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The Canucks are in a tailspin

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Old
03-12-2013, 11:23 PM
  #401
Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
I cant kill Gillis with the draft. The Canucks are not getting top ten picks.
He landed Kesler late. Cody and even Grabner were solid picks.
When you draft so low you have to build other ways
Kesler wasn't a Gillis pick. He has been GM since the 08 draft and the only success he has really had is 1 guy in Cody and even that is less than it would have been since the trade.

All in all even from their draft position his 5 drafts are well below average IMO.

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Old
03-12-2013, 11:24 PM
  #402
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The Sedins may have the most points, but Ryan Kesler is the heart and soul of the Vancouver Canucks and he's been mostly damaged goods the last 2 seasons. Also doesn't help that the goalie are playing just average. I really hope Kesler can fully recover and return to that Selke form. He was, and still is my favorite player in the NHL.

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03-12-2013, 11:27 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Gillis didn't draft Kesler or Grabner.

His best draft picks, in order from best to worst, IMO are: Hodgson, Jensen, Corrado, Gaunce, Schroeder, Connauton.
^Those are the players that will most likely have decent roles in the NHL.
so 5 drafts we have a good 2nd line center, a good top 6 winger prospect, a decent defense prospect in Corrado, maybe a top 4 pairing, a 3rd line ceiling with Gaunce, not much with Schroeder from what we have seen so far and a Dman with a big shot but can't play defense enough to ever be a top 4 pairing guy.

pretty weak overall.

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Old
03-12-2013, 11:27 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
That's great but he still has a line of 9-0-2-2 as a top 6 player which by any measurement is under performing.
I agree that he is underperforming, i just feel that many are giving up on him too early and I truly believe he will turn it around

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Old
03-12-2013, 11:29 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
so 5 drafts we have a good 2nd line center, a good top 6 winger prospect, a decent defense prospect in Corrado, maybe a top 4 pairing, a 3rd line ceiling with Gaunce, not much with Schroeder from what we have seen so far and a Dman with a big shot but can't play defense enough to ever be a top 4 pairing guy.

pretty weak overall.
Cody is the first line center for Buffalo.

Vancouver hasn't had many high picks, which by all accounts are much easier to make. But you're right his track record isn't amazing. It certainly isn't awful, though.

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03-12-2013, 11:31 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I agree that he is underperforming, i just feel that many are giving up on him too early and I truly believe he will turn it around
The problem is that Booth is basically a 20 goal guy playing top 6 minutes and isn't creative enough with the puck to be a playmaker or guys around him better.

The fact that the Sedins are not elite or even better than average top line guys now and you can't have 3 of your top 6 guys below average where they should be if you want to win a SC.

Especially when you can't rely on Kesler staying healthy or productive offensively.

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Old
03-12-2013, 11:33 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Lawzy View Post
Cody is the first line center for Buffalo.

Vancouver hasn't had many high picks, which by all accounts are much easier to make. But you're right his track record isn't amazing. It certainly isn't awful, though.
I know he is the 1st line guy there but he is a poor 1st line or good 2nd line center IMO.

Let's put it another way he is closer to the 30th best overall #1 center than the 15th best one right?

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Old
03-12-2013, 11:34 PM
  #408
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So are the leafs, don't worry

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Old
03-12-2013, 11:36 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Lawzy View Post
Cody is the first line center for Buffalo.

Vancouver hasn't had many high picks, which by all accounts are much easier to make. But you're right his track record isn't amazing. It certainly isn't awful, though.
here are Vancouvers last 5 drafts

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/VAN/draft.html

compare them to Detroit's who also picks late

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/DET/draft.html

Detroit has 10 plus guys who might make the NHL and several might be high impact.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:14 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
I know he is the 1st line guy there but he is a poor 1st line or good 2nd line center IMO.

Let's put it another way he is closer to the 30th best overall #1 center than the 15th best one right?
It's irrelevant what you think of his play, he is, by definition, a first line center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
here are Vancouvers last 5 drafts

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/VAN/draft.html

compare them to Detroit's who also picks late

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/DET/draft.html

Detroit has 10 plus guys who might make the NHL and several might be high impact.
It's a little bit unfair to compare us to a drafting powerhouse.

90% of the teams in this league would kill for Detroit's ability to draft.

Hence why I said our drafting history isn't great but it isn't awful.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:40 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
here are Vancouvers last 5 drafts

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/VAN/draft.html

compare them to Detroit's who also picks late

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/DET/draft.html

Detroit has 10 plus guys who might make the NHL and several might be high impact.
What special players do the Wings have from the last 5 drafts? Are you going to tell me Martin Frk, Xavier Oullett and Tomas Tatar are so much better than Gaunce/Schroder/Jensen, ect..?

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:42 AM
  #412
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Considering how bad the rest of the division is, I think they'll be fine.

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Old
03-13-2013, 03:22 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Probably not the brightest idea to use "hey, our second overall and third overall picks turned out well" as proof that a team develops prospects "exceptionally" well.

Not that I have much of an opinion on how good Vancouver actually does do it - I don't know their team well enough to comment on that. But as far as the Sedins go, it's off-base to give credit for that.
Well Burrows was undrafted and Kesler , Edler, Tanev, Sedins, Schnieder, Hansen, Beiksa and Somebody I skipped was developed by the Canucks

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Old
03-13-2013, 03:32 AM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
What special players do the Wings have from the last 5 drafts? Are you going to tell me Martin Frk, Xavier Oullett and Tomas Tatar are so much better than Gaunce/Schroder/Jensen, ect..?
Abdelkader man !!!

The Detroit guy is out to lunch. Detroit's top 6 is weak.

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Old
03-13-2013, 04:14 AM
  #415
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Canucks are acceptionally good at developing. There is no way in hell that Grabs is a marginal winger if he stayed. The Sedins used to be considered 2nd line only and look now
You think AV has no say in Grabner being moved?

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03-13-2013, 04:16 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Well Burrows was undrafted and Kesler , Edler, Tanev, Sedins, Schnieder, Hansen, Beiksa and Somebody I skipped was developed by the Canucks
Tanev was undrafted as well.

And I believe the person you are missing is Mason Raymond.

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Old
03-13-2013, 04:27 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Well Burrows was undrafted and Kesler , Edler, Tanev, Sedins, Schnieder, Hansen, Beiksa and Somebody I skipped was developed by the Canucks
And the bolded is the only one brought in under Gillis and he wasn't even drafted.

Mike Gillis has been terrible at the draft, and this is after criticizing Nonis for his drafting which included Edler, Schneider, Grabner, Bourdon, Raymond, Hansen in just 4 drafts compared to Gillis and his 5 drafts.

Our player development was actually better under Nonis than it has been under Gillis, other than Tanev who else has been brought up? Schroeder LMAO, the Hodgson disaster? lol jensen better be really good or the last 5 years has been a gigantic bust prospect wise for Gillis. Who btw is incredibly overrated.

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Old
03-13-2013, 04:39 AM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
The Canucks are still a good team on paper, not really sure what the problem is. I do believe Gillis is a stubborn man though. He's overplayed his hand on Luongo big time. The asking price, supposedly, was crazy. Luongo could be used to bring in some good talent and really help this team. Still makes no sense to hold onto him IMO. His value cannot go up from here.
I don't know about that. The way he's outplayed Cory this season changed a lot of people's minds about his value going forward on this team. I mean, I don't understand why it was even a question in the first place. You would almost think he wasn't the best goalie who ever put on a Canucks jersey... but people needed convincing, and he's done it yet again.

Looks to me like his trade value has gone up since the beginning of the season, in fact.

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Old
03-13-2013, 05:37 AM
  #419
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This 2-1 shootout win and CBJ clearly shows we are just fine.

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Old
03-13-2013, 05:37 AM
  #420
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I like people criticizing MG's drafting really don't follow the prospects, and have there standards way too high.

Picking from 25th - 30th and trading most of your picks away won't get you a load of A prospects.

But we do have some promising players in the pipeline, just not alot of top tier prospects, but that's not MG's fault.

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Old
03-13-2013, 05:38 AM
  #421
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Originally Posted by The Kassian Train View Post
You think AV has no say in Grabner being moved?
I never gave it much thought. He gave Kyle Wellfed a good shot.

I like AV but if he had lots of say in running these guys out of town then let the Lindy Ruff era begin.

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Old
03-13-2013, 05:44 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
And the bolded is the only one brought in under Gillis and he wasn't even drafted.

Mike Gillis has been terrible at the draft, and this is after criticizing Nonis for his drafting which included Edler, Schneider, Grabner, Bourdon, Raymond, Hansen in just 4 drafts compared to Gillis and his 5 drafts.

Our player development was actually better under Nonis than it has been under Gillis, other than Tanev who else has been brought up? Schroeder LMAO, the Hodgson disaster? lol jensen better be really good or the last 5 years has been a gigantic bust prospect wise for Gillis. Who btw is incredibly overrated.
Agree on all points.

I'll give his draftees a chance buy if Mike Milbury....er Mike Gillis runs any more developed prospects out of town then he must go.

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Old
03-13-2013, 06:37 AM
  #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
And the bolded is the only one brought in under Gillis and he wasn't even drafted.

Mike Gillis has been terrible at the draft, and this is after criticizing Nonis for his drafting which included Edler, Schneider, Grabner, Bourdon, Raymond, Hansen in just 4 drafts compared to Gillis and his 5 drafts.

Our player development was actually better under Nonis than it has been under Gillis
, other than Tanev who else has been brought up? Schroeder LMAO, the Hodgson disaster? lol jensen better be really good or the last 5 years has been a gigantic bust prospect wise for Gillis. Who btw is incredibly overrated.
Because the team has been better now than under Nonis, not that hard to figure. Drafting well isn't that hard, really. Free agent signing is and Gillies has been good at that.

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Old
03-13-2013, 06:51 AM
  #424
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Originally Posted by Flowzak View Post
The Sedins may have the most points, but Ryan Kesler is the heart and soul of the Vancouver Canucks and he's been mostly damaged goods the last 2 seasons. Also doesn't help that the goalie are playing just average. I really hope Kesler can fully recover and return to that Selke form. He was, and still is my favorite player in the NHL.
Do you realize that in 11 games Luongo has allowed more than two goals only 3 times and more than three goals only once? The guys has given his team a chance to win almost every time out, to call his play average is not even close to true (despite his only pretty good save% of 0.917 - one bad game skews this big time).

Schneider in 14 games has allowed more than two goals 7 times and more than three goals 4 times...he's not doing quite as well right now despite being okay statistically (0.910 save%).

There are problems with the team but goaltending is the reason the team is winning their division. Individual performances by the goalies and the Sedins+Burrows are basically carrying the team right now with absolutely brutal coaching decisions and some pretty low effort levels holding us back.

AV needs to go fast but I've been banging that drum for three years.

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:19 AM
  #425
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Originally Posted by Flowzak View Post
The Sedins may have the most points, but Ryan Kesler is the heart and soul of the Vancouver Canucks and he's been mostly damaged goods the last 2 seasons. Also doesn't help that the goalie are playing just average. I really hope Kesler can fully recover and return to that Selke form. He was, and still is my favorite player in the NHL.
No. Henrik is the heart and soul of this team. Kesler is our only consistent source for secondary scoring though and without him, we are struggling to put up more than 2 goals per game

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