginla with a healthy two-way center like Kesler, or possession monsters like Crosby/The Sedins, and it eliminates his deficiencies.

To me, properly managing/coaching an NHL team should be about minimizing deficiencies as much as maximizing skillsets. Calgary just doesn't have a dynamic enough roster to do that. My 2 cents, anyway.

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03-12-2013, 01:50 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Wheatley View Post
Last year he had 1 goal in his last 9 games. Not exactly putting your team on your shoulders and carrying them into the playoffs.
Why are the last 9 games more important than the 10 before? He scored 9 goals in those 10 games. What an arbitrary cut-off.

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