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The Rangers lack of depth

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:16 AM
  #1
JeffMangum
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The Rangers lack of depth

Everyone has been 'looking' for the source of the problem to this rocky start of a season.

One of the main problems thus far is the utter lack of scoring prowess from the bottom 6.

Pyatt: 4 goals, 1 goal in the last 21
Boyle: 1 goal
Halpern: 0 goals
Powe: 0 goals
Haley/Asham/Bickel/Mashinter: 1 goal combined
Miller: 2 goals, coming in 1 game.

This team won't be going anywhere relying on 6 players (Hagelin, Callahan, Richards, Nash, Stepan, Gaborik). The names are good ones, but the Rangers MUST get some semblance of offensive contribution from their bottom 6.

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03-13-2013, 12:18 AM
  #2
Silence Of The Plams
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Secondary scoring. NEED IT. We need some production from everyone, not just guys named Nash and Hagelin and Callahan.

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03-13-2013, 12:20 AM
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Agreed.

I like Pyatt, he had a good start to the season but has been cold. I think he is a good fit for the bottom 6 though.

Miller belongs in the AHL. He has shown promise but hasn't done much.

Boyle is Boyle. He is great for Faceoffs and PK but has become even worse offensively than he was last season. He can't seem to generate anything offensively and brings down others on his line.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:21 AM
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The number one collective concern from the Nash trade is a reality.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:22 AM
  #5
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We pretty much realized but pushed it away. Our replacements haven't been up to par to our previous players.

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03-13-2013, 12:22 AM
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ImIdaho
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I do agree with you with regards to the bottom 6, but why are you including Gaborik as someone who has been completely reliable?

If Gaborik brought at least 50% of the passion he did last season, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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03-13-2013, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
The number one collective concern from the Nash trade is a reality.
We weren't going to win the cup with Dubi and AA (see last year) the Nash trade is literally the only thing saving this team so far this year.

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03-13-2013, 12:24 AM
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I noticed this the other night, before Boyle scored, that we only had 2 players in the bottom 6 that scored goals (3 if you count Asham). We probably have the worst bottom 6 in the league offensively. I'm sure there are some 4th lines in the league that have better offensive production than our 3rd lines.

Our top players really struggled tonight, and in a situation like that, you'd really like to see the bottom 6, or at least the 3rd line, try to pick up the slack. But our players are not capable of contributing in that manner. They need to pick up someone before the deadline.

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03-13-2013, 12:24 AM
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FWIW, I would have brought back Prust at 2.5m per over anyone on our bottom 6.. Prust at 2.5 is not really overpaid when you think about it.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
We weren't going to win the cup with Dubi and AA (see last year) the Nash trade is literally the only thing saving this team so far this year.

To be fair, that team looks a hell of a lot better than this one at doing it, and came within six W's.

The point is, depth cannot be understated. I love the Nash trade, but you gotta give and take.


Losing Prust was big.

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03-13-2013, 12:25 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
I do agree with you with regards to the bottom 6, but why are you including Gaborik as someone who has been completely reliable?

If Gaborik brought at least 50% of the passion he did last season, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Because, while Gabby has been cold, he still can put it together and have the goals come.

The others have done next to nothing offensively ALL season and don't look like they are going to change.

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03-13-2013, 12:26 AM
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when Pyatt is playing in your top 6... something is wrong.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:28 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
FWIW, I would have brought back Prust at 2.5m per over anyone on our bottom 6.. Prust at 2.5 is not really overpaid when you think about it.
I plead guilty to 100% 20/20 hindsight. I just did not know that Prust would be missed this much. Habs fans were nervously excited about getting him, but they are really happy because he provided them with something that you cannot normally just buy, and filled a huge hole in their team makeup.

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03-13-2013, 12:30 AM
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Offense sucks, defense sucks. Team is not winning a cup anytime soon imo.

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03-13-2013, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
I do agree with you with regards to the bottom 6, but why are you including Gaborik as someone who has been completely reliable?

If Gaborik brought at least 50% of the passion he did last season, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Disagree. Last year, we had Fedotenko/Boyle/Prust actually chipping in every once in a while. Mitchell was a good puck possession player. I like Halpern and Pyatt, but they're both clearly 4th line players at this point in their career, and they don't replace what Fedotenko and Prust brought offensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
FWIW, I would have brought back Prust at 2.5m per over anyone on our bottom 6.. Prust at 2.5 is not really overpaid when you think about it.
Starting to agree with that. Prust is a role player and they can be replaced, but he wasn't replaced. Pyatt is good along the wall and has OK hands in front of the net, but Prust was tougher, faster, and a much more intense and intelligent player. He worked beautifully with Boyle. I really miss him, but mainly because Sather did not replace him.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Riverdale View Post
Because, while Gabby has been cold, he still can put it together and have the goals come.

The others have done next to nothing offensively ALL season and don't look like they are going to change.
Can =/= Does

8 goals in 24 games. 3 coming in one game, so that's 6 games where you can attribute Gaborik being a factor. Clicking at 25%.

It's not only that he isn't spreading out his goal scoring but that speed of his is gone, forget trying to get around 2 players, he now usually gets stopped by one player. And the MOST infuriating thing this season? He's prone to just standing there like a ****ing mope!

I repeat, you have 2011-12 Gaborik, the mood here doesn't get so grim and dire. We have 2 lines that can legitimately score and dominate games.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Disagree. Last year, we had Fedotenko/Boyle/Prust actually chipping in every once in a while. Mitchell was a good puck possession player. I like Halpern and Pyatt, but they're both clearly 4th line players at this point in their career, and they don't replace what Fedotenko and Prust brought offensively.
Add in Dubinsky and Anisimov. All those players don't even stack up to the way Nash dominates with the puck. Neither of those players could get by 4 players, still maintain the puck and create scoring chances like Nash does.

Nash has been carrying the offensive side for this team. So, what the **** is Gaborik's excuse?

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03-13-2013, 12:37 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
Can =/= Does

8 goals in 24 games. 3 coming in one game, so that's 6 games where you can attribute Gaborik being a factor. Clicking at 25%.

It's not only that he isn't spreading out his goal scoring but that speed of his is gone, forget trying to get around 2 players, he now usually gets stopped by one player. And the MOST infuriating thing this season? He's prone to just standing there like a ****ing mope!

I repeat, you have 2011-12 Gaborik, the mood here doesn't get so grim and dire. We have 2 lines that can legitimately score and dominate games.
I'd love to see the Gaborik from last year. And he DOES need to step it up. But more concerning than Gaborik's lack of production is ZERO production from others. ehhh

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:38 AM
  #19
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I think we have depth. It's just everybody is out of position. Miller has been a good 3rd line center. The problem is, he's inexplicably playing the wing lately. Put him back at center, move Cally to the 3rd line (where he'd be overqualified, but that's a good thing), and then our three really good right wings, are playing right wing on three different lines. Holy ****, what a concept.

The problem with jamming (lulz) our three best right wings into the top 6 is that gives us rolling two good lines as our best case scenario. Spread them out, and you're rolling three good lines more consistently. How the finesse playing Gaborik became the guy on the 3rd line, is anybodies guess. Tortorella isn't very bright.

I'd bring Kreider up tomorrow, and put him on the 3rd line with Miller/Callahan. I'm in the minority, but I don't think Kreider looked like he didn't belong. I thought he was taking the body his last couple games and getting benched for other players mistakes. There'd be growing pains, but there'd be a much higher upside, and the worse case scenario is having a 30 goal scorer there.

The 4th line should be Boyle/Halpern/Powe. A very good 4th line, I might add. Guys like Asham, Haley waiting to get in. Ferriero, who played better than most of our normal bottom 6 waiting the level below. That's pretty good depth.

That leaves Pyatt playing the Top 6 (I'd put him on the 2nd line with Richards/Gabby, with him doing the dirty work those two *******s won't do), which isn't perfect, but it'll do. If Richards/Gaborik can't put up points with a guy who retrieves the puck from the boards at a really efficient rate, we're not going anywhere, anyway.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:39 AM
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While I don't think we can realistically bring Artie or Dubi back, as much as this team needs a Dubinsky, there has to be someone out there we can acquire who can bring that sort of Crash-bang offense, forecheck, and defense. 35-40 point type player for the third line


Edit: can that be Kreider? Please?

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:41 AM
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JeffMangum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
Add in Dubinsky and Anisimov. All those players don't even stack up to the way Nash dominates with the puck. Neither of those players could get by 4 players, still maintain the puck and create scoring chances like Nash does.

Nash has been carrying the offensive side for this team. So, what the **** is Gaborik's excuse?
He's not Nash? He had offseason surgery?

Nash is but one player. He's not a Mario Lemieux level player, either. He's not going to carry the team every single game. That's where depth comes in. Last year, when Gaborik/Richards struggled to score, the Rangers might have been able to get a goal from their bottom-9. This year, if one of those 6 players isn't on the scoresheet, they haven't won.

Yes, Gaborik has not been good - and that's where the lack of depth hurts this team. Frankly, even if he was scoring a little more, I still don't think it's good for a team to rely completely on their top-6. There needs to be a semblance of contribution from their bottom-6, and they're not getting anything from these players.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:53 AM
  #22
ImIdaho
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
He's not Nash? He had offseason surgery?

Nash is but one player. He's not a Mario Lemieux level player, either. He's not going to carry the team every single game. That's where depth comes in. Last year, when Gaborik/Richards struggled to score, the Rangers might have been able to get a goal from their bottom-9. This year, if one of those 6 players isn't on the scoresheet, they haven't won.

Yes, Gaborik has not been good - and that's where the lack of depth hurts this team. Frankly, even if he was scoring a little more, I still don't think it's good for a team to rely completely on their top-6. There needs to be a semblance of contribution from their bottom-6, and they're not getting anything from these players.
This isn't about Nash being an equivalent to Lemieux. The complaint last season was the we didn't have a legitimate second threat on the Rangers, someone who can dictate the game and create scoring chances. Richards and Gaborik were our offensive pinnacle, then taking a nosedive to grinders. We got said player, and said player has been quite an integral part to our team because he's now facing the top pairing defensemen.

Are we really going to imply that the reason Gaborik is a non-factor is because players like Fedotenko, Prust, and even Anisimov are off the team?

Now, I'm not disputing that our bottom 6 has taken a hit, but our top 6 should be lightyears ahead of what it was last season. We should be seeing 2 lines consistently scoring, not 1.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:55 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
Are we really going to imply that the reason Gaborik is a non-factor is because players like Fedotenko, Prust, and even Anisimov are off the team?
I'm not implying that. You said that this wouldn't be a problem if Gaborik were scoring more, which I disagree with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
Now, I'm not disputing that our bottom 6 has taken a hit, but our top 6 should be lightyears ahead of what it was last season. We should be seeing 2 lines consistently scoring, not 1.
That, I don't disagree with. Gaborik needs to pick up his game.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:58 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
I'm not implying that. You said that this wouldn't be a problem if Gaborik were scoring more, which I disagree with.
No, not scoring more. Actually showing some motivation and playing like the offensive threat that he is would do wonders. Taking a shot or two in a game is not what I expect from a player being paid 7.5 million.

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That, I don't disagree with. Gaborik needs to pick up his game.
Bingo.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:00 AM
  #25
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Rick ****ing Nash
Don't you dare, ever change your avatar. I mean it.

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