HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Gagner NEEDS to stay an Oiler . . .

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-12-2013, 03:54 PM
  #51
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Richards could hold SS over him knee and spank the crap out him and Gagner would never be able to free himself.
If he could do that to Gagner, I don't even want to imagine what he can do to Hopkins.

Mr Forever is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 03:55 PM
  #52
Koto
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
So what happens when he asks for 5.5 for six years and a NTC? I love his game and want to keep him, but he will cost a lot at this point. There is always some idiot GM out there that will offer him a ROR type contract.

Is he at risk of an OS? I think so if he is unsigned by July 1.
You negotiate down to 5.25 and pay the man.

How does the concern of over paying him possibly out weigh the concern of Horcoff+Belanger+Lander at 2-4C

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Nobody is saying Gagner hasn't improved immensely. He's been terrific this year, and I've been in the anti-Gagner camp.

It has VERY little to do with how well he's been performing. It has EVERYTHING to do with needing more dimension in our Top 6. We are simply missing Muscles, Boardwork, Faceoffs, physical presence, defensive acumen, and a PEST in our top 6.

It's Gagner or Nuge.

And the reality is that it will soon be Eberle, or Hemsky (which is an easy one for most of us), and quite possibly if the needs of the team aren't met, it might come down to Hall or Yak.

This is VERY tough reality ahead of us. But we have a lot of redundancies in our lineup.
Great theory, but no one is going to give us an upgrade on Gagner, for Gagner.

So basically you need to keep Gagner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Let me show you one example of an augmented line that's capable of winning a cup:

Hall - Backes- Eberle
Clowe - RNH - Downie
MPS - Chris Kelly - Jones
Jared Boll - Lander - Harti

Can Yakupov, Gagner, Belanger, Lander, Smyth, and Hemsky net us a return of players like Backes+Downie+Kelly+Boll?

I TOTALLY think so.


Will that make us a better team? WAAAY better.

Heck, PK Subban for Yakupov rumor floating around at the draft would've made us a better team going forward.

YES we love the kids, but we are gonna have to start trading them to fill in some holes.
Uh you're not getting Backes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Wow you totally can't read.


player LIKE Backes.

Player LIKE Backes. Someone who plays a DIFFERENT kind of game that isn't a small 1-dimensional offense like the 6 forwards we currently have.

PLAYERS WITH DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS. Backes was ONE example.

Can you read?
Or one 'like' him.


Disclaimer: Dubinsky is not 'like' Backes.


Also props on opening and closing your comment with the same marginally modified derogatory comment towards the first poster.

Did you forget you wrote it the first time?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Then look at the big centers who have done nothing, Thornton, Kelser, etc

Who was Chicagos 2C when they won? Who is it now? Who cares?

There isn't a definitive model you have to go by, you pick the players who want to win the most and you'll be rewarded.
Well actually i think it was and is sharp...pretty good player, but not a tower either.

Koto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 03:56 PM
  #53
nabob
Hall for captain
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousBusiness View Post
Exactly, and just to add to this:

Datsyuk 5'11''
Draper 5'10''
Lehtinen 6'0''
Peca 5'11''
John Madden 5'11''

Some past Selke winners.
Gagner has been a brutal to poor defensive player every single one of his 6 seasons in the NHL so far. We might as well bring Cory Cross out of retirement because he is almost as big as Chara. That should fix our defensive issues.

Sam has been much more engaged this season as compared to previous years and is taking a leadership role it appears. I bet he felt slighted when the team didnt offer him more than a one year deal and that he wasnt even in the conversation for a letter on his jersey. He felt he had something to prove, he was right he had a lot to prove this year. So far he has proven that he can put 20 good games together and make use of some of the very talented players around him. Ideally he is moved to wing and a center who can win faceoffs and puck battles is brought in or drafted (Barkov). A 2nd line in 2 seasons of Gagner - Barkov - Yakupov could be incredibly dynamic.

nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 03:58 PM
  #54
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,070
vCash: 500
Don't worry, he's not going anywhere. Based on Timid Tambi's mid-season presser he's not actively looking to move anybody.

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 03:59 PM
  #55
nabob
Hall for captain
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
If he could do that to Gagner, I don't even want to imagine what he can do to Hopkins.
Just wait a year or two and RNH will be doing the same to Gagner after practice, as long as management decides to either have surgery done on his messed shoulder or sit him out for the rest of the season to heal it. They have proven to be totally incompetent with the way they have handled Horcoff's and Hemsky's shoulder problems. hopefully they dont waste two years of Hopkins doing the same.

nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:00 PM
  #56
worraps
Acceptance
 
worraps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Wow you totally can't read.


player LIKE Backes.

Player LIKE Backes. Someone who plays a DIFFERENT kind of game that isn't a small 1-dimensional offense like the 6 forwards we currently have.

PLAYERS WITH DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS. Backes was ONE example.

Can you read?
A player like Backes is a perennial Selke nominee. Good luck finding someone who is willing to trade one. Good luck identifying one before he gets to a Selke level.

A player like Malkin or Crosby would be helpful too but said unknown player will be drafted first or second overall, not traded for. Unless we continue to suck we won't get him either.

We should probably trade for a goalie like Jonathan Quick or Henrik Lundqvist while we are at it.

worraps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:00 PM
  #57
Horseradish
Registered User
 
Horseradish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
As I recall he was standing still at the side of the net on one and I would credit the second to an amazing pass by whitney which caught the chicago defense flat footed while Gagner was skating full tilt. I think even Smutty could have pulled that one off. I'm not saying I hate Gagners offensive game. He has definately improved and can hold his own. The problem is you need an all around game to complete for a cup which I am assuming one day they want to. When that day comes I question whether he has the tools to bring his game to where it needs to be. Let's hope he proves this wrong.
Yeah, there's no way in hell we could ever even make it to a cup final, let alone win one, without a guy like Andy McDonald, Danny Briere, or Doug Weight anchoring the second li---....nevermind.

Horseradish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:01 PM
  #58
ChadSC
SportingCharts
 
ChadSC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 92
vCash: 500
Of active centers with over 100 games played, Gagner is the 48th most efficient scorer. Seems like a pretty solid 2C.

Gagner is 5'11" and 191 lbs - the average center is 6'0.5" and 198 lbs.

ChadSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:02 PM
  #59
KlimasLoveChild
Registered User
 
KlimasLoveChild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: The Toilet of Canada
Posts: 1,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
If we trade Gagner right now not only do we open up a hole at 2C, we open one up at C in general. I hate to break it to you fanboys, but RNH hasn't proved anything yet and if all of you beat to the drum of Gagner not being big enough for a cup run, well, take a long look at what you have in RNH too.
At 19 he has proven he is better then Gagner at 23. Let's get serious, Nuge is the best talent this organization has seen in twenty years. There are zero question marks in my mind when it comes to the NUGE. He needs time and experience that's about it. I see Gagner here for at least a couple more seasons, let's hope he can set his game up!!

KlimasLoveChild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:02 PM
  #60
Matt19Oilers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 797
vCash: 500
Of course there are better fits for the 2C in Edmonton, but I would love to know just how any of you that think Gagner needs to go figure that one could be available, much less how to aquire one. 1C and 2C are so valuable that teams don't just go offering them up, and we can't afford to just aquire one marginally better than Gagner if it means opening up more holes.

I'd love to see Gagner on the wing with a big center ideally.
But if getting that big C involves giving up so much that it sets the team back, then i'd rather we do the easier thing: find a big winger and keep Gagner at C.

Matt19Oilers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:02 PM
  #61
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Just wait a year or two and RNH will be doing the same to Gagner after practice, as long as management decides to either have surgery done on his messed shoulder or sit him out for the rest of the season to heal it. They have proven to be totally incompetent with the way they have handled Horcoff's and Hemsky's shoulder problems. hopefully they dont waste two years of Hopkins doing the same.
I wonder if Hopkins was drafted 6th overall in 07 and Gagner was first overall in 11 if this would even be a discussion.

Mr Forever is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:09 PM
  #62
nabob
Hall for captain
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
I wonder if Hopkins was drafted 6th overall in 07 and Gagner was first overall in 11 if this would even be a discussion.
your point being that Gagner besides a few more 2nd assists and tap in goals hasnt really progressed at all since his rookie season??

nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:13 PM
  #63
Mentallydull
Registered User
 
Mentallydull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oil Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jukon View Post
I would like to keep Gagner but for him to stay he needs to be:
1- Better at faceoffs
2- Better defensively
3- Reasonably priced
This, this, this, and this.

There's no doubt he has offensive flair to his game but some of the decisions he makes are so boneheaded that it's amazing. See the Chicago game where on the PP he gives the puck up to the forechecker, takes an interference penalty, and is then seen standing still around center ice instead of chasing down the puck he just coughed up.

We do have a lot of defensive holes in our top 6, I don't doubt that either, but someone who has played for 6 years and has been making an effort to improve his game defensively should not look this bad defensively.

My main concern is that our top 2 lines don't have anybody that can win a faceoff consistently. If you want to move Gagner to a wing I'd have no issues with that, otherwise you need to bring in somebody that can give you puck possession off offensive zone draws.

I see RNH having a brighter future than Gagner (provided this shoulder thing doesn't **** him up completely) in terms of offensive and defensive potential, so if you can't move Gagner to a wing then trade him for something we DO need.

Mentallydull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:15 PM
  #64
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
your point being that Gagner besides a few more 2nd assists and tap in goals hasnt really progressed at all since his rookie season??
My point being that people are going to be really disappointed when RNH doesn't become this god-being that they expect him to be. No I don't have a crystal ball, I just don't see it in him at all. A lot of people are going to e disappointed.

And the reasons we all seem to hate Gagner will become RNHs weaknesses too. Bad on draws, weak, mediocre skater etc.

Mr Forever is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:25 PM
  #65
nabob
Hall for captain
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
My point being that people are going to be really disappointed when RNH doesn't become this god-being that they expect him to be. No I don't have a crystal ball, I just don't see it in him at all. A lot of people are going to e disappointed.

And the reasons we all seem to hate Gagner will become RNHs weaknesses too. Bad on draws, weak, mediocre skater etc.
Hahahaha Nuge was stronger and a better skater in his rookie season than Gagner is in his 6th season.

Pretty easy to pile on a 19 year old kid who is facing un-sheltered top line minutes while playing hurt. Hopkins put up more points in 62 games last season than Gagner ever has in any season, while playing better defensive hockey than Gagner ever has.

I know lets just blame Omark for that.

nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:28 PM
  #66
worraps
Acceptance
 
worraps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
My point being that people are going to be really disappointed when RNH doesn't become this god-being that they expect him to be. No I don't have a crystal ball, I just don't see it in him at all. A lot of people are going to e disappointed.

And the reasons we all seem to hate Gagner will become RNHs weaknesses too. Bad on draws, weak, mediocre skater etc.
I can't even fathom how someone can watch RNH play and classify him as a mediocre skater.

Can't even fathom it.

Was he rude to one of your friends at a club one-time too?

worraps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:28 PM
  #67
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Hahahaha Nuge was stronger and a better skater in his rookie season than Gagner is in his 6th season.

Pretty easy to pile on a 19 year old kid who is facing un-sheltered top line minutes while playing hurt. Hopkins put up more points in 62 games last season than Gagner ever has in any season, while playing better defensive hockey than Gagner ever has.

I know lets just blame Omark for that.
Obviously he's better than Gagner, all I'm saying is he has the same weaknesses and its just a matter of time before the first overall pick tag wears off and we realize it.

People saying we can't win with Gagner, well, if that's the case we can't win with Hopkins either.

Mr Forever is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:30 PM
  #68
nabob
Hall for captain
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Obviously he's better than Gagner, all I'm saying is he has the same weaknesses and its just a matter of time before the first overall pick tag wears off and we realize it.

People saying we can't win with Gagner, well, if that's the case we can't win with Hopkins either.
That is exactly the reason why Gagner is a bad fit as the 2nd line center for this club long term. Thank you for proving my point for me.

nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:31 PM
  #69
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
That is exactly the reason why Gagner is a bad fit as the 2nd line center for this club long term. Thank you for proving my point for me.
You want your first line center to have those weaknesses? Okay congrats. Good point.

Mr Forever is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:32 PM
  #70
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,070
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
I can't even fathom how someone can watch RNH play and classify him as a mediocre skater.

Can't even fathom it.

Was he rude to one of your friends at a club one-time too?
RNH's skating was impeccable last year but he does seem like he's lost a stride or two this year.

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:34 PM
  #71
worraps
Acceptance
 
worraps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
RNH's skating was impeccable last year but he does seem like he's lost a stride or two this year.
There is more to skating than breakaway speed and it's ridiculous to claim that a 19 year old with no lower body injuries has 'lost a step'.

There is only a handful of players in the world that are as good on their edges as RNH is.

worraps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:34 PM
  #72
Mentallydull
Registered User
 
Mentallydull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oil Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Obviously he's better than Gagner, all I'm saying is he has the same weaknesses and its just a matter of time before the first overall pick tag wears off and we realize it.

People saying we can't win with Gagner, well, if that's the case we can't win with Hopkins either.
It's more that we can't win with BOTH, not that we can't win with one or with the other.

The problem is that right NOW they're TOO similar in that they can't win a draw and they're not the best defensively.

The question is, if you had to pick one, who do you go with? I think the majority would probably think RNH has a higher ceiling.

Mentallydull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:34 PM
  #73
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
RNH's skating was impeccable last year but he does seem like he's lost a stride or two this year.
RNHs skating isn't impeccable. He's pretty quick and had a decent stride. Hall and Paajarvi are great skaters. When watching them skate and watching Hopkins skate, there's a pretty noticeable difference if you ask me.

When I see RNH skate, I see: not much power but a nice fluid motion.

Mr Forever is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:36 PM
  #74
Mentallydull
Registered User
 
Mentallydull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oil Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
RNHs skating isn't impeccable. He's pretty quick and had a decent stride. Hall and Paajarvi are great skaters. When watching them skate and watching Hopkins skate, there's a pretty noticeable difference if you ask me.

When I see RNH skate, I see: not much power but a nice fluid motion.
I'm not meaning to pick on you but I just see points in your posts that I'd like to counter

To me I see Paajarvi and Hall as faster skaters for sure, I think RNH is waaaaaaaaay more agile on his skates though.

Mentallydull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2013, 04:37 PM
  #75
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
It's more that we can't win with BOTH, not that we can't win with one or with the other.

The problem is that right NOW they're TOO similar in that they can't win a draw and they're not the best defensively.

The question is, if you had to pick one, who do you go with? I think the majority would probably think RNH has a higher ceiling.
In all honesty, if we keep RNH I still think we're lacking a true first line center. Everyone admits RNH has these weaknesses, so he can't truly be a top line centre can he? Are we going to pay him like one?

I still think we can have both. I think the job you guys all want the 2C to do should be left to the 3C.

Mr Forever is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.