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Trade Rumor Thread Part VI: Gaborik for Peanuts

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:47 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
ROR needed an offer sheet to get 2 years/$10M. The Avs matched. Offer sheets are exercises in futility. The team offering the sheet doesn't get the player and they drive up the price on every team to re-sign their own players. The Flames chairman Murray Edwards was a hawk during the lockout. The other teams are pissed at Edwards for the offer sheet. He's a hypocrite. Stepan will need an offer sheet to get $5M. The Rangers will match any sheet and the other teams know it. Stepan will sign a 2 year bridge contract. Sather doesn't pay a player unless he has to. Buffalo gave Myers a ridiculous contract when they didn't need to do it. Stupid. When Stepan is arb eligible,he will have the hammer. Sather has the hammer now. McDonagh and Hagelin will have the hammer in July. The Rangers weren't paying ROR the type of money he wanted in a 2nd contract not being arb eligible before getting the sheet. Staal was the only player who didn't get a bridge contract. Lundqvist got a 1 year deal before getting his current deal. 2 years of entry level. 1 year $4.25M. Then the current deal. Sather didn't have the space in a $50.3M cap in 07-08 to give Henrik nearly $7M per. $56.7M cap for 08-09. First year of the 6 years.
So, do you agree or disagree that the 3 players will collectively cost the Rangers 7.5/per or not? All I'm saying is THAT number, 2.5 per per player x3, is not going to happen.

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03-12-2013, 12:50 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
But Offer-sheets ARE for UFA type massive money. It's the only way to induce a player to sign the actual contract.

You are giving up UFA money to an RFA, no other reason for the player to sign the contract.

AND you run the risk of retalitory poaching. Not a smart way to conduct business.

If you are willing to trade the 1st, 2nd and 3rd (ROR Compensation) then make the offer to trade for that player.

Doubt you will see offer-sheets as often as you think.
Less massive. I thought the comp was 1st & 3rd (which, to me, isn't all that risky given the success rate of later first rounders vs. a proven commodity)? It might alienate certain GM's to other clubs, but it's certainly something that I, if I were a GM, would try to take advantage of.

I certainly don't think a club will "poach" the Flames for revenge, that would be stupid. If they send out an offer sheet to try to improve their club, it's within the rules.

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03-12-2013, 12:54 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
No they are not.

Stepan in on pace for 55 points.
Hagelin is on pace for 52 points (rounded up)

And, just because one team tried to poach a player doesn't mean that it will happen again.

How often are these Offer-sheets handed out?

More importantly, how often are they actually signed by the player?

and for the record, no precedent was set with the ROR signing. Guys who sign offer-sheets are basically given UFA type money to induce them to signing the actual off-sheet and to try to scare the team owning the players right from matching.

It's why Neil Smith front loaded Sakic's contract with a 14 million 1st season.
Generally agree, but I could easily see a $5m = three year offer sheet for Stepan.
Sather generally plays hardball with RFAs and eventually gets them to capitualte. I think $2.5 for Stepan is an absolute pipe dream though.

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03-12-2013, 01:11 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Less massive. I thought the comp was 1st & 3rd (which, to me, isn't all that risky given the success rate of later first rounders vs. a proven commodity)? It might alienate certain GM's to other clubs, but it's certainly something that I, if I were a GM, would try to take advantage of.

I certainly don't think a club will "poach" the Flames for revenge, that would be stupid. If they send out an offer sheet to try to improve their club, it's within the rules.
I think when the time arrives, Colorado may do just that.

Not sure if you remember the Vancouver/St. Louis pissing match.

It's happened before, I can easily see it happeneing again, especially if what Rangerboy stated was true about the Flames Chairman being one of the hard liners.

One significant aspect the owners have in terms of keeping salaries in check is the ability to control salries. That gets thrown out of whack when you have rogue GM's going all willy nilly with offer-sheets.

It's a tool that teams have to improve their teams. No doubt. It's a tool that has side effects as well.

still do not believe we are going to see these all that often.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:15 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
So, do you agree or disagree that the 3 players will collectively cost the Rangers 7.5/per or not? All I'm saying is THAT number, 2.5 per per player x3, is not going to happen.
I think the smart money is that McD will get a long term contract. Likely 4 years. He has been consistently good since he joined the team and he's only getting better. He's also arbitration eligible, so he'll have more leverage.

Staal got just under 4 mil per on a 5 year deal. I could see McD getting 4 - 4.5 per.

Stepan will almost certainly get a 2 year bridge contract as he isn't arbitration eligible. I think 2.5 mil per year is right around what he'll get.

Hagelin is the wild card. He's been great for us, but between the lockout and the time he played in the AHL last year, the sample size for him is small compared to the other 2. Hagelin has played 105 career games. McD has played 170 and Stepan has played 213. That just screams bridge contract. But he is also arbitration eligible.

I would guess that Hagelin will end up with a contract similar to Stepan. I don't see Sather giving him a long term deal. I'd bet that he will file for arbitration. Hopefully Sather can make a deal with him before the hearing.

In all, I'd guess 9 to 10 mil for the 3 of them.

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03-12-2013, 01:17 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
Generally agree, but I could easily see a $5m = three year offer sheet for Stepan.
Sather generally plays hardball with RFAs and eventually gets them to capitualte. I think $2.5 for Stepan is an absolute pipe dream though.
Those are the EXACT words used to describe the MDZ and Subban situations.

both signed for under 3 per (cap hit)

Time will tell.

Callahan's bridge deal saw him get 2.3 per.
Dubi got 1.85 per.
Anisimov 1.85 per

Unless he gets an offer-sheet, 2.75 per for two years. tops

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03-12-2013, 01:38 PM
  #382
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Based on a brief interaction with a Canes fan on the trade board, I'd like the following deals:

Jamie McBain, Drayson Bowman and a Mid-round pick for Brian Boyle and Steve Eminger
I'm not a Boyle hater by any means. This deal is more about acquiring a young, RH PMD who can grow with the team and is cap-manageable for another season. McBain was extremely promising not too long ago but his development has stalled a bit. He benefits from a mobile stay-at-home D partner (read: Marc Staal) and just has more upside than Boyle does at this point in their careers. The downside is we take a hit from what Boyle brings to the table in face-offs and defensive play, plus we lose a guy who is well liked by his teammates.

Ryan Jones for Drayson Bowman and Canes' mid-rounder
Jones is a perfect Tortorella player, but more importantly, he's a very good energy guy that can play either wing. UFA at the end of the season, but he's someone I would try and re-sign before he hit he market. We're also essentially paying with found money.

When healthy:
Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Pyatt - Richards - Gaborik
Jones - Miller - Callahan
Powe - Halpern - Haley
Asham

McD - Danny G
Staal - McB
MDZ - Stralman
Hamrlik

That 3rd line would be a nightmare for defenders when they get in on the forecheck. Speed to burn and enough offensive upside to be dangerous with every shift.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:54 PM
  #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Based on a brief interaction with a Canes fan on the trade board, I'd like the following deals:

Jamie McBain, Drayson Bowman and a Mid-round pick for Brian Boyle and Steve Eminger
I'm not a Boyle hater by any means. This deal is more about acquiring a young, RH PMD who can grow with the team and is cap-manageable for another season. McBain was extremely promising not too long ago but his development has stalled a bit. He benefits from a mobile stay-at-home D partner (read: Marc Staal) and just has more upside than Boyle does at this point in their careers. The downside is we take a hit from what Boyle brings to the table in face-offs and defensive play, plus we lose a guy who is well liked by his teammates.

Ryan Jones for Drayson Bowman and Canes' mid-rounder
Jones is a perfect Tortorella player, but more importantly, he's a very good energy guy that can play either wing. UFA at the end of the season, but he's someone I would try and re-sign before he hit he market. We're also essentially paying with found money.

When healthy:
Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Pyatt - Richards - Gaborik
Jones - Miller - Callahan
Powe - Halpern - Haley
Asham

McD - Danny G
Staal - McB
MDZ - Stralman
Hamrlik

That 3rd line would be a nightmare for defenders when they get in on the forecheck. Speed to burn and enough offensive upside to be dangerous with every shift.
That looks beyond awesome to me.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:02 PM
  #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Based on a brief interaction with a Canes fan on the trade board, I'd like the following deals:

Jamie McBain, Drayson Bowman and a Mid-round pick for Brian Boyle and Steve Eminger
I'm not a Boyle hater by any means. This deal is more about acquiring a young, RH PMD who can grow with the team and is cap-manageable for another season. McBain was extremely promising not too long ago but his development has stalled a bit. He benefits from a mobile stay-at-home D partner (read: Marc Staal) and just has more upside than Boyle does at this point in their careers. The downside is we take a hit from what Boyle brings to the table in face-offs and defensive play, plus we lose a guy who is well liked by his teammates.

Ryan Jones for Drayson Bowman and Canes' mid-rounder
Jones is a perfect Tortorella player, but more importantly, he's a very good energy guy that can play either wing. UFA at the end of the season, but he's someone I would try and re-sign before he hit he market. We're also essentially paying with found money.

When healthy:
Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Pyatt - Richards - Gaborik
Jones - Miller - Callahan
Powe - Halpern - Haley
Asham

McD - Danny G
Staal - McB
MDZ - Stralman
Hamrlik

That 3rd line would be a nightmare for defenders when they get in on the forecheck. Speed to burn and enough offensive upside to be dangerous with every shift.

Looks great to me.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:23 PM
  #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Based on a brief interaction with a Canes fan on the trade board, I'd like the following deals:

Jamie McBain, Drayson Bowman and a Mid-round pick for Brian Boyle and Steve Eminger
I'm not a Boyle hater by any means. This deal is more about acquiring a young, RH PMD who can grow with the team and is cap-manageable for another season. McBain was extremely promising not too long ago but his development has stalled a bit. He benefits from a mobile stay-at-home D partner (read: Marc Staal) and just has more upside than Boyle does at this point in their careers. The downside is we take a hit from what Boyle brings to the table in face-offs and defensive play, plus we lose a guy who is well liked by his teammates.

Ryan Jones for Drayson Bowman and Canes' mid-rounder
Jones is a perfect Tortorella player, but more importantly, he's a very good energy guy that can play either wing. UFA at the end of the season, but he's someone I would try and re-sign before he hit he market. We're also essentially paying with found money.

When healthy:
Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Pyatt - Richards - Gaborik
Jones - Miller - Callahan
Powe - Halpern - Haley
Asham

McD - Danny G
Staal - McB
MDZ - Stralman
Hamrlik

That 3rd line would be a nightmare for defenders when they get in on the forecheck. Speed to burn and enough offensive upside to be dangerous with every shift.
A lot of teams are looking for young RD, we may have to overpay a little. Even if we have to add a pick ourselves I'd still do it.

I think Sather/Torts may not want Miller to take over 3C as the season winds down and into the playoffs. Too much pressure for a kid.
I would get a 3C vet; Goc, Lombardi and ice a 3rd line of
Miller - Goc/Lombardi - Cally

The 3C job is his next season.
If they feel Miller is ready for the pressure of the playoffs then the line up you have is fine.

Nitpick: Jones is more of a 4th liner than 3rd liner but with Miller and Cally, he is not expected to score a lot and his defensive liabilities are minimized.

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03-12-2013, 02:31 PM
  #386
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I don't know why we're after a blueliner, so far as I am concerned we are more than set in that area.

Staal, McD, Hamrlik down the left, Girardi, MDZ, Stralman down the right. Gilroy and Eminger as scratches. I'd rather find a left wing, or a right wing who can play the left.

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03-12-2013, 02:32 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I don't know why we're after a blueliner, so far as I am concerned we are more than set in that area.

Staal, McD, Hamrlik down the left, Girardi, MDZ, Stralman down the right. Gilroy and Eminger as scratches. I'd rather find a left wing, or a right wing who can play the left.
MDZ is a lefty. He struggles on the RD.

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03-12-2013, 02:34 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
MDZ is a lefty. He struggles on the RD.
Maybe so, but he has played there all season long. Most of late last season, as well.

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03-12-2013, 02:45 PM
  #389
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John Carlson and Cam Fowler signed long term deals. No bridge. Non arbitration and arbitration years. 1 year of group III for Fowler. 2 years group III years for Carlson. $4M. McDonagh will get at least $4M. He will be worth every penny. Mac is 3 years away from being a group III. He will be 24 on June 23.

PK Subban is making $3.75M in his arbitration year. That will be his QO. DZ is making $2.9M in his arb year(13-14). DZ got more money for this season. $2.2M. $2M for Subban.

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03-12-2013, 02:51 PM
  #390
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I am just trying to figure out where everyone would be if the Rangers added Jarret Stoll?

I know he has term left, but I have this feeling....

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03-12-2013, 02:52 PM
  #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Based on a brief interaction with a Canes fan on the trade board, I'd like the following deals:

Jamie McBain, Drayson Bowman and a Mid-round pick for Brian Boyle and Steve Eminger
I'm not a Boyle hater by any means. This deal is more about acquiring a young, RH PMD who can grow with the team and is cap-manageable for another season. McBain was extremely promising not too long ago but his development has stalled a bit. He benefits from a mobile stay-at-home D partner (read: Marc Staal) and just has more upside than Boyle does at this point in their careers. The downside is we take a hit from what Boyle brings to the table in face-offs and defensive play, plus we lose a guy who is well liked by his teammates.

Ryan Jones for Drayson Bowman and Canes' mid-rounder
Jones is a perfect Tortorella player, but more importantly, he's a very good energy guy that can play either wing. UFA at the end of the season, but he's someone I would try and re-sign before he hit he market. We're also essentially paying with found money.

When healthy:
Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Pyatt - Richards - Gaborik
Jones - Miller - Callahan
Powe - Halpern - Haley
Asham

McD - Danny G
Staal - McB
MDZ - Stralman
Hamrlik

That 3rd line would be a nightmare for defenders when they get in on the forecheck. Speed to burn and enough offensive upside to be dangerous with every shift.
I would definitely do McBain for Boyle.

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03-12-2013, 02:56 PM
  #392
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uh, why the hell does Eklund have the Rangers as favorites to trade for Jagr? just saw it on his site... Are we going to field a team of all RWs? (Gaborik, Nash, Callahan, Jagr)..

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03-12-2013, 02:57 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
John Carlson and Cam Fowler signed long term deals. No bridge. Non arbitration and arbitration years. 1 year of group III for Fowler. 2 years group III years for Carlson. $4M. McDonagh will get at least $4M. He will be worth every penny. Mac is 3 years away from being a group III. He will be 24 on June 23.

PK Subban is making $3.75M in his arbitration year. That will be his QO. DZ is making $2.9M in his arb year(13-14). DZ got more money for this season. $2.2M. $2M for Subban.
Exactly. McD 4M, Hags 3.5M, Steps 3M (if we're lucky) + QO to Sauer = bye bye cap space. And we have to re-sign or replace Halpern, Hamrlik, Gilroy, & Emminger

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03-12-2013, 02:57 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
It's amazing how much better this team looks -boyle +jagr

That's a hell of a "3rd line".
only question is why the hell would Gaborik be on the 3rd line and Pyatt on the 2nd?

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03-12-2013, 02:58 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Exactly. McD 4M, Hags 3.5M, Steps 3M (if we're lucky) + QO to Sauer = bye bye cap space. And we have to re-sign or replace Halpern, Hamrlik, Gilroy, & Emminger
I don't think Hagelin gets close to a 3 million dollar raise. Not going to happen. He will get a similar bridge contract to Callahan. 2.2-2.5 million.

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03-12-2013, 02:58 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Exactly. McD 4M, Hags 3.5M, Steps 3M (if we're lucky) + QO to Sauer = bye bye cap space. And we have to re-sign or replace Halpern, Hamrlik, Gilroy, & Emminger
I dont see Hagelin getting 3.5

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03-12-2013, 02:58 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I am just trying to figure out where everyone would be if the Rangers added Jarret Stoll?

I know he has term left, but I have this feeling....
Glad you came around to my thinking

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03-12-2013, 03:00 PM
  #398
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Glad you came around to my thinking
It's not that I am totally for it. He is overpaid. Plain and simple. But I just get this feeling that he is who they are looking at.

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03-12-2013, 03:01 PM
  #399
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The Rangers picked up Hamrlik off of waivers for a reason. He makes too much money for him not to play. Schoenfeld has been assigned to get Hamrlik into shape. Don't the Capitals keep their extra players in shape? The Rangers scratches skate with Schoenfeld after practice. Conditioning drills. DZ has played on the right side with Staal and McDonagh on the left side.

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03-12-2013, 03:04 PM
  #400
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I could definitely find room in the lineup for Jagr.
not unless he can play LW lol.. Gaborik is already playing out of position.

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