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Carlyle is stubborn as Burke

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Old
03-10-2013, 04:21 PM
  #126
dimi78
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I only had one issue with Carlyle and it's his in game adjustment's when the team is trailing that there wasn't any. Last night was the 1st he did it and the team responded.

When your trailing offense from the back end is important, your the one who's losing in the game and need to push forward... he finally adjusted in using Phaneuf as a shut down guy with Holzer bumped Franson with him instead who's IMO the best passing D men on the Leafs and the forwards suddenly were getting the puck to attack and push back.

I'm all for the shut down pairing of Holzer and Phaneuf but when your losing you need to make adjustments keeping Holzer with Phaneuf in these situations during a game along with Franson with Frasor doesn't help in making a come back....

Having said that Nonis needs to get his horses going Gardiner needs to be up with this team

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03-10-2013, 05:03 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Boucher View Post
What you have to understand is that philosophically, Carlyle does not want to play a LH defender on the right side. You can't argue with facts. Look how much stronger Phanuef looks on the left side.

That means, Komisarek is competing against Holzer, Kostka and Franson.

Liles is competing against Gunnarsson, Phanuef and Fraser.

Komisarek is too slow. Even though Holzer has had a couple of bad games (today in particular), he's much faster than Komisarek, owns much better hands, and brings the same grit and toughness.

Furthermore, Komisarek is going to be bought-out at the end of the year. What's the use in playing/developing him? It makes more sense to integrate Holzer in the team.

As for Liles, well, Gunnarsson is much better.

That's why this team needs to trade for a good RH defender to play big minutes and bump Holzer a bit down in the line-up


As for Orr playing with Kadri - yes that is a stupid decision. But every coach makes stupid decisions...including the best coaches. We just have to live with it until Frattin/Lupul are ready to return.
This fact is too often overlooked. It makes this speculation much easier. Good post.

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Originally Posted by The Apologist View Post
I like to think Likes and Komi could be useful veterans to teams looking to make a run, could bring in some solid picks for us.
Like the Leafs.

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Originally Posted by AuraSphere View Post
Liles deserves to play, they're being dicks. Liles over Holzer any day.
Liles won't come in for Holzer, as explained many times.

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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
i have two issues with randy... his ice time how in th world kadri only played 15 mins is a joke... and his lines sometime ex. kadri with orr
It's not a joke. He's playing sheltered minutes against weaker competition.

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:41 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Of course to many 1 dimensional players is bad, i never said to the contrary.

But as i pointed out previously, we don't have those well rounded players on the roster.

RC has to make do with what he has.

I don't need them to bring to much onto the ice. They serve the role just fine, the one that our coach seems to feel matters.

We have 2 of the type of players your worried about getting 4th line duties.

What skill was not on the ice instead of Orr and Mclem?
Easily could have dressed an extra Defenceman like Liles maybe? Im not a big fan of Liles but he has some offensive flair possibly useful against a team like Pittsburgh... I dont know? I know Liles would have been more useful than either gorilla who went out for a few shifts on a Saturday night. The biggest irony however is how everbody touts these players as "so important" to the team and its success yet when it comes down to the crunch in must win situations...these guys are wearing suits.

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Old
03-12-2013, 08:55 PM
  #129
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I am rarely right ( according to my girlfriend)

so I needed to bump this thread up.

I am so sick of these D

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Old
03-12-2013, 08:58 PM
  #130
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The Leafs are going to slide and Carlyle's stubbornness is the root of the problem. Yeah, we're going to miss the playoffs again, but hopefully this means the wrong men for the job are no longer running the operation.

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Old
03-12-2013, 09:05 PM
  #131
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I don't think even Burke was this stubborn.

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Old
03-12-2013, 09:14 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by RhyZa View Post
I don't think even Burke was this stubborn.
he wasn't.

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Old
03-12-2013, 09:17 PM
  #133
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Time to get Eakins up here !

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Old
03-12-2013, 09:18 PM
  #134
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Randy Carlyle Fails

The Kostka, Fraser and Holzer experiment on defenseis nothing more than Randy Carlyle's way of putting his own stamp on the Leafs. To him, it probably represents some kind of meritocracy because those guys earned it somewhere along the way, which contrasts with Komisarek and Liles, who are overpaid and underachieving veterans, or Jake Gardiner, who is a skilled young player who probably doesn't know the value of hard work or some such nonsense.

In the short term, this all paid off. While the eye test told us that Kostka didn't deserve his Raymond Bourque minutes, that Fraser's +/- masked his horrible footspeed and propensity for being hemmed in and that Holzer shouldn't be a full time Leaf, the Leafs kept winning, so it was all good.

But the fact that he's not changing the roster at all after a lot of cracks have appeared in their game only breeds complacency in Holzer, Fraser and Kostka. Why was Holzer even given the job security of a two year extension midseason when he hasn't even been playing well? Why doesn't Liles see any spot duty from time to time in games that require speed and skill? Why is Jake Gardiner in the minors in an apparent numbers game when you're afraid to lose minor league defensemen?

None of this **** makes any sense. The experiment is over, Randy. You wanted to come in and show the market how smart and clever you can be by winning with names nobody's heard of. We know who they are now, we aren't impressed and your losses are starting to pile up. Now get real and start taking a long look at the garbage you're putting on the ice every night. This garbage keeps up, you're not going to be here very long.

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Old
03-12-2013, 09:48 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
The Kostka, Fraser and Holzer experiment on defenseis nothing more than Randy Carlyle's way of putting his own stamp on the Leafs. To him, it probably represents some kind of meritocracy because those guys earned it somewhere along the way, which contrasts with Komisarek and Liles, who are overpaid and underachieving veterans, or Jake Gardiner, who is a skilled young player who probably doesn't know the value of hard work or some such nonsense.

In the short term, this all paid off. While the eye test told us that Kostka didn't deserve his Raymond Bourque minutes, that Fraser's +/- masked his horrible footspeed and propensity for being hemmed in and that Holzer shouldn't be a full time Leaf, the Leafs kept winning, so it was all good.

But the fact that he's not changing the roster at all after a lot of cracks have appeared in their game only breeds complacency in Holzer, Fraser and Kostka. Why was Holzer even given the job security of a two year extension midseason when he hasn't even been playing well? Why doesn't Liles see any spot duty from time to time in games that require speed and skill? Why is Jake Gardiner in the minors in an apparent numbers game when you're afraid to lose minor league defensemen?

None of this **** makes any sense. The experiment is over, Randy. You wanted to come in and show the market how smart and clever you can be by winning with names nobody's heard of. We know who they are now, we aren't impressed and your losses are starting to pile up. Now get real and start taking a long look at the garbage you're putting on the ice every night. This garbage keeps up, you're not going to be here very long.


Not only that. Why do you keep the same line ups on the first two lines? . Bozak needs to be taken out from 1st line.

Phenuef has been terrible lately, he's been playing bad but tonight was very bad

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Old
03-12-2013, 09:51 PM
  #136
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The continued use of Tyler Bozak as the number one centre becomes more absurd with each passing day.

Watch Bozak play almost the entire two-man advantage while Kadri sat on the bench made me want to break something.

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Old
03-12-2013, 10:26 PM
  #137
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Does Carlyle not understand or just simply not care?

#1 - Jake Gardiner,
Needs no explanation. Wow talk about incomprehensible.

#2 - Korbinian Holzer,
What a terrific 1st pairing dman he is... Yeah nevermind, guys awful. Clearly he deserves 17 games more than Gardiner to solidify himself though.

#3 - The Goons,
Colton Orr played 4:38 in the third period tonight. Grabovski played 3:40. We also know about the Kadri - Orr situation and how Carlyle knowingly made half the ice completely ineffective.

#4 - Grabovski,
Grabovski gets 34.8% offensive zone start percentage to go along with playing the toughest competition on the team. Remember when Grabovski could score 30 goals and carry us some nights? Seems like a distant memory now that he's a shutdown center a la Sutter.

#5 - Bozak,
1st pick to go in the shoot out, gets more icetime than any other forward on the team and has never ONCE been demoted or on a line without JVR/Kessel (PK excluded).

#6 - PHANEUF,
Phaneuf is being used as a defensive dman with zero offensive opportunity excluding the power play (goes without being said), yet has made an entire career off of his offense. Ron Wilson used to successfully hide him defensively (quality of competition) and would give him a 49.4% offensive zone start percentage as oppose to the 39.2% Randy gives him. You can talk about him evolving as a player and all that stuff, but could you imagine if Phaneuf was being hidden a la Franson?

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Old
03-12-2013, 10:26 PM
  #138
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Yeah bud, I'm sure he couldn't care less.....

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Old
03-12-2013, 10:32 PM
  #139
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2 simple outcomes

1. Carlyle maintains his stubborn ways and someone we squeeze into playoffs (Carlyle says he knows what he was doing)

2. Sooner or later we will have Fire Carlyle chants at the ACC and welll....Nonis I do not think will wait as long as Burke did to fire Rotten Ronnie

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03-12-2013, 10:48 PM
  #140
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I would rather play Kostka

Than prove leaf fans right.What right do they have,do they pay for tickets? Goodbye Nonnis and Carlyle,you have already screwed up.Do you think we care ,just another loser.Welcome to pro sports,Burke was stubborn, Burke was fired.Play Kostka,go ahead,top 10 pick.

Oh yeah, Nonnis may trade it for Luongo, doh...


Last edited by darrylsittler27: 03-12-2013 at 10:55 PM.
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Old
03-12-2013, 10:54 PM
  #141
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I'm so frustrated at this deliberate stupidity, the whole strategy to stockpile useless players that are put in the way of young players (who are already better) from succeeding.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:00 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I'm so frustrated at this deliberate stupidity, the whole strategy to stockpile useless players that are put in the way of young players (who are already better) from succeeding.
I guess the new TOUGH wont be pushed around Leafs are getting tiresome to some. Yeah they will win most of their fights but will lose most of their hockey games. You need skill to win in the NHL boys. Not goons or tough guys. This is not 1978. Old school crap....is for losers.

No excuse for not using guys like Kadri more...not playing Gardiner or Liles over AHL plugs and icing McLaren and Orr far far too much. Even idiots can see this..why cant a saavy coach like the Cup Ring holder?

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03-13-2013, 01:30 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
I guess the new TOUGH wont be pushed around Leafs are getting tiresome to some. Yeah they will win most of their fights but will lose most of their hockey games. You need skill to win in the NHL boys. Not goons or tough guys. This is not 1978. Old school crap....is for losers.

No excuse for not using guys like Kadri more...not playing Gardiner or Liles over AHL plugs and icing McLaren and Orr far far too much. Even idiots can see this..why cant a saavy coach like the Cup Ring holder?
They are not mutually exclusive. You can have both. You can have toughness and finess. I don't see why you need to Kostka, he's not tough at all. Gardiner or Liles gives you some finess.

The 4th line is a good line but you don't have to play them the amount you do. Maclaren / Orr doesn't need to dress every game, only games where we have tough opponents.

The resources are poorly managed in my opinion.

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Old
03-13-2013, 02:35 PM
  #144
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You know Carlyle can spit out instructions, create matchups and reorganize lineups until his face goes red, at some point the players have to go out there and play.

Is it stubbornness? Probably to a degree. Is it underperformance by some players lately, also to a degree.

The only aspect that truly confuses me is the Leafs propensity to exclude puck moving defensemen when it is clearly the issue that is separating this team from previous segments in the year.

The last 5 games or so the Leafs seem to be lost in defensive puck mobility options, making unnecessary stretch passes to go for icing, turnovers and stalls in the drive forward. I think they need to give Liles a fair shake. But I also think, you can keep swapping players all you like, but at some point, the onus falls on players to start playing the way they can.

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03-13-2013, 03:03 PM
  #145
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Until he gets enough losses then he will resist making changes. 3 in a row - he should be getting close to making a change

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Old
03-13-2013, 03:16 PM
  #146
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Rome wasn't built in a day.

Carlyle unfortunately inherited a roster on talent that finished 5th from the bottom last year and bottom 5 in two of the past three seasons.

He isn't a miracle worker, but doing the best he can with what he has been given. We have to give Nonis some time to get him some better players to work with.

Outside of Gardiner in the AHL, there really isn't any internal help on the way any time soon that can make any difference today, excluding the return of Lupul from IR.

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03-13-2013, 03:24 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I'm so frustrated at this deliberate stupidity, the whole strategy to stockpile useless players that are put in the way of young players (who are already better) from succeeding.
Plan on eating some crow if this strategy pays off? Let's wait until the deadline passes before we pass judgement on how assets are being managed.

We all want Gards in the lineup but until recently the team has been solid.

Can't blame the Leafs for trying to get something for their depth especially given that this is a short season and there weren't all that high expectations going into the year this year.

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03-13-2013, 03:50 PM
  #148
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I wish there was a stat for chances created by the other team due to bad line changes. Carlisle's obession with line changes drives me crazy and other teams are beginning to take advantage of that by throwing the puck up the ice on the opposite side from the benches.

You can see players always looking to the benches to see if they are suppose to come on or off. To be honest, I am surprised the Leafs don't take more "too many men on the ice" penalities.

I'll give Carlisle credit for the positive changes he has made...but I'm still firmly in the Dallas Eakins camp. The fact that he pretty much gave up on Lupul in the past scares me a bit (especially when watching how the Gardiner saga is playing out).

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Old
03-13-2013, 03:59 PM
  #149
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To be fair, Komi hasn't been able to do anything right for a few years. Correct me if i'm wront but I believe they are not playing him so he won't be injured and they can buy him out

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03-13-2013, 04:04 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
#1 - Jake Gardiner,
Needs no explanation. Wow talk about incomprehensible.

#2 - Korbinian Holzer,
What a terrific 1st pairing dman he is... Yeah nevermind, guys awful. Clearly he deserves 17 games more than Gardiner to solidify himself though.

#3 - The Goons,
Colton Orr played 4:38 in the third period tonight. Grabovski played 3:40. We also know about the Kadri - Orr situation and how Carlyle knowingly made half the ice completely ineffective.

#4 - Grabovski,
Grabovski gets 34.8% offensive zone start percentage to go along with playing the toughest competition on the team. Remember when Grabovski could score 30 goals and carry us some nights? Seems like a distant memory now that he's a shutdown center a la Sutter.

#5 - Bozak,
1st pick to go in the shoot out, gets more icetime than any other forward on the team and has never ONCE been demoted or on a line without JVR/Kessel (PK excluded).

#6 - PHANEUF,
Phaneuf is being used as a defensive dman with zero offensive opportunity excluding the power play (goes without being said), yet has made an entire career off of his offense. Ron Wilson used to successfully hide him defensively (quality of competition) and would give him a 49.4% offensive zone start percentage as oppose to the 39.2% Randy gives him. You can talk about him evolving as a player and all that stuff, but could you imagine if Phaneuf was being hidden a la Franson?
If only there was a way to sit down Carlyle and Show him this...

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