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Gagner NEEDS to stay an Oiler . . .

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:54 PM
  #26
oil10
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Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers View Post
Who says we can't win with Gagner? His game has taken a big step this year, i wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility for him to keep rounding out his overall game to the point where he is adequate on faceoffs and defensively. The guy is still only 23 years old and seemingly has an endless amount of desire to improve his game. His faceoffs are still a cause for concern of course, but even if he can't improve them, who's to say he can't play the wing long term with a bigger 2C.

Either way, I think this guy looks like an ideal 2nd line player, whether it be at center with a big winger or on the wing with a big center: of course provided that he can improve his two way play, which I think he can. Despite the need for size here you can't just go blindly selling off players that can give you 65 points.
Well said . . . . . I agree 100%

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:00 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers View Post
Who says we can't win with Gagner? His game has taken a big step this year, i wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility for him to keep rounding out his overall game to the point where he is adequate on faceoffs and defensively. The guy is still only 23 years old and seemingly has an endless amount of desire to improve his game. His faceoffs are still a cause for concern of course, but even if he can't improve them, who's to say he can't play the wing long term with a bigger 2C.

Either way, I think this guy looks like an ideal 2nd line player, whether it be at center with a big winger or on the wing with a big center: of course provided that he can improve his two way play, which I think he can. Despite the need for size here you can't just go blindly selling off players that can give you 65 points.
His track record speaks for itself! No, one has to say anything. I like Samwise Gamgies but if you want to play with the big boys you can't be sending Rudy out there on a consistent basis. I think he'll be around till the time comes to compete with the elite of the league. I think his most glaring weakness is his skating and how much better can that really get at this point. He look's better suited for the wing but with ebs and yak there I'd say he will be shipped out once Barkov or Mckinnon are ready to roll. Hopefully by that point he isn't back to his usual 40 points a season form and we actually get something for him.

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03-12-2013, 02:04 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
His track record speaks for itself! No, one has to say anything. I like Samwise Gamgies but if you want to play with the big boys you can't be sending Rudy out there on a consistent basis. I think he'll be around till the time comes to compete with the elite of the league. I think his most glaring weakness is his skating and how much better can that really get at this point. He look's better suited for the wing but with ebs and yak there I'd say he will be shipped out once Barkov or Mckinnon are ready to roll. Hopefully by that point he isn't back to his usual 40 points a season form and we actually get something for him.
"Glaring weakness" This is a guy thats put up 250 NHL pts as a 23yr old.

Theres weakness he had thats "glaring" period.

Gagners first step has improved immensely and with it his getting to loose pucks, evading checks, and getting in the clear.

Man Gagner sure looked ****ing slow on the two goals in Chicago. Too bad we don't have somebody that can skate for dem pucks..

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:09 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
His track record speaks for itself! No, one has to say anything. I like Samwise Gamgies but if you want to play with the big boys you can't be sending Rudy out there on a consistent basis. I think he'll be around till the time comes to compete with the elite of the league. I think his most glaring weakness is his skating and how much better can that really get at this point. He look's better suited for the wing but with ebs and yak there I'd say he will be shipped out once Barkov or Mckinnon are ready to roll. Hopefully by that point he isn't back to his usual 40 points a season form and we actually get something for him.
So because he has been part of a brutal team for his entire career, he has a bad track record and isn't useful?

He and Taylor Hall have been the two best forwards this season, and he hasn't hit a wall yet like i'm sure a lot of people expected. I genuinely believe that his game has turned a corner and while he may not produce at .92 pts per game consistently after this season, I do think he can maintain around .8 pts per game (~65 pts).

And how exactly is he "Rudy"? 5'11, 199 isn't huge but it's bigger than Eberle and Yakupov and he is heavier than any other top 6 forward on the team.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:42 PM
  #30
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So what happens when he asks for 5.5 for six years and a NTC? I love his game and want to keep him, but he will cost a lot at this point. There is always some idiot GM out there that will offer him a ROR type contract.

Is he at risk of an OS? I think so if he is unsigned by July 1.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:44 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
"Glaring weakness" This is a guy thats put up 250 NHL pts as a 23yr old.

Theres weakness he had thats "glaring" period.

Gagners first step has improved immensely and with it his getting to loose pucks, evading checks, and getting in the clear.

Man Gagner sure looked ****ing slow on the two goals in Chicago. Too bad we don't have somebody that can skate for dem pucks..
As I recall he was standing still at the side of the net on one and I would credit the second to an amazing pass by whitney which caught the chicago defense flat footed while Gagner was skating full tilt. I think even Smutty could have pulled that one off. I'm not saying I hate Gagners offensive game. He has definately improved and can hold his own. The problem is you need an all around game to complete for a cup which I am assuming one day they want to. When that day comes I question whether he has the tools to bring his game to where it needs to be. Let's hope he proves this wrong.

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03-12-2013, 02:50 PM
  #32
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Nobody is saying Gagner hasn't improved immensely. He's been terrific this year, and I've been in the anti-Gagner camp.

It has VERY little to do with how well he's been performing. It has EVERYTHING to do with needing more dimension in our Top 6. We are simply missing Muscles, Boardwork, Faceoffs, physical presence, defensive acumen, and a PEST in our top 6.

It's Gagner or Nuge.

And the reality is that it will soon be Eberle, or Hemsky (which is an easy one for most of us), and quite possibly if the needs of the team aren't met, it might come down to Hall or Yak.

This is VERY tough reality ahead of us. But we have a lot of redundancies in our lineup.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:50 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
As I recall he was standing still at the side of the net on one and I would credit the second to an amazing pass by whitney which caught the chicago defense flat footed while Gagner was skating full tilt. I think even Smutty could have pulled that one off. I'm not saying I hate Gagners offensive game. He has definately improved and can hold his own. The problem is you need an all around game to complete for a cup which I am assuming one day they want to. When that day comes I question whether he has the tools to bring his game to where it needs to be. Let's hope he proves this wrong.
Defense always takes longer to develop. As a forward, I think it's great that he's actually developing his OFFENSE. If you think his defense is bad now, look at him the last few years. He's actually taken huge leaps defensively.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:50 PM
  #34
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good luck getting that deal. if he says no to that, takes you to arbitration, then goes ufa, what are you going to do? put another rookie in? sell for futures?



pay up. the sooner the better.
You still give him the $5 million + deal if he won't sign for less. At that point you would almost have to move him by the time Yakupov is signing his second contract if not sooner.

This is mostly based on my opinion that he's not a good enough 2C in a 200 ft game and the Big 4 will be better players in the long run.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:05 PM
  #35
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Hmm 2nd line C that's sitting tied for 28th overall in pts in the entire league...at a .92 ppg pace....F** it, he's worthless on a Stanley Cup challenging team.

Oh...he's only 23 with 6 years of NHL experience already...nope don't need him. He's not going to get any better...it's not like he hasn't improved over last year...wait... he has? That much huh....?
Oh well...he's too small to be effective..what? he's 5'10-5'11 but weighs in at 199lbs? Nah, he's useless...seriously. We'll never win with him in the lineup.
Come on now. Your talking about Snowpants here. Any talk thats hes any good is crazy talk. All he does is fall. Everyone knows that.
Anfd if you disagree your Tambi or somene. Got it?

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03-12-2013, 03:08 PM
  #36
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Let me show you one example of an augmented line that's capable of winning a cup:

Hall - Backes- Eberle
Clowe - RNH - Downie
MPS - Chris Kelly - Jones
Jared Boll - Lander - Harti

Can Yakupov, Gagner, Belanger, Lander, Smyth, and Hemsky net us a return of players like Backes+Downie+Kelly+Boll?

I TOTALLY think so.


Will that make us a better team? WAAAY better.

Heck, PK Subban for Yakupov rumor floating around at the draft would've made us a better team going forward.

YES we love the kids, but we are gonna have to start trading them to fill in some holes.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:11 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Let me show you one example of an augmented line that's capable of winning a cup:

Hall - Backes- Eberle
Clowe - RNH - Downie
MPS - Chris Kelly - Jones
Jared Boll - Lander - Harti

Can Yakupov, Gagner, Belanger, Lander, Smyth, and Hemsky net us a return of players like Backes+Downie+Kelly+Boll?

I TOTALLY think so.


Will that make us a better team? WAAAY better.
You're totally wrong. Backes is the most important of your additions and St. Louis isn't moving him unless his play falls off a cliff. If that happens, why would we want him?

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:13 PM
  #38
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when people say we can't win with Gagner I always think of Daniel Briere, who has won multiple championships and lead the Flyers in scoring in their run to a G6 defeat in the 2010 Stanley Cup Finals.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:15 PM
  #39
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I agree with Matt, If most posters agree we need a "BIG" 2nd line center, Gags can be moved to the wing, he is skilled and has the work ethic to go with it. Not only that he wants to be an Oiler, remember 4 years ago when Nobody wanted to be an Oiler, the only way gags gets traded is if we get a better player in return. Hemsky can be moved and Gags can take his spot. I know this ship has sailed but I thought Steve Ott would have been a perfect winger for Gags, good on draws, tough and plays tough too.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:16 PM
  #40
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You're totally wrong. Backes is the most important of your additions and St. Louis isn't moving him unless his play falls off a cliff. If that happens, why would we want him?
Wow you totally can't read.


player LIKE Backes.

Player LIKE Backes. Someone who plays a DIFFERENT kind of game that isn't a small 1-dimensional offense like the 6 forwards we currently have.

PLAYERS WITH DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS. Backes was ONE example.

Can you read?

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:17 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by phaedrusDH View Post
when people say we can't win with Gagner I always think of Daniel Briere, who has won multiple championships and lead the Flyers in scoring in their run to a G6 defeat in the 2010 Stanley Cup Finals.
We can totally win with Gagner. We just need to trade Nuge.

See our dilemma? We can't win with Gags, Yak, Nuge and Ebs. 2 of those 4 likely need to go.

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03-12-2013, 03:30 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
We can totally win with Gagner. We just need to trade Nuge.

See our dilemma? We can't win with Gags, Yak, Nuge and Ebs. 2 of those 4 likely need to go.
I don't buy that. The top line is fine.

If we can replace Hemsky with a big, physical winger, the second line looks a lot better too. Gagner's game needs to progress defensively, but being 6'+ isn't a prerequisite to being a solid two-way player.

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03-12-2013, 03:32 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers View Post
So because he has been part of a brutal team for his entire career, he has a bad track record and isn't useful?

He and Taylor Hall have been the two best forwards this season, and he hasn't hit a wall yet like i'm sure a lot of people expected. I genuinely believe that his game has turned a corner and while he may not produce at .92 pts per game consistently after this season, I do think he can maintain around .8 pts per game (~65 pts).

And how exactly is he "Rudy"? 5'11, 199 isn't huge but it's bigger than Eberle and Yakupov and he is heavier than any other top 6 forward on the team.

First, I was trying to point out the obvious to an individual who was asking, "Who says the oilers can't win with gamgies?" He then went on to point out what a wonderful season he was having side skirting the fact the team is still near the basement. Is it all his fault? no. Do you have to ask the question and assess whether he is part of the solution? yes I have my doubts, I'm pretty sure management does too. Time will tell.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:33 PM
  #44
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If we trade Gagner right now not only do we open up a hole at 2C, we open one up at C in general. I hate to break it to you fanboys, but RNH hasn't proved anything yet and if all of you beat to the drum of Gagner not being big enough for a cup run, well, take a long look at what you have in RNH too.

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03-12-2013, 03:36 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Nobody is saying Gagner hasn't improved immensely. He's been terrific this year, and I've been in the anti-Gagner camp.

It has VERY little to do with how well he's been performing. It has EVERYTHING to do with needing more dimension in our Top 6. We are simply missing Muscles, Boardwork, Faceoffs, physical presence, defensive acumen, and a PEST in our top 6.

It's Gagner or Nuge.

And the reality is that it will soon be Eberle, or Hemsky (which is an easy one for most of us), and quite possibly if the needs of the team aren't met, it might come down to Hall or Yak.

This is VERY tough reality ahead of us. But we have a lot of redundancies in our lineup.
Just like how it's Bergeron or Krejci, right?

How much bigger is Mick Richards than Gagner? Richards is 5'11, is he too small for a playoff team?

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03-12-2013, 03:42 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by phaedrusDH View Post
when people say we can't win with Gagner I always think of Daniel Briere, who has won multiple championships and lead the Flyers in scoring in their run to a G6 defeat in the 2010 Stanley Cup Finals.
Huh, must be a championship tiddly winks player?!?!

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:42 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Just like how it's Bergeron or Krejci, right?

How much bigger is Mick Richards than Gagner? Richards is 5'11, is he too small for a playoff team?
Exactly, and just to add to this:

Datsyuk 5'11''
Draper 5'10''
Lehtinen 6'0''
Peca 5'11''
John Madden 5'11''

Some past Selke winners.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:44 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by SeriousBusiness View Post
Exactly, and just to add to this:

Datsyuk 5'11''
Draper 5'10''
Lehtinen 6'0''
Peca 5'11''
John Madden 5'11''

Some past Selke winners.
Then look at the big centers who have done nothing, Thornton, Kelser, etc

Who was Chicagos 2C when they won? Who is it now? Who cares?

There isn't a definitive model you have to go by, you pick the players who want to win the most and you'll be rewarded.

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03-12-2013, 03:47 PM
  #49
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Then look at the big centers who have done nothing, Thornton, Kelser, etc

Who was Chicagos 2C when they won? Who is it now? Who cares?

There isn't a definitive model you have to go by, you pick the players who want to win the most and you'll be rewarded.
I agree completely, and it's a bit surprising how many posters here feel that Gagner at 2C is going to make or break our shot at a Stanley Cup.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:49 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Just like how it's Bergeron or Krejci, right?

How much bigger is Mick Richards than Gagner? Richards is 5'11, is he too small for a playoff team?
Richards could hold SS over him knee and spank the crap out him and Gagner would never be able to free himself.

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