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The Armchair GM Thread - XXXV

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:52 PM
  #176
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I disagree with this. He's not "lazy" -- he's old. But he's still an elite offensive player in the league. He just happens to never play on a line with a capable centre to compensate for his age/diminishing skillset. Put Iginla with a healthy two-way center like Kesler, or possession monsters like Crosby/The Sedins, and it eliminates his deficiencies.

To me, properly managing/coaching an NHL team should be about minimizing deficiencies as much as maximizing skillsets. Calgary just doesn't have a dynamic enough roster to do that. My 2 cents, anyway.
Maybe now it's because he's old, but even a few years ago he was consistently bailing the defensive zone early despite his coach's protests. I still think the jury's out on how well he'd fit in a structured system.

I think he'll be good for some team, but I don't want the Canucks paying that price for a soon to be 36 year old UFA who's pretty much lost his game breaking abilities.

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03-12-2013, 02:58 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Maybe now it's because he's old, but even a few years ago he was consistently bailing the defensive zone early despite his coach's protests. I still think the jury's out on how well he'd fit in a structured system.

I think he'll be good for some team, but I don't want the Canucks paying that price for a soon to be 36 year old UFA who's pretty much lost his game breaking abilities.
The guy takes about half a season to get going - seems like he'd fit right in with AV.

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03-12-2013, 03:02 PM
  #178
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YOu have over valued Ballard. He wasnt brought in here to be a defensive specialist which I still dont think he is. He was point producing , power play specialist in FLA. His offensive ability has eroded in Vancouver and he D is average. He does not play the tough minutes like Hamhuis or Bieksa. Getting rid of Ballrd is not going to be easy at all.
No one's saying that, but he can still be useful to a team looking for a puck-rusher. He's just being put in a role that isn't suited for him, and getting scratched even when he tries to conform to that role when it isn't his strength. Look at the link in the post I quoted - a lot of older D-men or merely depth guys. Whatever value you may think he has, it's still relative to the market that's going to be there on July 1st.

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03-12-2013, 03:05 PM
  #179
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we need a physical shutdown defenseman who will blockshots, we dont have one, closest we got is Hamhuis who really isnt more of a two way defenseman. Ryan O'Byrne comes to mind this offseason 6'5" 200+ Pounds from BC, good shot blocker, physical and could get him for about 1.75M-2.25M, Also RH Shot. buyout Ballard if cant dealt him for picks.

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03-12-2013, 03:06 PM
  #180
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Me want it to be trade deadline now!!!

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:09 PM
  #181
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we need a physical shutdown defenseman who will blockshots, we dont have one, closest we got is Hamhuis who really isnt more of a two way defenseman. Ryan O'Byrne comes to mind this offseason 6'5" 200+ Pounds from BC, good shot blocker, physical and could get him for about 1.75M-2.25M, Also RH Shot. buyout Ballard if cant dealt him for picks.
The team should be aiming to prevent shot attempts against, not blocking them. Kings have been bottom 5 in shot blocking for 3 years in a row now and it hasn't hurt them one bit.

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03-12-2013, 03:11 PM
  #182
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My concern is who he considers to be "top prospects".

We've already given away Grabner and Hodgson for an abysmal return and one the jury is still out on respectively. Who else is there? Jensen, Lack and Gaunce are probably are most enticing pieces, but I don't want to part with any of them.

Which would then beg the question, does anyone else in our system really have a great deal of value?

What? Grabner was waiver fodder and I still don't think he hangs on the roster of a good team. Hodgson was given up for a PWF prospect that if he hits his stride will be near impossible to get otherwise... Hardly "abysmal return". Two total different deals.

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03-12-2013, 03:11 PM
  #183
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Would we need an Alberts if we finally have d depth on the farm? If Price, Corrado and Andersson continue their trajectory next year, couldn't we just call up any of those guys when an injury happens?

Ideally, isn't that what Gillis is aiming for? A stocked farm so you don't need to tie up salary with 8 d-men. It's just that currently, there is no one on the farm that can be relied upon for a call up.
No we wouldn't.

In this instance I had O'Byrne replacing Ballard as the #6 as the Alberts (since AV likes Alberts type guys more). We'd probably keep one extra up with the club (like a Barker/Sulzer type....play once every 8-10 games kinda guy).

I made the same reference with the ELC's being available, thus we wouldn't need to carry 8 NHL guys, if we can call up a servicable player on an ELC for brief stints.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:12 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Maybe now it's because he's old, but even a few years ago he was consistently bailing the defensive zone early despite his coach's protests. I still think the jury's out on how well he'd fit in a structured system.

I think he'll be good for some team, but I don't want the Canucks paying that price for a soon to be 36 year old UFA who's pretty much lost his game breaking abilities.
I'm not saying I'd pay the price it would cost, either. I'm just taking issue with the notion that he's lost it. And, to be fair, even 3-4 seasons ago (when he was still past his prime), Iginla was a guy that drove up On-Ice SH% to 10/11%. Even if he was being outshot, I'm not sure he was losing the battle necessarily. But I take your point.

Still, he's generating enough shots that if his SH% is anywhere near his career average, he still could be a 40 goal player. Maybe not a "game breaker", but definitely an option for the right team.

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03-12-2013, 03:13 PM
  #185
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Shot blocking sometimes also tends to put a D out of position - I don't think that's a trait that Bowness or Super-Genius AV want.

AV - whatever his strengths as a coach - has proven that he's unwilling to adjust to the cards he's been dealt. He wants the players - whether their suited to playing that way or not - to play his style & his style only.

Why get a player that he won't like?

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:16 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
The team should be aiming to prevent shot attempts against, not blocking them. Kings have been bottom 5 in shot blocking for 3 years in a row now and it hasn't hurt them one bit.

Yup. This team should focus on continuing their method to improve ES possession. I get that the PP has cratered, and the obvious fix is a PP specialist, but I think it will right itself eventually. Keep pushing for ES possession players.

Goc fits that mould. Beyond him... who else does the job that also fits the team's needs?

Would anyone deal Raymond for Goc straight up?

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03-12-2013, 03:20 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Yup. This team should focus on continuing their method to improve ES possession. I get that the PP has cratered, and the obvious fix is a PP specialist, but I think it will right itself eventually. Keep pushing for ES possession players.

Goc fits that mould. Beyond him... who else does the job that also fits the team's needs?

Would anyone deal Raymond for Goc straight up?
No. We already have a bad offense, why would we trade another offensive forward for someone who's a defensive 3C? Goc is overrated.

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03-12-2013, 03:22 PM
  #188
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I've advocated for Goc, but I wouldn't do that deal.

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03-12-2013, 03:25 PM
  #189
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Raymond is a good possession player. It doesn't make sense to move him for another (inferior) one. Goc will probably be available for not all that much at the deadline if Florida continues their descent into oblivion.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:26 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
The team should be aiming to prevent shot attempts against, not blocking them. Kings have been bottom 5 in shot blocking for 3 years in a row now and it hasn't hurt them one bit.
I'm leading towards being tougher to play.

I'm not concerned with the blocked shots (usually signifies a mistake anyways), I wan't players that punish the opposition.

We still have TOO many passive players. That's why I don't have a disdain for Alberts like many do around here.

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03-12-2013, 03:26 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
No. We already have a bad offense, why would we trade another offensive forward for someone who's a defensive 3C? Goc is overrated.
From 2010-11 to present, including playoffs, Goc has a higher points per game

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03-12-2013, 03:26 PM
  #192
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What? Grabner was waiver fodder and I still don't think he hangs on the roster of a good team. Hodgson was given up for a PWF prospect that if he hits his stride will be near impossible to get otherwise... Hardly "abysmal return". Two total different deals.
Sure this is the Canucks' board, but let's try to have some sense of objectivity. A thirty goal scorer, who was a finalist for the rookie of the year, for Ballard. And a #1 center for a guy who is barely staying in the league (and would most likely be in the minors if GMMG does not want to save face). Two very young and developing star players for what exactly? Okay, those trades have worked out just fine for Vancouver. Really??

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:28 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
No. We already have a bad offense, why would we trade another offensive forward for someone who's a defensive 3C? Goc is overrated.
How can he be overrated when literally the only person that even 'rates' him is Drop the Sopel. He's a very good #3C, not quite as good as Manny but good.

Maybe if they trade us back some depth D that's better than Alberts and Barker, I would consider it.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:31 PM
  #194
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I wouldn't mind giving up our 1st if we are getting a legit 1st liner back, like Perry, Gaborik, Pominville, etc. HF really overvalues 1st round picks too much.

Here is a link people might find interesting.

Sometimes people forget that the goal of the team is to win, not to assemble the best prospect pool.

I would not at all be upset if Gillis moves our 1st for one of the aforementioned players, or if he moves someone like Connauton, Rodin, or even Schroeder in a package for a lesser rental(depending on the age/calibre)

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:40 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
How can he be overrated when literally the only person that even 'rates' him is Drop the Sopel. He's a very good #3C, not quite as good as Manny but good.

Maybe if they trade us back some depth D that's better than Alberts and Barker, I would consider it.
During his days in San Jose, he was a strong #3C, but I think he's lowered to an average #3C these days.

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03-12-2013, 03:41 PM
  #196
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During his days in San Jose, he was a strong #3C, but I think he's lowered to an average #3C these days.
Wasn't he on waivers at some point?

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:42 PM
  #197
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Wasn't he on waivers at some point?
At one point or another I think, not sure.

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03-12-2013, 03:43 PM
  #198
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Don't some of you think in hindsight that the money that is tied up in paying Ballard and Booths contracts would of been better spent on one elite winger like Gaborik, Kovalchuck, Parise ect when they were FA. You dont need a 4+ million D-man playing on your 3rd pairing on your backend. A 500K - 1Mil scrub can do that. I know a team needs depth to win a Stanley Cup but this team is lacking superstar power and you can't win a cup paying a bunch of cookie cutter guys 4 million a year.

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03-12-2013, 03:43 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
No. We already have a bad offense, why would we trade another offensive forward for someone who's a defensive 3C? Goc is overrated.
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
I've advocated for Goc, but I wouldn't do that deal.

Hmmm interesting. We know we're likely to lose Raymond at the end of the year, and Goc is still signed for one more year. So take the downgrade and get a fit for your roster right now... maybe have them throw in a pick to even out?

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03-12-2013, 03:43 PM
  #200
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Goc not the answer.

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