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Old
03-12-2013, 04:37 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
You want your first line center to have those weaknesses? Okay congrats. Good point.
Did you miss the part where RNH is still only 19 years old? If he hasnt improved on his weaknesses after 6 seasons like Gagner hasnt then I will be disappointed. Ideally RNH would be getting sheltered minutes like Gagner has for his first 6 seasons. The problem is that Gagner still needs major sheltering himself and since RNH is a better 2 way player at 19 years old he gets the tougher matchups.

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03-12-2013, 04:37 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
RNHs skating isn't impeccable. He's pretty quick and had a decent stride. Hall and Paajarvi are great skaters. When watching them skate and watching Hopkins skate, there's a pretty noticeable difference if you ask me.

When I see RNH skate, I see: not much power but a nice fluid motion.
Taylor Hall and MPS are faster skaters than RNH; they aren't nearly better than him.

The only players as good on their edges as RNH, that I can think of off the top of my head, are Crosby and Datsyuk.

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03-12-2013, 04:38 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
RNHs skating isn't impeccable. He's pretty quick and had a decent stride. Hall and Paajarvi are great skaters. When watching them skate and watching Hopkins skate, there's a pretty noticeable difference if you ask me.

When I see RNH skate, I see: not much power but a nice fluid motion.
You're putting too much emphasis on speed and power though. RNH's stride and motion were phenomenal last year and he could turn opposing players inside out in a very small space with his skating. I've only seen him make those types of moves on maybe a couple of occasions this year - he did it once in the last game when the Oilers were on the powerplay.

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03-12-2013, 04:39 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Taylor Hall and MPS are faster skaters than RNH they aren't nearly better than him.

The only players as good on their edges as RNH, that I can think of off the top of my head, are Crosby and Datsyuk.
There's more to skating than being good on your edges. Hall and Paajarvi are powerful skaters, with strong knee drive, something I don't see RNH ever having.

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03-12-2013, 04:39 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
I'm not meaning to pick on you but I just see points in your posts that I'd like to counter

To me I see Paajarvi and Hall as faster skaters for sure, I think RNH is waaaaaaaaay more agile on his skates though.
A healthy Hopkins could skate and dangle circles around Hall and Paajarvi in a game of keep away.

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03-12-2013, 04:40 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
There's more to skating than being good on your edges. Hall and Paajarvi are powerful skaters, with strong knee drive, something I don't see RNH ever having.
Good thing he is playing hockey then and not a professional speed skater.

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03-12-2013, 04:41 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Good thing he is playing hockey then and not a professional speed skater.

Do you not think one needs to have strong knee drive and a strong stride to be a good skater? I didn't realize this was only the case in speed skating.

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03-12-2013, 04:42 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
A healthy Hopkins could skate and dangle circles around Hall and Paajarvi in a game of keep away.
Unfortunately the NHL isn't a game of keep away.

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03-12-2013, 04:43 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
In all honesty, if we keep RNH I still think we're lacking a true first line center. Everyone admits RNH has these weaknesses, so he can't truly be a top line centre can he? Are we going to pay him like one?

I still think we can have both. I think the job you guys all want the 2C to do should be left to the 3C.
I agree that if we keep RNH we're lacking a true #1 C... at least for right now. I don't think he's ready to take the load but he is 19 after all. A couple seasons and he could be there or, at worst, a solid #2 C - essentially where Gagner's sitting right now after 6 seasons.

The #3C can't win faceoffs for both of our top lines in the offensive zone and they can't play somewhat defensively reliable hockey for our top 2 centers either. I don't expect our top 2 C's to shutdown opposing team's top lines but they NEED to be better than what Gagner is. At the very LEAST, one of the 2 C's in our top 2 need to be better.

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03-12-2013, 04:44 PM
  #85
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It's mind boggling the guy who defends Gagner, is about to throw in the towel with RNH.

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03-12-2013, 04:45 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
A healthy Hopkins could skate and dangle circles around Hall and Paajarvi in a game of keep away.
Oh I agree 100%. I think in terms of sheer speed that Hall and Paajarvi blow the doors off anybody on this team (haven't seen enough of Yakupov to judge his speed) but in terms of mobility and agility on the skates, there's nobody on this team even close to RNH.

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03-12-2013, 04:46 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
There's more to skating than being good on your edges. Hall and Paajarvi are powerful skaters, with strong knee drive, something I don't see RNH ever having.
The ability to turn on a dime is far more important than "being a powerful skater."

Just ask this guy:



People compared RNH to Gretzky largely because they skate so similarly to one another.

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03-12-2013, 04:47 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
It's mind boggling the guy who defends Gagner, is about to throw in the towel with RNH.
Oh my god

It's mind boggling the amount of people who don't accept RNH has these weaknesses in his game, as they condemn Gagner for having them.

It's not giving up on RNH. it's just not buying into the hype.

All I'm doing is taking the arguments I've seen from the majority of this board as to why we can't win with Gagner, and challenging how we can win with Hopkins if he has these issues?

What do we expect some wizard 2C to play all D zone situations, take draws and be a physical presence for him? Really? Doesn't sound like a playoff player to me.

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03-12-2013, 04:48 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
The ability to turn on a dime is far more important than "being a powerful skater."

Just ask this guy:



People compared RNH to Gretzky largely because they skate so similarly to one another.
Please, please begging you. For the sake of the rest of us Oilers fans, never compare RNH to Gretzky. It makes us look so bad.

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03-12-2013, 04:50 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
I agree that if we keep RNH we're lacking a true #1 C... at least for right now. I don't think he's ready to take the load but he is 19 after all. A couple seasons and he could be there or, at worst, a solid #2 C - essentially where Gagner's sitting right now after 6 seasons.

The #3C can't win faceoffs for both of our top lines in the offensive zone and they can't play somewhat defensively reliable hockey for our top 2 centers either. I don't expect our top 2 C's to shutdown opposing team's top lines but they NEED to be better than what Gagner is. At the very LEAST, one of the 2 C's in our top 2 need to be better.
Aren't Gagners FO numbers around 45+ now?

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03-12-2013, 04:50 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Obviously he's better than Gagner, all I'm saying is he has the same weaknesses and its just a matter of time before the first overall pick tag wears off and we realize it.

People saying we can't win with Gagner, well, if that's the case we can't win with Hopkins either.
Haha... beyond laughable. Nuge is a skinny kid. Call me crazy but I'm thinkin with his frame and any kind of decent weight program he will be playing at 195 within a few seasons. That added strength will make him "THE MAN NUGE"!!! The most dominating hockey force know to man!! Book it.

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03-12-2013, 04:51 PM
  #92
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So this went out of hand quickly...

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03-12-2013, 04:51 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Oh my god

It's mind boggling the amount of people who don't accept RNH has these weaknesses in his game, as they condemn Gagner for having them.

It's not giving up on RNH. it's just not buying into the hype.

All I'm doing is taking the arguments I've seen from the majority of this board as to why we can't win with Gagner, and challenging how we can win with Hopkins if he has these issues?

What do we expect some wizard 2C to play all D zone situations, take draws and be a physical presence for him? Really? Doesn't sound like a playoff player to me.
I guess you just assume that Hopkins wont be able to improve his weakness after 6 seasons just like Gagner cant then. No need to slag the Oilers most valuable young player in an attempt to prop up Gagner.

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03-12-2013, 04:52 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Oh my god

It's mind boggling the amount of people who don't accept RNH has these weaknesses in his game, as they condemn Gagner for having them.

It's not giving up on RNH. it's just not buying into the hype.

All I'm doing is taking the arguments I've seen from the majority of this board as to why we can't win with Gagner, and challenging how we can win with Hopkins if he has these issues?

What do we expect some wizard 2C to play all D zone situations, take draws and be a physical presence for him? Really? Doesn't sound like a playoff player to me.
I'd expect a #2C that can win faceoffs for us so we at least have 3 lines that can do it, as well as someone we can plug into our PP that isn't totally offensively inept.

Right now we have 2 lines that can't win faceoffs and we have to use Horcoff or Belanger on our top 2 PP units if we want to keep the puck in their end.

It's not completely removing the problem, it's minimizing it to one line.

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03-12-2013, 04:52 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Please, please begging you. For the sake of the rest of us Oilers fans, never compare RNH to Gretzky. It makes us look so bad.
Sigh ...

The fact that they have nearly identical skating strides does not mean RNH is going to be anywhere close to as good a player as Gretzky was.

Honestly, you should spend less time on the main board you appear to have adopted its mentality.

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03-12-2013, 04:53 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by OiledUp View Post
So this went out of hand quickly...
That's what happens when somebody dates to question one of Hall, RNH or Eberle.

I've been condemned for pointing out weaknesses in all three this year.

Somebody pm'd me and said I should stop posting because I figured a trade around Eberle and Simmonds and Couturier would help the Oilers.

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03-12-2013, 05:06 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Aren't Gagners FO numbers around 45+ now?
so no improvement from past seasons then?

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03-12-2013, 05:22 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
In all honesty, if we keep RNH I still think we're lacking a true first line center. Everyone admits RNH has these weaknesses, so he can't truly be a top line centre can he? Are we going to pay him like one?
Wait... what?

That's your definition of a first line centre?

I think that's the problem - your definition of what a first line centre, is probably not what most people think a first line centre is. Most people don't think a first line centre is defined by skating abilities or lackthereof, but the ability to put up points, play against the best opposition, consistency etc.

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03-12-2013, 05:29 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
I guess you just assume that Hopkins wont be able to improve his weakness after 6 seasons just like Gagner cant then. No need to slag the Oilers most valuable young player in an attempt to prop up Gagner.
This is exactly it.

And I'm a Gagner supporter.

God, if you claim to give some time, give it to Nuge as well. Don't just say "I'm not buying into the hype"

Sure you weren't. I mean I bet you were last season, when he was producing.

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03-12-2013, 06:20 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Aren't Gagners FO numbers around 45+ now?
41%! he has 8 games with 50% and over. Remember a dallas game when he had 57% and i thought wow, took then a look at belanger that game and he had 77%.

He hasnt developed his earlier flaws such as Fo an hes get outmuscled most of his strides. Hes still an under average skater, about harski speed.

To compensate all that who makes him a constant - player, -5 so far, he had to provide monster numbers in points, to me its not enough to make pp points to be a 2 c in a contending team.

11 p ES with 6g(1 emty net, and 1 fluke g) and 6 a(5 2 ass) isnt impressive in 25 gp. His line and 3/4 th has been outshot big time, so there are no room for unluck in those stats.

I agree that we cant trade away him if not another 2 C coming back, but those who want to sign Gagner for 5-7 years at 5.5 doesnt think clear or want to be a middle team in the Nhl and if reach the play offs, go out in the first round.

Gags is the type who doesnt run the show out there and he arent a gamechanger like hall and hemsky, he is a great compliment player who has his prime in pp and in lose played games with a lot of open ice. He has big problems in tight games when he has to wrestling around the boards, Thats whats playoffs looks like, less room and more physical.

People who compares Rnh with Gags must suffer from a concussion!
19 year kid with a stellar rookie season behind him, playing his 2 season.
Gagner is on his 6th season 24 years old in august, hasnt improved enough since his rookie season. People who has doubts about Rnh, come back after his 4th seasons if you still want to compare them

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