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Ducks look to deal Vishnevski after award

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Old
07-28-2006, 09:12 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
Markov should be our main gun at the point anyway ... and we will have Streit as backup.

We will likely lose Souray anyway next summer - while Vishnevski will be RFA.

Vishnevski can play physical defence much better without getting hurt all the time. Usually missing only few games (last season 82 games 196 hits).
Markov also will be a UFA next season

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07-28-2006, 09:13 PM
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would could sign Vishnevski and we dont gotta be under the cap until what oct 4th?

streit's kneee might not be so good who knows he could be gone till xmas ya never know . id just get Vishnevski into the line up and let him take it from there

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07-28-2006, 09:18 PM
  #53
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as much as i would hate to see the komi and markov line broken up... just imagine what a markov/vishnevski duo could do.

if we could get him for say the 3rd pick then we could turn and deal one of other d-man like souray or dandy.

something to think about bob

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07-28-2006, 09:44 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by YOUTH OF HABS View Post
as much as i would hate to see the komi and markov line broken up... just imagine what a markov/vishnevski duo could do.

if we could get him for say the 3rd pick then we could turn and deal one of other d-man like souray or dandy.

something to think about bob

just having Vishnevski out there smoking people would be a great influance for Komo on our blueline . Begin Murray Downey and Vishnevski on the blueline would be on nasty line to play against keep your heads up bigtime

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07-28-2006, 10:09 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Ludo View Post
hahaha...are you serious?

Bouillon? Our quickest and toughest defenseman? He finished 2nd or 3rd in the league in checks....and you'd waive him???

If ANYONE, I'd let go of Rivet...or even Dandy...before Bouillon. Not sure Vishnevski is an upgrade on either though....
Don't get carried away. Bouillon is 6th on the depth chart. Dandenault sucked under Julien, player a lot better under Gainey, played very well in the playoffs. I'm expecting a better season from him.

The leadership, toughness and presence that Rivet brings is 1,000,000 times more valuable than Bouillon.

What I find interesting is even though Bouillon is "2nd or 3rd in the leauge" or whatever in checks, no one gives a ****. He's not intimidating. No one gives a **** if they get hit by Bouillon. Souray and Rivet don't hit as much as Bouillon but I consider them much much tougher and scarier. No need to show some Souray fight clips to prove my point, we've all seen them a million times. **** with the wrong habs player, Souray ****s you up, that simple. Remember a game against the Lightning when Prospal was always trying to run Huet or at least give him snow showers after every whistle. Rivet got fed up one time, just dropped the gloves and gave Prospal a beating, and a Prospal being the little ***** that he is turtled. That is true intimidation, and I'd take that over Bouillon any day of the week, thanks.

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07-28-2006, 10:10 PM
  #56
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^^ Wow, did not realise I swore that much in my last post.

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Old
07-28-2006, 10:38 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Duster View Post
Bouillon is redundant if Vishnevski is acquired, imo. He would provide size, grit and he's a good shot blocker. He is also good in corners and can clear the front of the net. Cheaper and younger too. In terms of offense, both are comparable.
Sheldon Souray in the last 2 seasons

2005-06 Montreal NHL 75 games 12 goals 27 assists 39 points

2003-04 Montreal NHL 63 games 15 goals 20 assists 35 points

vs

Vitaly Vishnevski in the last 2 seasons

2005-06 Anaheim NHL 82 games 1 goals 7 assits 8 points

2003-04 Anaheim NHL 73 games 6 goals 10 assits 16 points

Souray 138 games 27 goals 47 assits for 74 points

Vishnevski 155 games 7 goals 17 assits for 24 points


Not bad for a guy who had personnals problems for the first half of the season...more than 3 times his total points with 17 games under what Vishnevski played

And from TSN scouting reports....

Vitaly Vishnevski

Flaws Tends to wear down over the course of a long season. Doesn't have a lot of offensive upside. Needs to gain the trust of his coaching staff.

So I really don't see how you can compare those guys from a offensive point of view. Vitaly Vishnevski is a much better defensive player but saying that he's comparable to Souray offensively is far from the truth.


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Old
07-28-2006, 10:50 PM
  #58
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There is one thing I hate about most of the hockey forums. It seem that the player from the other team is always better than the guy in our team.

Koivu is not a good 1st line center, Ribeiro is not a good 2nd line center, Markov is not a good no 1 defenseman....If the GM would listen to those boards we would trade the whole team every 2 months.

Hockey is not like NHL 06. You can't change a whole team for fun when you're not sastified with them. Keeping a good chemistry which we had at the end of last year is more important than trying to change all the guys we personally hate

The fact that a player is being a UFA next season is not a good reason to trade him at all cost...

Why would Markov leave the team next year? We are one of the team with the most russian players and prospects, russians in general enjoy Montreal as a hockey city. If we pay him a decent salary, there is no reason for him to leave.

Rivet is without a single doubt staying next year if Koivu is still with us.

For Souray , I would be surprise to see him leaving. Maybe he will want to move closer from his daugther. But at the moment, he seems to be very happy in Montreal, he s a great leader and he's appreciate here, if he can set a better situation with his ex-girlfriend, I don't see why Souray would leave.


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Old
07-28-2006, 10:56 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
Sheldon Souray in the last 2 seasons

2005-06 Montreal NHL 75 games 12 goals 27 assists 39 points

2003-04 Montreal NHL 63 games 15 goals 20 assists 35 points

vs

Vitaly Vishnevski in the last 2 seasons

2005-06 Anaheim NHL 82 games 1 goals 7 assits 8 points

2003-04 Anaheim NHL 73 games 6 goals 10 assits 16 points

Souray 138 games 27 goals 47 assits for 74 points

Vishnevski 155 games 7 goals 17 assits for 24 points


Not bad for a guy who had personnals problems for the first half of the season...more than 3 times his total points with 17 games under what Vishnevski played

And from TSN scouting reports....

Vitaly Vishnevski

Flaws Tends to wear down over the course of a long season. Doesn't have a lot of offensive upside. Needs to gain the trust of his coaching staff.

So I really don't see how you can compare those guys from a offensive point of view. Vitaly Vishnevski is a much better defensive player but saying that he's comparable to Souray offensively is far from the truth.


there is 0 chance Souray gets dealt for Vishnevski. i wouldnt worry about it
Vishnevski tho would be a big addition to our blueline . no he doesnt score but he lays out some really nice open ice hits and adds a ton of toughness not in the fight dept but tuff to play against . we become a nastier team to play against . goood young buddy for Komisarek . if we could get Komo to be like Vishnevski(freight train ) then we'd really be talking


Vishnevski isnt the biggest but he hits as hard as a guy 6'5 240 . if you asked around the leauge alot of guys would tell you that im sure espically the guys he turned black and blue


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Old
07-28-2006, 11:02 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
there is 0 chance souray gets dealt for Vishnevski. i wouldnt worry about it .
I'm just scare of what sometime a few guys can write....There is much more to consider than just a Souray rating = X and Vishnevski rating = Y.

Rivet and Souray did a very nice second defensive line last year. The chemistry between those 2 guys was very high. You can't just put a random guy with a better rating and think that your line will be better in every way.

Hockey is not Baseball, otherwise the NY Rangers would have won the Stanley Cup a few times in the last decade.

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Old
07-28-2006, 11:03 PM
  #61
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Streit and D'agostini for him

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Old
07-28-2006, 11:06 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by felixd View Post
Don't get carried away. Bouillon is 6th on the depth chart.
I can see your point, but after watching 95% of MTL's games last year (as you may have done also) I feel Bouillon brings much more to each match than Rivet or Dandenault (my 2 cents).

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07-28-2006, 11:06 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
Vishnevski tho would be a big addition to our blueline . no he doesnt score but he lays out some really nice open ice hits and adds a ton of toughness not in the fight dept but tuff to play against . we become a nastier team to play against . goood young buddy for komo . if we could get Komo to be like Vishnevski(freight train ) then we'd really be talking
Why would you put two defensive defenseman on your first two defensive line?

Which defensive line was the best last year? It was Markov and Komisarek , two guys who don't have much in common. Markov is a offensive mind defenseman and Komisarek a defensive mind defenseman.

How your first or second line can be great offensively if you don't have a least 1 good offensive defenseman who can do at least a good first pass or be dangerous at the point? You can't just put 2 heavy defensive defenseman and think that everything will go well. Basically you are screwing your offensives lines to improve your defense at the blue line.

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07-28-2006, 11:07 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
Sheldon Souray in the last 2 seasons

2005-06 Montreal NHL 75 games 12 goals 27 assists 39 points

2003-04 Montreal NHL 63 games 15 goals 20 assists 35 points

vs

Vitaly Vishnevski in the last 2 seasons

2005-06 Anaheim NHL 82 games 1 goals 7 assits 8 points

2003-04 Anaheim NHL 73 games 6 goals 10 assits 16 points

Souray 138 games 27 goals 47 assits for 74 points

Vishnevski 155 games 7 goals 17 assits for 24 points


Not bad for a guy who had personnals problems for the first half of the season...more than 3 times his total points with 17 games under what Vishnevski played

And from TSN scouting reports....

Vitaly Vishnevski

Flaws Tends to wear down over the course of a long season. Doesn't have a lot of offensive upside. Needs to gain the trust of his coaching staff.

So I really don't see how you can compare those guys from a offensive point of view. Vitaly Vishnevski is a much better defensive player but saying that he's comparable to Souray offensively is far from the truth.
he was talking about Bouillon, not Souray...

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07-28-2006, 11:08 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
There is one thing I hate about most of the hockey forums. It seem that the player from the other team is always better than the guy in our team.

Koivu is not a good 1st line center, Ribeiro is not a good 2nd line center, Markov is not a good no 1 defenseman....If the GM would listen to those boards we would trade the whole team every 2 months.

Hockey is not like NHL 06. You can't change a whole team for fun when you're not sastified with them. Keeping a good chemistry which we had at the end of last year is more important than trying to change all the guys we personally hate

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Old
07-28-2006, 11:09 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Ludo View Post
I can see your point, but after watching 95% of MTL's games last year (as you may have done also) I feel Bouillon brings much more to each match than Rivet or Dandenault (my 2 cents).
I think that Rivet is better than Bouillon but saying that Bouillon is a not good defenseman ,is in my opinion, false. Bouillon and Dandenault did a very interesting line last year, since they are two very mobile defensemans and two defensemans who can do a correct job in any situation, plus Bouillon is a very physical defenseman despite his lack of size.

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07-28-2006, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ProudToBeAHabFan View Post
he was talking about Bouillon, not Souray...
Ah sorry I quote the wrong guy, I was talking to the guy who wanted to trade Souray for Vishnevski

but let s take a look at Bouillon offensive production for the last 2 years...

140 games - 40 pts

It still 16 more pts than Vishnevski with less games played (15).

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07-28-2006, 11:12 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Ludo View Post
I can see your point, but after watching 95% of MTL's games last year (as you may have done also) I feel Bouillon brings much more to each match than Rivet or Dandenault (my 2 cents).
Dandenault is interesting, because, I agree 100%, Bouillon was better than Dandenault in the first half. Bouillon played very well in the first half and then regressed in the 2nd, while Dandenault did the opposite. The true test will be next year, but I'm thinking under Gainey's system, Dandenault is more important to the team to Bouillon.

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07-28-2006, 11:17 PM
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I guess they dont need other defencemen, when they have superstars Pronger, Niedermayer and Beauchemin.
Can we stop saying beauchemin is a superstar please. Hes a fringe D on most teams, but hes playing with a top 3 in the league.

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07-28-2006, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
Vushnevski is a good defenseman, but why losing our only defenseman who can score 15-20 goals in a season. Souray is a great player, no matter what the morons on 110% can say, plus he's a great leader and a good guy.

Who will you use on the powerplay next year if we lose Souray? Markov and who?? Streit is not a good offensive defenseman at the moment (even if he could someday) and Bouillon/Dandenault/Rivet are already working on the second line of the powerplay. I don't think that any of those 3 guys are good enough to play on the first line of powerplay.

Souray got one of the best shot in the NHL and one of the most dangerous defenseman at the point. We already have a bunch of good defensive defenseman, I don't why we should trade Souray for a other one
I can't believe all the trade proposale including Souray.. Especially when we don't get an offensive Defenceman in return


Souray is our toughest player by far

He is also the only Defenceman we got that can score 15-20 goals

We have 2 offensive capable Defenceman Markov and Souray and a sub defenceman that has offensive capabilities.

Markov Komisarek
Souray Rivet
Bouillon Dandeneault

Striet, Cote


The best affordable thing we can do to our defence is trade dandeneault and Drop rivet to the 3rd pair and Get a new 2-way defensman for the 2nd pairing with wheels to help with sourays only real flaw(slow)but he is a big man with decent agility and one of the best point shots in the league.



Rivet should retire a hab he wears the CH with Honour same with Souray

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07-28-2006, 11:20 PM
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But if we are going after Vishnevski we will need to probably trade Rivet. Slow defensive defenceman for Slow Defensive defenceman.

It might be in seperate deals but i would be sad to see rivet go

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07-28-2006, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
Why would you put two defensive defenseman on your first two defensive line?

Which defensive line was the best last year? It was Markov and Komisarek , two guys who don't have much in common. Markov is a offensive mind defenseman and Komisarek a defensive mind defenseman.

How your first or second line can be great offensively if you don't have a least 1 good offensive defenseman who can do at least a good first pass or be dangerous at the point? You can't just put 2 heavy defensive defenseman and think that everything will go well. Basically you are screwing your offensives lines to improve your defense at the blue line.


the type of game Vishnevski plays it would be great to have him on our blueline to possibily ignite Komoseriek's physcial play .

a bigtime hitter on the d corp like Vishnevski would be a good thing for Komoseriek a good buddy to hang out with and pick up some tips on hitting hopefully a little bit of Vishnevski's mean streak would rub off on Komoseriek

Vishnevski would be the Steve Begin on defense .he'd get everyone going with his bone crushing hits


sometimes it not about how many they score it about how many they prevent . would
Vishnevski only scoring 1 goal a year prevent less goals with his defensive play than say a guy on our current defensemen on our roster who only scored say 7 or 8 goals goals? thats the way id look at it ...

Vishnevski doesnt score many but he is sound defensivly and keeps alot of guys honest and thinking when he's on the ice . that alone is a weapoon we dont currently have and he still young yet just coming into his prime

dont get me wrong we have guys that can hit like frank the tank i seen him dish out some nice one's on alot of bigger guys but he isnt anywhere as feared as Vishnevski

Vishnevski has a reputation around the leauge of nailing people guys know who he is
and if there thinking about him while there on the ice that is always a advantage to your team


if you asked players in the nhl what defensmen they'd be most scared of getting hit by


Vishnevski
Boullion
Markov
Souray
Rivet
Dandy
Streit

id bet 9 out of 10 guys say Vishnevski


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Old
07-28-2006, 11:38 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
the type of game Vishnevski plays it would be great to have him on our blueline to possibily ignite Komoseriek's physcial play .

a bigtime hitter on the d corp like Vishnevski would be a good thing for Komoseriek a good buddy to hang out with and pick up some tips on hitting hopefully a little bit of
Vishnevski means streak would rub off on Komoseriek

Vishnevski would be the steve begin on defense .he'd get everyone going with his bone crushing hits


sometimes it not about how many they score it about how many they prevent . would
Vishnevski prevent less goals with his defensive play than say a guy on our current roster who only scored 3 goals? Vishnevski doesnt score many but he is sound defensivly and keep alot of guys honest and thinking when he on the ice . that alone is a weapoon we dont currently have
A first line (and often second) defenseman doesn't only need to create a good defense , one of his primary job is to ignite your first and second offensive line . He needs to create play with his vision , he needs to move the puck in the offensive zone, he needs to scare the other team with his ability to strike from the point.

If the opponent know that your defensemans cannot hurt you at the blue line, they can be much more aggressive with the forwards. It always good to have 1 good defensive defenseman on your first or second defensive line since he can backup his linemate who can go deeper in the offensive zone but I really don't see the utility to have two of them on your first or second defensive line.

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07-28-2006, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
Ah sorry I quote the wrong guy, I was talking to the guy who wanted to trade Souray for Vishnevski

but let s take a look at Bouillon offensive production for the last 2 years...

140 games - 40 pts

It still 16 more pts than Vishnevski with less games played (15).
Over a two year period, the difference is not huge, imo. Furthermore, in addition to better defensive and physical abilities, Vishnevski has the potential to get better whereas Bouillon won't get any better.

I did say Bouillon, not Souray

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07-29-2006, 12:05 AM
  #75
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i wish i could find this video man i remember this hit it was down right crazy . campbell looked dead seriously


Jan. 24, 2006 - 7:32 a.m. ET


Greg Campbell is still experiencing a headache.
Campbell, who was knocked out by the Mighty Ducks' Vitaly Vishnevski on Saturday said he didn't remember the check until he watched the replay. "Everything came back to me except the hit," he said. It's not known how long Campbell will be out. When the headaches stop, he'll ride a stationary bike before he skates.






The Ducks took Vishnevski fifth overall in the 1998 draft, then watched their new acquisition lead the Russians to the gold medal in the World Junior Championship in 1999. "Vish" was named the best defensman in the tournament. He played his first game in the NHL in the 1999-2000 season and quickly garnered a reputation for crushing body checks. "Forwards around the league know who Vish is and they keep their heads up when he's out there," said Henning. "Vish does a great job of stepping up in the neutral zone." Vishnevski is big (6-2, 205) and mean, but he's young and doesn't play that many minutes . But he adds a healthy dose of growl to a crew of D-men







as i said we dont have that type of weapon on our blueline . he is a guy who wants to take your head off but cleanly .


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