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Best Cup Team of the past 10 years #2

View Poll Results: Which is the best team?
2003 Devils 15 11.19%
2004 Lightning 1 0.75%
2006 Hurricanes 1 0.75%
2007 Ducks 48 35.82%
2008 Red Wings 19 14.18%
2009 Penguins 6 4.48%
2010 Blackhawks 35 26.12%
2011 Bruins 6 4.48%
2012 Kings 3 2.24%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:26 PM
  #1
Leafs21
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Best Cup Team of the past 10 years #2

1. 2002 Detroit Red Wings (47.95%)

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03-12-2013, 04:36 AM
  #2
InjuredChoker
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Voted 10 Blackhawks. They were so damn deep. 07 Ducks are close, though as are Devils.

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03-12-2013, 05:57 AM
  #3
g3ryder
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Went with the Ducks just on how perfectly built that team was. The top-notch scoring line (Kunitz, McDonald, Selanne), the youngsters line (Penner, Getzlaf, Perry), the dominant checking line (Moen, Pahlsson, Niedermayer), the tough-in-your-face fourth line (May, Marchant, Thornton), the 2 Hall of Fame d-men (Pronger, Niedermayer), 2 solid as they come vets (Beauchemin and O'Donnell), and the former Conn Smythe Winner (Giguere). This team seemed to have everything, and their play on the ice reflected that, culminating with their dominance over the Senators in the Finals.

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03-12-2013, 06:01 AM
  #4
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Wow 03 Devils getting no respect

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03-12-2013, 06:28 AM
  #5
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03 devils.... as strong as the Ducks were can they really compete with a quasi-dynasty pre-salary cap era team?

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03-12-2013, 07:35 AM
  #6
416Leafer
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I voted Ducks over Blackhawks. Simply because their D/Goaltending both beat Chicago's. Chicago was ridiculously deep up front though. Toews, Kane, Hossa, Byfgulien, Ladd, Versteeg, Sharp, etc.

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03-12-2013, 11:19 AM
  #7
tsujimoto74
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Hawks. Team was loaded and deep.

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03-12-2013, 01:54 PM
  #8
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This is so depressing as a Canucks fan. In the past three years (01-02 and 06-07 as well) the team that eliminated the Canucks won the cup.

I'm gonna pick the Ducks.

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03-12-2013, 02:27 PM
  #9
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The team that also won the President's Trophy.

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03-12-2013, 02:47 PM
  #10
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2003 Devils, 2007 Ducks, and 2008 Red Wings are all close for 2nd.

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03-12-2013, 07:58 PM
  #11
Hammer Time
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2008 Wings narrowly over Ducks, Hawks, and Devils.

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Lidström all in their prime. 2nd best LW, 2nd best C, and best D in the league.
Lots of secondary scoring: Franzen, Holmstrom, Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson, Hudler
Competent goaltending from Osgood, with Hasek also on the team.
Babcock as coach.

Those Wings were not only winning games but dominating teams. Their puck possession style meant they'd just get chance after chance after chance against you, and it would take a great defensive and goaltending performance to beat that team. The Penguins had won 7 games in a row to start the playoffs, finished 12-2 against the East. Then they ran into the Wings, and got their butts handed to them 3-0, 4-0 to start the series.

Even when the Wings lost, they usually kept it close ...

Multiple-goal losses, regular season and playoffs
7 - 08 Wings
12 - 07 Ducks
13 - 03 Devils
14 - 10 Hawks

This is what sets the Wings above the other great teams of the era, IMO. They never took a night off. You could beat them, but they weren't going down without a fight.

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03-12-2013, 09:02 PM
  #12
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Ducks, then Blackhawks or Wings.

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03-13-2013, 12:19 AM
  #13
DuckJet
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No homer, but 07 Ducks.

Well I tried to go no homer.

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03-13-2013, 01:18 AM
  #14
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2010 Hawks

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:23 AM
  #15
The Red Line
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
2008 Wings narrowly over Ducks, Hawks, and Devils.

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Lidström all in their prime. 2nd best LW, 2nd best C, and best D in the league.
Lots of secondary scoring: Franzen, Holmstrom, Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson, Hudler
Competent goaltending from Osgood, with Hasek also on the team.
Babcock as coach.

Those Wings were not only winning games but dominating teams. Their puck possession style meant they'd just get chance after chance after chance against you, and it would take a great defensive and goaltending performance to beat that team. The Penguins had won 7 games in a row to start the playoffs, finished 12-2 against the East. Then they ran into the Wings, and got their butts handed to them 3-0, 4-0 to start the series.

Even when the Wings lost, they usually kept it close ...

Multiple-goal losses, regular season and playoffs
7 - 08 Wings
12 - 07 Ducks
13 - 03 Devils
14 - 10 Hawks

This is what sets the Wings above the other great teams of the era, IMO. They never took a night off. You could beat them, but they weren't going down without a fight.
This post needs more love.

They might not look as good on paper now because a lot of those names are older, but they were pretty much an unstoppable force that season. The defensive play was unreal.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:25 AM
  #16
g3ryder
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Only reason I didn't pick the Red Wings is because I actually think their team the following year (2009) that lost to the Penguins was actually better. It was basically the same team, plus Hossa. The individual numbers they had that year were staggering. I know it doesn't mean much in this thread, but I had a hard time voting for a team that I know was better the following year.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:33 AM
  #17
knivez
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The 2008 Red Wings made the entire league their ***** that year. The only team that would have had a more dominant season+playoffs would have been if the 2011 Canucks won the cup.

The 08 Wings were far and away the class of the NHL.

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03-13-2013, 01:48 AM
  #18
PhillyBluesFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
2008 Wings narrowly over Ducks, Hawks, and Devils.

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Lidström all in their prime. 2nd best LW, 2nd best C, and best D in the league.
Lots of secondary scoring: Franzen, Holmstrom, Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson, Hudler
Competent goaltending from Osgood, with Hasek also on the team.
Babcock as coach.

Those Wings were not only winning games but dominating teams. Their puck possession style meant they'd just get chance after chance after chance against you, and it would take a great defensive and goaltending performance to beat that team. The Penguins had won 7 games in a row to start the playoffs, finished 12-2 against the East. Then they ran into the Wings, and got their butts handed to them 3-0, 4-0 to start the series.

Even when the Wings lost, they usually kept it close ...

Multiple-goal losses, regular season and playoffs
7 - 08 Wings
12 - 07 Ducks
13 - 03 Devils
14 - 10 Hawks

This is what sets the Wings above the other great teams of the era, IMO. They never took a night off. You could beat them, but they weren't going down without a fight.
03 Devils had:
A top 3 Goalie of all time in his prime - Brodeur
3 of the top 10 defensemen in the NHL - Stevens, Rafalski and Niedermeyer
One of the top 5 wingers in the NHL - Elias
One of the best defensive centers of all time - Madden

They had a ridiculous 7 shutouts in the playoffs

I'll take the 03 Devils

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:54 AM
  #19
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Lol at 2010 Chicago having votes. They shouldn't even be in the conversation for another 3-4 polls.

As for the thread, I hate comparing pre and post-lockout teams due to the cap era and rule changes.

2003 Devils are definitely in the conversation for this poll though.

As for the post-lockout winners, 08 Detroit followed by 07 Anaheim.

People fell in love with Anaheim's toughness and style of play which always gets them slightly overrated IMO. Don't get me wrong, they were a great team. They had 2 of the 3 best defenceman in the game, the best checking line in the NHL that season, two solid scoring lines with Selanne/Mac and the kid's line (they were kids though), and a rough and rigid 4th line that was used here and there. Giguere was very solid as well.

But when I compare them to 08 Detroit, it's hard to look past the fact of the 2007 WCF and then see how much better 08 Detroit got.

First let's look at the 2007 series:
Anaheim ends up winning in 6, but this was the only series that you watched and truly thought Anaheim could and probably would lose. Detroit led in the series twice (1-0 and 2-1) and was on the verge of being up 3-2 before the mess of the infamous game 5. Detroit outshot Anaheim that series and the was all without 2 of their top 4 defenceman (Kronwall and Schneider who missed due to injury).

Bounce forward to 08. This was an improved Detroit team in many ways. First look at the defense:

Lidstrom-Rafalski
Kronwall-Stuart
Lilja-Chelios/Lebda

compared to:

Lidstrom-Lilja
Chelios-Markov
Quincey-Lebda

3 of their top 4 defenceman from 08 didn't even play in the 07 WCF.

In addition, 07-08 was the season Datsyuk and Zetterberg really hit their prime. They went from 70 and 80 pt players to both being in the 90pt range while placing 1st and 3rd in Selke voting. In addition, this was the season and postseason that Franzen went from 3rd line checker to scoring machine.

Lastly, they replaced aging soft vets like Lang with bottom 6 grinders Helm and Drake.

Bottom line is 08 Detroit was top to bottom much better than 07 Detroit. They were an unbelievable puck possession team that just smothered opposing teams and wouldn't let them control the game.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:58 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by g3ryder View Post
Only reason I didn't pick the Red Wings is because I actually think their team the following year (2009) that lost to the Penguins was actually better. It was basically the same team, plus Hossa. The individual numbers they had that year were staggering. I know it doesn't mean much in this thread, but I had a hard time voting for a team that I know was better the following year.
On paper they looked better, but in reality they weren't at all. And anybody who watched only a handful of games between the two teams knew that. 09 Detroit still could have won the Cup without injuries, but their team play wasn't as strong as in 08.

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03-13-2013, 02:46 AM
  #21
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09 Pens

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03-13-2013, 04:17 AM
  #22
g3ryder
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
On paper they looked better, but in reality they weren't at all. And anybody who watched only a handful of games between the two teams knew that. 09 Detroit still could have won the Cup without injuries, but their team play wasn't as strong as in 08.
I ask this because I legitimately want to know (not meant to be a sarcastic/rhetorical statement), how were the Red Wings of 08 better than the 09 version?

The 08 team finished with 115 points in the regular season, winning the President's Trophy. They then beat the Preds in 6, the Avs in 4, the Stars in 6, and the Pens in 6. They scored 257 goals, and allowed 184.

The 09 team finished with 112 points in the regular season, third overall in the league. They then beat the Blue Jackets in 4, the Ducks in 7, the Blackhawks in 5, and lost to the Pens in 7 (with a last second save by Fleury). They scored 295 goals, and allowed 244.

I'm looking purely at stats right now, which I understand is a bit of flawed way to do things, but I can't point to a particular game and say look how great they were that year, and then compare that to another year. So looking at the stats, aside from the individual numbers (the 09 team dominates the 08 team), the only stat that stands out in particular is the goals-for vs. goals-against ratio. The 09 team scored 38 more goals than the 08 team, but allowed 60 more, which is a pretty significant increase. One thing I did pick up though is that, league-wide, scoring was up during the 09 year.

In 08, the Wings led the league with 184 goals allowed (1 of 5 with fewer than 200 goals allowed). They were second in the league with 257 scored.

In 09, they were 19th in goals allowed with 244 (only 1 team under 200), and were far and away number one in goals scored with 295 (21 more than #2).

Now while I understand that the 08 team had significantly better defensive numbers, it's hard for me to overlook the 09 team's offensive output. Part of the reason why they allowed so many goals seems to be their ability to score at will, which can make a team relax a bit on the defensive end (see this year's Pens).

At the end of the day, I think both the 08 and the 09 Wings were awesome. I just can't overlook the 09 Wings' sheer offensive dominance (adding Marian Hossa will do that for a team). And when it comes to losing the Cup, everybody knows that injuries really hurt the 09 team, and when it comes to a 7-game series, anything can happen.


Last edited by g3ryder: 03-13-2013 at 11:16 PM.
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Old
03-13-2013, 05:14 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by g3ryder View Post
I ask this because I legitimately want to know (not meant to be a sarcastic/rhetorical statement), how were the Red Wings of 08 better then 09 version?
You pointed out many of the reasons, but to reiterate and add to this:

The 2008 team played a much tighter defensive, team game. Detroit's always been known for their puck possession style since the Russian 5, but the 2008 version is probably the best version I've ever seen as a team. Even the famous 2002 Detroit team didn't compare in terms of puck possession. In fact, 2008 Detroit had a much better shot differential than 2002 Detroit. This reflects the dominant puck control game that the 2008 team displayed.

But back to comparing 2008 vs 2009...

2008 was a significantly better defensive, puck possession team. They also had a better shot differential than 2009 and that reflected this. 2008 also had a much better PK (8th to 23rd ranking), much better goaltending (Osgood and Hasek finished 1st and 4th in GAA among goalies that played at least 25 games vs Conklin and Osgood finishing 17th and 42nd in 2009.)

2008 Detroit did a much better job of limiting chances, stopping chances, and ultimately grinding out low scoring games. 2009 had to rely more on outscoring teams.

2009 without question had more offensive talent with the addition of Hossa, but as pointed out the defensive and puck control game was worse:

2009 was the #1 offensive team, but 21st best defensive team.

2008 was the #3 offensive team, but #1 defensive team.

That's a huge difference in team balance.

In addition, you really get to respect the 2008's offensive game when looking at the defensive game the West was playing. Detroit (ranked 3rd), was the only Western Conference team to finish in the top 8 in the NHL. The West definitely played a tighter, checking game than the East and Detroit was still able to finish 3rd in the NHL. They were by far the #1 offensive and defensive team in the West.

You add on simple facts like 2008 Detroit won more games and had more points and it becomes fairly obvious.

2009 was still a very good team and let's face it - if they were able to remain healthy like the 2008 version, Crosby is likely still searching for his first Cup... But 2008 Detroit was a better, more balanced and more dominant team.

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03-13-2013, 05:45 AM
  #24
g3ryder
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
You pointed out many of the reasons, but to reiterate and add to this:

The 2008 team played a much tighter defensive, team game. Detroit's always been known for their puck possession style since the Russian 5, but the 2008 version is probably the best version I've ever seen as a team. Even the famous 2002 Detroit team didn't compare in terms of puck possession. In fact, 2008 Detroit had a much better shot differential than 2002 Detroit. This reflects the dominant puck control game that the 2008 team displayed.

But back to comparing 2008 vs 2009...

2008 was a significantly better defensive, puck possession team. They also had a better shot differential than 2009 and that reflected this. 2008 also had a much better PK (8th to 23rd ranking), much better goaltending (Osgood and Hasek finished 1st and 4th in GAA among goalies that played at least 25 games vs Conklin and Osgood finishing 17th and 42nd in 2009.)

2008 Detroit did a much better job of limiting chances, stopping chances, and ultimately grinding out low scoring games. 2009 had to rely more on outscoring teams.

2009 without question had more offensive talent with the addition of Hossa, but as pointed out the defensive and puck control game was worse:

2009 was the #1 offensive team, but 21st best defensive team.

2008 was the #3 offensive team, but #1 defensive team.

That's a huge difference in team balance.

In addition, you really get to respect the 2008's offensive game when looking at the defensive game the West was playing. Detroit (ranked 3rd), was the only Western Conference team to finish in the top 8 in the NHL. The West definitely played a tighter, checking game than the East and Detroit was still able to finish 3rd in the NHL. They were by far the #1 offensive and defensive team in the West.

You add on simple facts like 2008 Detroit won more games and had more points and it becomes fairly obvious.

2009 was still a very good team and let's face it - if they were able to remain healthy like the 2008 version, Crosby is likely still searching for his first Cup... But 2008 Detroit was a better, more balanced and more dominant team.
You make several very good points, many of which are hard to argue against. I think one of the things that stands out to me about the 09 Wings is that when a team is that offensively dominant, as they were, it seems like other parts of their game suffer. Not because they can't be good in those other aspects, but because they feel like they can outscore anyone they play against.

The 09 Wings had 11 guys with 40 points or more, 5 20 goal-scorers, 3 50-point defensemen, and a better power-play (than the 08 team) at 24.7%.

And I guess the one thing I just can't get over, regardless of their numbers, is that the 08 and the 09 teams are essentially the same. Except for the fact that the 09 team added Marian Hossa, one of the 15-20 best players of the past 8-10 years.

The lesser defensive numbers and the lower regular season point total are, to me, the reflection of a team so good, and so talented that they "got through" the regular season, with their focus being entirely on the playoffs. That kind of mindset, which happens on occasion with some super teams, causes teams to play at a lower level than they are capable of.

Now while I understand that some of these points are entirely based on opinion, there's a certain something about the 09 team I just can't ignore.

At the end of the day though, it's refreshing to have a debate with somebody who brings facts and good counterpoints. It's refreshing. Much better than some of the crap we get around here. Thanks!

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03-13-2013, 06:05 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by g3ryder View Post
At the end of the day though, it's refreshing to have a debate with somebody who brings facts and good counterpoints. It's refreshing. Much better than some of the crap we get around here. Thanks!
Right back at you. You're probably right about the 09 team coasting a bit. This was a team, especially when Hossa signed, that was favored to win back-to-back Cups. It was literally a Cup or bust scenario. A lot of teams say that, but was it ever more realistic than with that team in recent memory?

In addition, practically everybody on the roster except Hossa and Conklin had just won a Cup. So it is quite possible that the overall team hunger wasn't exactly the same.

But without all of that said, it still comes down to executing vs potential for me, and the 2008 team executed better, both in the regular season and the postseason.

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