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Old
03-11-2013, 07:16 PM
  #101
Gimor
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Flyers just need to get out of the Boucher-Leighton cycle from NHL to AHL and vice versa.

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03-11-2013, 07:48 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
You should stop wasting your time. Trying to get DFF to admit that Holmgren might have made a clear mistake / overreacted is like trying to get BP1974 to admit that Bryz is playing poorly this year.

You'd have better luck trying to bend a spoon with your mind.
He just sees it through a different prism. He's not necessarily wrong. My basic argument is that although the Bob trade became a NECESSITY of sorts because of the way he was handled and the situation with Bryz, it wasn't necessarily the RIGHT move because it was REACTIONARY especially given the fact we have two retreads as backups and a starter that still shows signs of inconsistency despite his franchise goalie status. Waiting 4-5 years for Stolarz (although I suspect they will fast track him too) is not the best situation for the here and now but at least it helps. Again, trading Bob stemmed from painting themselves in a corner but again what made it worse is that Bryz is not looking like the goalie that was advertised in Phoenix...


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03-11-2013, 09:06 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Caps know Hotlby is the potential long term G of their future. They won't let him go.

I want nothing to do with Neuvie.

Grubauer has looked very, very good this season with Hershey.

Maybe we could trade for him.
Sorry for digging this up.

My friend saw Grubauer in Reading and said he couldn't believe he wasn't on the Bears. I saw him the night they played the Phantoms and was amazed. I'd love him but I don't think they'd be as quick to move him. Holtby is there to stay with that extension. I just think the Caps have better Goalies to acquire than Bob.

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03-11-2013, 09:29 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
With both goalies needing new deals, Mason is the more likely candidate to be moved. Bob has looked decent in games I've watched and I feel he's still a little ways off from being an NHL starter(thanks to the flyers lack of development for him). If we are offering Read I'd want Mason and one of those firsts(condition being the lowest one OR it becomes a second if we win the cup. Something along those lines). Read>>>>>Mason in value today. Mason could very well spark in a new enviroment (Philly might not be the best one lol) so it could be worth it. Read is a solid scoring winger something Columbus lacks (Atkinson, Calvert, kubalik all unproven) and mason could be a better back up/starter down the road that we need.
From a Jacket's fan perspective, I think Mason gets moved (if possible). I'm not fully up on the qualifying of RFAs, as to whether it is the player's cap hit or salary that gets applied, but Mason as a back-up, assuming Bob keeps this up, is not worth the amount of money it would take to qualify him.

Others have been ragging on the CBJ defense... the whole team plays defense, not just the defensemen. The problem has been scoring. A bad defensive team does not end up in the top 5-7 in PK%. Look a little more carefully at the final scores in the games. I wouldn't be surprised if the CBJ have had more 1 goal games than everyone else in the league.

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03-11-2013, 11:34 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
You should stop wasting your time. Trying to get DFF to admit that Holmgren might have made a clear mistake / overreacted is like trying to get BP1974 to admit that Bryz is playing poorly this year.

You'd have better luck trying to bend a spoon with your mind.
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
I'd like to see evidence of DFF admitting Holmgren made a mistake. He's quite possibly the biggest Holmgren lapdog I've ever seen in my life. He defends him to the death.

I honestly cannot recall a single instance where DFF criticized something Holmgren did.

Btw, I'm not saying DFF is a bad poster or anything, he's actually really good to discuss things with, provided that they aren't related to a past Holmgren blunder or potential blunder. He's good in the GDTs, he's good when you're discussing future moves, but when you're looking back and criticizing a Holmgren move, he defends the guy non-stop, regardless of logic. It's like BP1974, you can discuss anything with him and have a good logical discussion as long as it doesn't involve goaltending/Bryzgalov.
Haha. You obviously have not read many of my posts. Look back just two pages in this very thread and see where I talk about the mistakes Holmgren has made. I criticize Homer when he deserves it. When he doesn't deserve it, I don't criticize him. That is the difference between me and many posters on here. I am not hard-line one way or the other. Sometimes he messes up. Sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes Bryz is to blame for some goals. Sometimes he isn't. Criticism where criticism is due. Credit where credit is due. Trading Bob does not deserve Criticism. Signing Bryz to his contract is a different story.

EDIT: It probably does seem like I only defend him because he gets torn apart for most everything he does so a good amount of the time I am defending him instead of joining in.


Last edited by DrinkFightFlyers: 03-11-2013 at 11:40 PM.
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Old
03-12-2013, 12:00 AM
  #106
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Sergei Bobrovsky has been named the 1st Star of the Week by the NHL!

4-0-0 record with a 0.77 goals-against average, .972 save percentage and one shutout in four games last week, stopping 106-of-109 shots in 233 minutes of action...


Nice to see some team has a goalie that can stop a puck once in a while.

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:03 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by BleedOrange View Post
Sergei Bobrovsky has been named the 1st Star of the Week by the NHL!

4-0-0 record with a 0.77 goals-against average, .972 save percentage and one shutout in four games last week, stopping 106-of-109 shots in 233 minutes of action...


Nice to see some team has a goalie that can stop a puck once in a while.
Yes, let's act like Bob is the only guy who's gone on a hot streak. I've been on Bryz for the ****** play but come on. Bryz had a better hot streak last season. I'm not sold on Bob as a great goalie

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03-12-2013, 01:55 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Haha. You obviously have not read many of my posts. Look back just two pages in this very thread and see where I talk about the mistakes Holmgren has made. I criticize Homer when he deserves it. When he doesn't deserve it, I don't criticize him. That is the difference between me and many posters on here. I am not hard-line one way or the other. Sometimes he messes up. Sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes Bryz is to blame for some goals. Sometimes he isn't. Criticism where criticism is due. Credit where credit is due. Trading Bob does not deserve Criticism. Signing Bryz to his contract is a different story.

EDIT: It probably does seem like I only defend him because he gets torn apart for most everything he does so a good amount of the time I am defending him instead of joining in.
It's all good man, just seems like you defend Holmgren a lot. And I dunno how you defend him for the Bob trade. Was the value that we got terrible? No. But when you look at what we subsequently did (brought back Boosh/Leights), it was a terrible move. We have no reliable backup goalie for this year because we traded Bob.

If I offered you a legit backup goalie for 2 4th round picks, would you take it? Of course you would. And that's what makes the Bob trade so bad, we essentially traded Bob for 2 4th round picks.

Let me explain: had we kept Bob as the backup and let him get to RFA status this off-season without a contract, the only way we lose him is if he signs an offersheet with another team. Anything under 1.7M or so and he's well worth retaining, so the only way we let him go is if another team offersheets him @ 1.7M or above. If we decide to not match in that case, we get a 2nd round pick as compensation. We received a 2nd and 2 4th round picks in the trade for Bob, hence we basically sacrificed having a good backup / 2nd starter (or potential replacement starting goalie when Bryz struggles like he has) for this season for the low, low price of two 4th round picks. You'll excuse me if those 2 4th round picks don't excite me, given the extremely small likelihood those 4th round picks even play a single game for the Flyers, let alone make a significant impact.

I also think we differ in opinion because you look at the Bob trade as an isolated incident, while I look at it as a chain reaction from the Bryz deal. I can't just look at it in a vaccum because the Bryz contract is what forced the Bob trade. When you look at Holmgren's goaltending moves as a whole, he cannot be defended. He brought over a young rookie goalie from Russia and immediately installed him as the starting goalie on the Flyers; that alone would be considered mad by most GMs. But then it actually worked and he played well for the majority of the season, he looked like a real gem of a prospect. Then he hit a wall because he had played more games in a single season than he had ever done before in his career and he struggled a bit in the playoffs and before you knew it, Holmgren had relegated him to the bench in favor of Bryz and his 9 year contract. At that point the writing was on the wall and we later traded him away to Columbus.

The whole Bob/Bryz situation is basically a clinic for other GMs on how not to handle a goaltending prospect and in general how not to address the goaltending position on your team, from bringing Bob over and starting him right away to replacing him after he struggled to signing Bryz to that monstrosity of a contract to the ever comical return of Leighton and Boosh as the incompetent backups who get paid to not play / not spell Bryz, despite the fact that Bryz clearly needs it.

So yeah, I think he deserves a ton of criticism for his handling of Bobrovsky, from the start to the end. And I also think he deserves some criticism for not keeping Bob this year as a backup plan to Bryz. I know you're a Holmgren homer, but I'd hope you would be willing to admit that it should've been obvious to Homer that the compliance buyout was going to be part of the new CBA. Given that it was part of the last CBA and that GMs and owners are constantly talking to each other, it should've at the very least been in Homer's mind that the compliance buyout was a very realistic possibility. Instead of having an internal backup plan in case we amnesty Bryz, we now have only 2 options: 1) Stick w/ the abysmal Bryzgalov or 2) amnesty him and go w/ a past-prime goalie or a short-term deal or give another big contract to a guy like Backstrom. A better GM would've had Bobrovsky available as the much more attractive option #3.

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03-12-2013, 02:43 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
It's all good man, just seems like you defend Holmgren a lot. And I dunno how you defend him for the Bob trade. Was the value that we got terrible? No. But when you look at what we subsequently did (brought back Boosh/Leights), it was a terrible move. We have no reliable backup goalie for this year because we traded Bob.

If I offered you a legit backup goalie for 2 4th round picks, would you take it? Of course you would. And that's what makes the Bob trade so bad, we essentially traded Bob for 2 4th round picks.

Let me explain: had we kept Bob as the backup and let him get to RFA status this off-season without a contract, the only way we lose him is if he signs an offersheet with another team. Anything under 1.7M or so and he's well worth retaining, so the only way we let him go is if another team offersheets him @ 1.7M or above. If we decide to not match in that case, we get a 2nd round pick as compensation. We received a 2nd and 2 4th round picks in the trade for Bob, hence we basically sacrificed having a good backup / 2nd starter (or potential replacement starting goalie when Bryz struggles like he has) for this season for the low, low price of two 4th round picks. You'll excuse me if those 2 4th round picks don't excite me, given the extremely small likelihood those 4th round picks even play a single game for the Flyers, let alone make a significant impact.

I also think we differ in opinion because you look at the Bob trade as an isolated incident, while I look at it as a chain reaction from the Bryz deal. I can't just look at it in a vaccum because the Bryz contract is what forced the Bob trade. When you look at Holmgren's goaltending moves as a whole, he cannot be defended. He brought over a young rookie goalie from Russia and immediately installed him as the starting goalie on the Flyers; that alone would be considered mad by most GMs. But then it actually worked and he played well for the majority of the season, he looked like a real gem of a prospect. Then he hit a wall because he had played more games in a single season than he had ever done before in his career and he struggled a bit in the playoffs and before you knew it, Holmgren had relegated him to the bench in favor of Bryz and his 9 year contract. At that point the writing was on the wall and we later traded him away to Columbus.

The whole Bob/Bryz situation is basically a clinic for other GMs on how not to handle a goaltending prospect and in general how not to address the goaltending position on your team, from bringing Bob over and starting him right away to replacing him after he struggled to signing Bryz to that monstrosity of a contract to the ever comical return of Leighton and Boosh as the incompetent backups who get paid to not play / not spell Bryz, despite the fact that Bryz clearly needs it.

So yeah, I think he deserves a ton of criticism for his handling of Bobrovsky, from the start to the end. And I also think he deserves some criticism for not keeping Bob this year as a backup plan to Bryz. I know you're a Holmgren homer, but I'd hope you would be willing to admit that it should've been obvious to Homer that the compliance buyout was going to be part of the new CBA. Given that it was part of the last CBA and that GMs and owners are constantly talking to each other, it should've at the very least been in Homer's mind that the compliance buyout was a very realistic possibility. Instead of having an internal backup plan in case we amnesty Bryz, we now have only 2 options: 1) Stick w/ the abysmal Bryzgalov or 2) amnesty him and go w/ a past-prime goalie or a short-term deal or give another big contract to a guy like Backstrom. A better GM would've had Bobrovsky available as the much more attractive option #3.
I generally agree with all of this. Having said that, Stolarz was projected as going later than the Flyers took him. They likely had him in mind acquiring CLB's 2nd rounder. Basically, they traded a good young goalie for a goalie prospect that they liked and thought would develop later, thus allowed Bryz to handle more workload and not be challenged for a while. This was idiotic.

Vancouver's treatment of Schneider and LA's treatment of Bernier are examples of how young goalies should be develop. Who the hell cares if the existing starter feels pressured or any other excuse? How would any team develop any young goalies if that was how they all acted?

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Old
03-12-2013, 07:49 AM
  #110
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I checked on Bob's stat's like a week or 2 ago, and he was below a .900 SV%.

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03-12-2013, 08:19 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by CyborgLindros View Post
Sorry for digging this up.

My friend saw Grubauer in Reading and said he couldn't believe he wasn't on the Bears. I saw him the night they played the Phantoms and was amazed. I'd love him but I don't think they'd be as quick to move him. Holtby is there to stay with that extension. I just think the Caps have better Goalies to acquire than Bob.
Grubauer looks good in Hershey. Saw him two nights ago vs the Sens. He just needs more time in the starting role to develop.

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03-12-2013, 08:31 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
It's all good man, just seems like you defend Holmgren a lot. And I dunno how you defend him for the Bob trade. Was the value that we got terrible? No. But when you look at what we subsequently did (brought back Boosh/Leights), it was a terrible move. We have no reliable backup goalie for this year because we traded Bob.
I defend it because it was the right move. Trading Bob was a good move. Bringing back Leighton and Boosh was not. The two are not related. He should have gotten a better backup. That doesn't change anything with Bob.

Quote:
If I offered you a legit backup goalie for 2 4th round picks, would you take it? Of course you would. And that's what makes the Bob trade so bad, we essentially traded Bob for 2 4th round picks.

Let me explain: had we kept Bob as the backup and let him get to RFA status this off-season without a contract, the only way we lose him is if he signs an offersheet with another team. Anything under 1.7M or so and he's well worth retaining, so the only way we let him go is if another team offersheets him @ 1.7M or above. If we decide to not match in that case, we get a 2nd round pick as compensation. We received a 2nd and 2 4th round picks in the trade for Bob, hence we basically sacrificed having a good backup / 2nd starter (or potential replacement starting goalie when Bryz struggles like he has) for this season for the low, low price of two 4th round picks. You'll excuse me if those 2 4th round picks don't excite me, given the extremely small likelihood those 4th round picks even play a single game for the Flyers, let alone make a significant impact.
I'm a little confused here. Bob's salary is $1.7 million now. This kind of goes to my post earlier (watch out, hypothetical coming). When he reaches RFA, he's going to get a raise. Very few young players (good players) do not, even when RFA. He may not betting a massive raise, but it is safe to say he will get over $2 million. I can't imagine the Flyers matching that, given the situation with Bryz (nor can I imagine the fans on here being ok with a backup goalie getting paid that much when the starter is already paid $5 million). So it is likely the Flyers would have gotten a second rounder. In the real world, they got more than that. Yes, Homer made a bad move with Bryz's contract and with the backups he signed post-Bob. But again, those two different issues from the issue of trading Bob. Bob should have been traded. Michael Leighton and Boosh should not have been signed.

I guess my question to you might be, would you be ok with the Bob trade if Homer signed a better backup?

Quote:
I also think we differ in opinion because you look at the Bob trade as an isolated incident, while I look at it as a chain reaction from the Bryz deal. I can't just look at it in a vaccum because the Bryz contract is what forced the Bob trade. When you look at Holmgren's goaltending moves as a whole, he cannot be defended. He brought over a young rookie goalie from Russia and immediately installed him as the starting goalie on the Flyers; that alone would be considered mad by most GMs. But then it actually worked and he played well for the majority of the season, he looked like a real gem of a prospect. Then he hit a wall because he had played more games in a single season than he had ever done before in his career and he struggled a bit in the playoffs and before you knew it, Holmgren had relegated him to the bench in favor of Bryz and his 9 year contract. At that point the writing was on the wall and we later traded him away to Columbus.
It appears this is the case. Your problem seems to be with the Bryz contract, which is fine. I think everyone has a problem with that contract. But that was already in the books. Bob had to be traded, the Flyers got good value for him given his performance in the previous year/two playoffs.

Quote:
The whole Bob/Bryz situation is basically a clinic for other GMs on how not to handle a goaltending prospect and in general how not to address the goaltending position on your team, from bringing Bob over and starting him right away to replacing him after he struggled to signing Bryz to that monstrosity of a contract to the ever comical return of Leighton and Boosh as the incompetent backups who get paid to not play / not spell Bryz, despite the fact that Bryz clearly needs it.
Absolutely. The whole goalie situation was not handled well. I don't know that if I were in charge I wouldn't have signed Bryz. His contract is the real issue. I don't think it was the wrong move to go after Bryz, I think it was the wrong move to give him such a lengthy deal. It did signal the end for Bob, but it was something that had to be done.

Quote:
So yeah, I think he deserves a ton of criticism for his handling of Bobrovsky, from the start to the end. And I also think he deserves some criticism for not keeping Bob this year as a backup plan to Bryz. I know you're a Holmgren homer, but I'd hope you would be willing to admit that it should've been obvious to Homer that the compliance buyout was going to be part of the new CBA. Given that it was part of the last CBA and that GMs and owners are constantly talking to each other, it should've at the very least been in Homer's mind that the compliance buyout was a very realistic possibility. Instead of having an internal backup plan in case we amnesty Bryz, we now have only 2 options: 1) Stick w/ the abysmal Bryzgalov or 2) amnesty him and go w/ a past-prime goalie or a short-term deal or give another big contract to a guy like Backstrom. A better GM would've had Bobrovsky available as the much more attractive option #3.
Wow, now he should have been aware of what was going on in the new CBA that wasn't even being discussed (or was in its infancy) when Bob was traded? That is a stretch. Your other arguments make sense and I think are fair positions (though I don't agree with them). This is just nonsense.


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03-12-2013, 09:46 AM
  #113
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From a Jacket's fan perspective, I think Mason gets moved (if possible). I'm not fully up on the qualifying of RFAs, as to whether it is the player's cap hit or salary that gets applied, but Mason as a back-up, assuming Bob keeps this up, is not worth the amount of money it would take to qualify him.

Others have been ragging on the CBJ defense... the whole team plays defense, not just the defensemen. The problem has been scoring. A bad defensive team does not end up in the top 5-7 in PK%. Look a little more carefully at the final scores in the games. I wouldn't be surprised if the CBJ have had more 1 goal games than everyone else in the league.

Also columbus has had issues with injuries on the blueline(isn't wisniewski out?) an still play well defensively. Also have a ton of promising young players back there to grow with bob. It's a good situation IMO. Honestly feel CBJ is in a better place today than Philadelphia is.

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03-12-2013, 01:28 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by BleedOrange View Post
Sergei Bobrovsky has been named the 1st Star of the Week by the NHL!

4-0-0 record with a 0.77 goals-against average, .972 save percentage and one shutout in four games last week, stopping 106-of-109 shots in 233 minutes of action...


Nice to see some team has a goalie that can stop a puck once in a while.
That's awesome news! I hope he continues this hot streak of his.

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03-12-2013, 02:41 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
Also columbus has had issues with injuries on the blueline(isn't wisniewski out?) an still play well defensively. Also have a ton of promising young players back there to grow with bob. It's a good situation IMO. Honestly feel CBJ is in a better place today than Philadelphia is.
CBJ have used 11 defensemen through the course of the season. A few days ago that was the most in the NHL.

J Johnson, Wisniewski (out with broken foot), Tyutin, Nikitin, Aucoin, Erixon, Moore (hurt right now), Prout, Goloubef, Savard, and Holden.

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03-12-2013, 03:11 PM
  #116
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I checked on Bob's stat's like a week or 2 ago, and he was below a .900 SV%.
yea. he's on a hot streak but i've been watching his highlights and i don't know if anyone brought this up but he is not the same goaie he was when he played here. remember the whole when in doubt go into the butterfly and get scored up high every time through traffic? doesn't look like he does that as much now. he stays on his feet and plays way bigger in the net. my point is obviously whoever columbus's goalie coach is adjusted his game cause that is not how he played here. regardless of what happens with bryzgalov, we need a new goalie coach. reese sucks. why don't we just get allan bester?

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03-12-2013, 03:22 PM
  #117
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I wouldn't mind trying to snag Sean Burke out of Phoenix. With the uncertainty of where they will playing in the next couple years maybe he'd be willing to leave.

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03-12-2013, 03:23 PM
  #118
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yea. he's on a hot streak but i've been watching his highlights and i don't know if anyone brought this up but he is not the same goaie he was when he played here. remember the whole when in doubt go into the butterfly and get scored up high every time through traffic? doesn't look like he does that as much now. he stays on his feet and plays way bigger in the net. my point is obviously whoever columbus's goalie coach is adjusted his game cause that is not how he played here. regardless of what happens with bryzgalov, we need a new goalie coach. reese sucks. why don't we just get allan bester?

Bob started to play more on his feet, and went down later towards the end of his time here. Like, the very end.

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03-12-2013, 03:36 PM
  #119
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yea. he's on a hot streak but i've been watching his highlights and i don't know if anyone brought this up but he is not the same goaie he was when he played here. remember the whole when in doubt go into the butterfly and get scored up high every time through traffic? doesn't look like he does that as much now. he stays on his feet and plays way bigger in the net. my point is obviously whoever columbus's goalie coach is adjusted his game cause that is not how he played here. regardless of what happens with bryzgalov, we need a new goalie coach. reese sucks. why don't we just get allan bester?
CBJ goalie coach = Ian Clark

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Old
03-12-2013, 06:16 PM
  #120
CyborgLindros
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Originally Posted by Gimor View Post
Grubauer looks good in Hershey. Saw him two nights ago vs the Sens. He just needs more time in the starting role to develop.
He stood on his head. Now I realize the Phantoms aren't an offense force, but shots that should be goals on any goalie were saved the night I saw him. I wish we could trade for him I really do. He could be our solution in maybe 2-3 years. I don't know much about him but I've only heard and seen good things. My families resident caps fan won't shutup about him.

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Old
03-12-2013, 07:07 PM
  #121
FreshPerspective
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
yea. he's on a hot streak but i've been watching his highlights and i don't know if anyone brought this up but he is not the same goaie he was when he played here. remember the whole when in doubt go into the butterfly and get scored up high every time through traffic? doesn't look like he does that as much now. he stays on his feet and plays way bigger in the net. my point is obviously whoever columbus's goalie coach is adjusted his game cause that is not how he played here. regardless of what happens with bryzgalov, we need a new goalie coach. reese sucks. why don't we just get allan bester?
Yeah I noticed it too. Seriously, Reese needs to go..he blow. Along with him send that idiot McCrossin packing. Actually, I wish all of management and the coaching staff would resign and we start from scratch. You can't fire a whole team but nobody said all of management can't be overthrown. I'm going to initiate a Declaration of Independence...we hold these truths to be self evident that Flyers management sucks....

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Old
03-12-2013, 07:26 PM
  #122
Ryker
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
yea. he's on a hot streak but i've been watching his highlights and i don't know if anyone brought this up but he is not the same goaie he was when he played here. remember the whole when in doubt go into the butterfly and get scored up high every time through traffic? doesn't look like he does that as much now. he stays on his feet and plays way bigger in the net. my point is obviously whoever columbus's goalie coach is adjusted his game cause that is not how he played here. regardless of what happens with bryzgalov, we need a new goalie coach. reese sucks. why don't we just get allan bester?
Might not be the coaching he got in Columbus. Might also be coaching he got in SKA.

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Old
03-12-2013, 07:28 PM
  #123
Diamonddog01
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Bob is looking sick tonight. He's a good starter now, and potentially top 10 in a year or two imo.

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Old
03-12-2013, 08:44 PM
  #124
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He lost in shoot out, but bob was SICK tonight. He's playing ridiculous right now

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Old
03-12-2013, 09:45 PM
  #125
WeekendAtBernies
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Absolutely. The whole goalie situation was not handled well. I don't know that if I were in charge I wouldn't have signed Bryz. His contract is the real issue. I don't think it was the wrong move to go after Bryz, I think it was the wrong move to give him such a lengthy deal. It did signal the end for Bob, but it was something that had to be done.
No, getting Bryzgalov didn't have to be done. It's the total wrong move to sign a 30+ year old goalie just as you're trading two of your top veterans for youth. If you're going with the youth movement, you want a goalie who will be entering his prime the same time as the other guys on the team. That goalie was Bobrovsky, not Bryzgalov. Acquiring Bryzgalov was a dumb overreaction to what had happened the past 2 years. Bryzgalov would've been the perfect goalie for 09-10 or 10-11, but we're not living in the past and that's the problem; our GMs always seem to be chasing past. Bryzgalov was the wrong choice for this team, given the other moves we were making. Getting rid of Bob only compounded that mistake, and not acquiring a legit backup only further compounded that mistake.

And now we're right back in goaltending hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Wow, now he should have been aware of what was going on in the new CBA that wasn't even being discussed (or was in its infancy) when Bob was traded? That is a stretch. Your other arguments make sense and I think are fair positions (though I don't agree with them). This is just nonsense.
Notice I didn't say he should have been 100% sure, but should it have been on his mind? Absolutely.

Come on man, you really don't think the GMs had some idea of what the owners & players wanted in the upcoming CBA? It's not like the CBA was YEARS out when Bob was traded, it was mere months away from expiring and talks had been held and ideas about what each side wanted were fairly well developed. Anyone with even a modicum of business knowledge could see that amnesty buyouts were a likely proposition. They'd been included in the last CBA, and in the last NBA CBA with great success and it was well known the owners were asking for a sharp reduction in the salary cap. The only way you can roll back the salary cap sharply and still allow teams who made moves based on the old cap to remain cap compliant is to allow some buyouts. There were several articles from people with no inside knowledge whatsoever speculating about NHL amnesty prior to / right around the Bob trade. Here's just a few examples:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...or-next-season

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2012/3/2...alary-cap-2012

It was clearly something that was going to be on the table.

Now maybe you and I have a different idea of "smart business", but I actually think our thoughts align a good deal if you're willing to be honest. I've seen you argue in another thread that 4th round draft picks are hardly that valuable (I believe it was a thread about Gagne, perhaps?) and quite frankly I agree. So while you're technically correct that trading Bob for a 2nd + 2 4ths gives us more value than just taking a 2nd for Bob as an RFA, I think we both know those 2 4ths really mean very little in the grand scheme of things. Unless you want to totally contradict what you've said in the past about mid-late draft picks, I think we can agree on that, can't we?

If we can agree on that, then I'd hope we can also perhaps agree that after watching Bryz play a disastrous 1st year in Philadelphia, despite being signed to that ridiculous contract, that maybe, just maybe, it would be worth sacrificing those 2 4th round picks to see what happens with the CBA, knowing that the salary cap was likely going down (which makes Bryz's contract even more unbearable) and knowing that the amnesty clause was an option.

_______________________________

To put it another way, since I think our argument is mostly over assumptions about what Homer knew / didn't know let's try a "hypothetical".

HYPOTHETICALLY, if you put yourself in Homer's shoes and you ASSUME in this hypothetical example that there's a 50% chance of an amnesty clause being included in the new CBA and a 100% chance that the cap goes down (how much it is going down is unknown at the time), and you know that you can get a 2nd round pick for Bob after the 12-13 season, would you still trade Bob for a 2nd and two 4ths in the 2012 offseason, or would you hold onto him?

I think in this hypothetical, it's clear you hold onto him.

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