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The Rangers lack of depth

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Old
03-13-2013, 06:56 AM
  #51
Ail
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
The number one collective concern from the Nash trade is a reality.
Secondary scoring was a problem well before the Nash trade. This team hasn't had secondary scoring for years.

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03-13-2013, 06:57 AM
  #52
Bob Richards
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A Dubinsky type player is one thing, I guess....

Dubi himself? Absolutely not.

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03-13-2013, 07:52 AM
  #53
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Gaborik has been a shadow of himself. Same with Richards. Any team with (2) players making 14+ million combined on the cap not playing up to their normal standards is going to have problems. It thrusts other players like Pyatt, Boyle, Miller, Halpern into more offensive roles in fans eyes as they see Richards has 15 points so he can't be that bad! Not the case.

If you are expecting players like Pyatt, Boyle, etc to carry the offense, that means the top-6 is under-performing.

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03-13-2013, 08:01 AM
  #54
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Saad is another contributor to the Hawks. Saad,Shaw,Kruger and Leedy.

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03-13-2013, 08:17 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Lack of depth? The 2011-12 Rangers didn't get much offense out of their bottom six. Boyle had 11 goals last season. He has 1 so far. That's not lack of depth. Boyle needs to play better. Rupp had 4 goals in 60 games. Prust had 5 goals in 82 games. Mitchell had 5 goals in 63 games. Anisimov scored the majority of his points playing left wing with Stepan and Gaborik in the fall of 2011. Dubinsky had 10 goals 77 games playing all over the place because he was struggling with everyone. Fedotenko had 9 goals in 73 games. I saw a stat on Fedotenko last week. He went 4 or 5 games in a row without a shot on goal for Philly. Prust was a 4th liner last season.
The production we got from last year's bottom-6 is still better than what we're getting now. These players need to play better. Boyle and Pyatt shouldn't be contributing next to nothing. Maybe get a goal or two from Powe, who has 0 points this season.

Point is, regardless of whether or not the top players are producing, the team can't get 5 goals from their bottom 6 through 25 games. It's simply not good enough. It's not so much that the roster is lacking depth, it's the depth players are not playing as well as they could.

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The Rangers need their top players to play better. The guys who make all of the money. Richards and Gaborik. All of the top teams have their best players playing like their best players. Not the case for the Rangers. Look at Chicago.
I don't disagree. Richards and Gaborik DO have to be better. It's been a big problem. Richards looks to be improving. Gaborik, I don't know what's up with him, but he needs to kick it into gear, big time.

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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Depth is built with young players developing. Look at Chicago. Shaw,Kruger and Leddy. Its not built with 3rd and 4th liners on long term contracts acquired in trades. Its not built with dropping close to $2M per on role players in free agency like Burish,Tootoo and Torrey Mitchell. Or $2.5M on Prust.
Hawks have a good 3rd line of young players in Bickell/Shaw/Stalberg. Rangers could have a solid 3rd line like that if Kreider were playing better. Kreider/Miller/Callahan was a solid line when they were together. Hopefully Kreider can earn the callup and add some more depth.

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03-13-2013, 08:50 AM
  #56
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FWIW, I would have brought back Prust at 2.5m per over anyone on our bottom 6.. Prust at 2.5 is not really overpaid when you think about it.
just another example of Sather's ego hurting the team.

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03-13-2013, 09:04 AM
  #57
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By all accounts with Prust it wasn't just $.

He wanted to play in Montreal. Sather made him a good offer.

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03-13-2013, 09:07 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
By all accounts with Prust it wasn't just $.

He wanted to play in Montreal. Sather made him a good offer.
this is true. Sather made Prust a good offer. Prust wanted overpayment. he can take his 6g and you know what....

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03-13-2013, 09:11 AM
  #59
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How many goals did the Rangers bottom six players have through 25 games last season? Rupp wasn't playing because of knee surgery. Mitchell and Hagelin didn't come up until Thanksgiving which is game 20-25 of an 82 game season. Wolski was hurt. Boyle. Fedotenko. Prust. Crusher.

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03-13-2013, 09:18 AM
  #60
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No team has a 4th line that's contributing more than 15 or so goals over the course of a full 82 game season. Powe, Halpy and Haley are excellent on the forecheck and do exactly what you want your 4th line to do. The real problem is that Tortorella thinks the remedy for everything is to put "Jam" on it, and we start seeing those guys playing above where they should be because they skate hard every shift.

We need more from the 3rd line. Starting with a legitimate 3rd line center. Boyle has lost whatever it was that he had and Miller just isn't ready to carry a line as a center. Pyatt has cooled off considerably, but he's fine as a 3rd line winger. I don't even need more goals. Just more chances. They don't spend enough time in the offensive zone.

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03-13-2013, 09:19 AM
  #61
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I, for one, don't believe we'll ever see McIlrath play an NHL game

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03-13-2013, 10:13 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Wamsutta View Post
I, for one, don't believe we'll ever see McIlrath play an NHL game
Even I wouldn't go that far.

The team has some players. Look around the league. If top lines are not going, some teams get production from other lines, even teams with little depth. This team gets nothing from nobody when the teams top players are not on. And vice versa.

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03-13-2013, 10:22 AM
  #63
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I still miss him, but am the only one that still thinks that not resigning Prust was the right move? Montreal will probably cool off soon and everyone will be reminded that he's an overpaid 4th liner.

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03-13-2013, 10:35 AM
  #64
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even last year we didn't get much of secondary scoring.. it was gaborik, richards, callahan and stepan.. hags to some degree..

i think they expected Kreider to be dominating and stepping up this year and he hasnt done that obviously.. he was suppose to be our secondary scorer and isn't even up here.. Gabs is just in a funk and i dont think he's hurt nor do i think hes being miss treated by torts like "left over trash/garbage" as some of you think/said... hes comfortable on the right but i mean hes a pro and has to step up.. he earns the big bucks and has to do whats asked of him.. if that means play lw he should step up and play lw bc thats whats best for the team..stop making excuses for this team and blame them on torts or the "system" Callahan, nash and stepan are playing well aren;t they??? so no excuses for richards and gabs, they need to step up and make plays..

we're not playing terrible hockey, just not playing consistently.. maybe its all mental due to the fact we're suppose to be cup favs this year.. I mean we're playing much better as of late and your not going to win every night.. after every loss some fans go nuts and criticize the team to the fullest and call for problems/drastic measures.. i think the nash trade set us back big time on the short term due to the fact we changed out players that have been here for years.. we had to do the nash trade and i think the players we signed as secondary arent really that good.. hopefully kreider keeps excelling down in CT and comes up in a few weeks and goes on a tear..

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03-13-2013, 10:44 AM
  #65
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Forget scoring, these guys need to shoot.

Miller trys to take it to the net and gets shots off. Pyatt, Boyle and Halpern sometimes.

Powe needs to start getting it to the net. It seems like it's very low on his priority list out there. I love what he brings otherwise, but there are plenty of times during a shift where he can center a puck or just get it into the crease from behind the net and he doesn't.

It's great that they can grind it out along the wall and cycle, but they need to start generating some chances, even if its from low quality areas. Throw it at the net. Get it back to the D for a shot. There's very little of that from the lower lines. Its like they just want to bang and kill time off the clock. I'm sorry but there comes a time when you need more.

You have contribute SOMETHING it cant always be the top 6 producing. Thats why losing guys like Prust, Feds and Mitchell hurt because they were popping in goals here and there. We finally get a stud in Nash but now have no depth. (and its not because of the trade). If you added Nash last year and still had Prust, Feds and Mitchell, this team would have been a real threat. Its not about Dubi and Anisimov - because Nash is providing everything they did and more.

Im not talking tons of goals either. Im talking a goal here and there from these guys. Last night they had a good amount of ice time and it would have been a huge shot in the arm for team had they been able to pop one in. But its not a good sign that they arent even generating SCORING CHANCES, let alone goals. Against good defensive teams they'll have no chance.

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Old
03-15-2013, 11:20 AM
  #66
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Worst Bottom-6 In NHL?

I think our lack of depth on the bottom two lines has been our undoing this season. Of course, the bottom two lines aren't emphasized for scoring, BUT they are supposed to chip in OCCASIONALLY. Especially the third line. And we just don't have that. I can't think of a less productive bottom-6 in the NHL.

Pyatt 4g 2a 6pts (he's split his time between top-6 and bottom-6)
Boyle 1g 1a 2pts
Miller 2g 2a 4pts (both goals came in 1 game)
Halpern 0g 1a 1pt
Powe 0g 0a 0pts

Asham 1g 0a 1pt (12 games played)

You're 3rd and 4th lines shouldn't carry the offense, but they should be contributing every now and then. Between the three players in bold, each of which has played over 20 games, they've only scored 1 goal. Of which, Boyle gets 3rd line minutes (13:56 per game). Powe and Halpern each get close to 10 minutes a game and neither have produced.

We moved Rupp for Powe, and sure, Powe is faster, but at least Rupp would put a goal on the board occasionally and drop the gloves for his team.

And I know Nash has been fantastic for this team, but I can't help but feel we lost too much depth taking on that $7.8 million cap hit. Dubinsky/Anisimov were two critical role players for us each of whom can contribute in the 3rd line role. We lost Prust, who is having a great year for his role in MTL, because we didn't want to take on the $2.5 million cap hit (likely b/c of the Nash contract). We lost Fedotenko who was a solid role player, good defensively and chipped in goals when he could. Even guys like John Mitchell are better than anyone we were icing in the bottom-6 this year (he had 5g 11a for us in 65 games last season and already has 8g this year).

This team just doesn't have any depth anymore and it's a major issue this team has to address. Sure, the team isn't doing as good because their key players like Gaborik, McDonagh and Girardi are all having so-so years. Richards play is non-existent. But it's also because we lost WAY too much depth.

And Lundqvist isn't as good as last year, but he's still having a solid season and it's more because of the team in front of him then anything else. If your starting goaltender is a 2.27GAA and .920SV%, he should have better than a .500 record.

As a Ranger fan, at this point, I'm almost conflicted about the Nash trade because I'm not sure if we're really a better TEAM for it.

Look at Columbus, they added much needed depth, and they're having there best year in five years. We have too much top end talent (or at least referred to as "top end" talent not producing like "top end talent") and no one in the bottom-6 who can contribute ANYTHING.

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03-15-2013, 11:29 AM
  #67
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Halpern and Powe are top Pkers in the NHL, and do a decent job on the 4th line cycling and not giving up much defensively. I feel like this particular line is only an issue because of the lack of scoring from guys like Gaborik and Richards (here we go again).

If this team was clicking on the top end, we would be loving the 4th line for the minutes they provide in the other zone, killing some time effectively within the system.

Now the 3rd line is another story. To me that ones on Slats. He mis-examined the depth on this team in that regard and probably figured Richards and Gabby would be Richards and Gabby. Boyle has dropped off but i dont think you realistically could have expected another 20 goal season out of him. Miller (while I love him) would still be in Hartford if this team had the proper depth. Not enough scoring chances, let alone goals.

While im not a huge fight guy, they are missing that spark as well. That seemed to ignite the team last year and losing guys like Rupp and Prust supplied that in timely fashion.

A lot of things are missing with the bottom lines, but I dont think it would be as exaggerated as it is now if certain top line players were performing to their abilities.

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03-15-2013, 11:30 AM
  #68
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Honestly, I had Kreider penciled in for 20 goals this year and not having him around really hurts our secondary scoring IMO, because he should have either been scoring goals himself or pushing another scorer out of the top 6 down to the 3rd line to have some offense there.

I thought he was a sure thing after the playoffs last year.

In an ideal world, we'd have something like Kreider-Miller-Pyatt as our third line chipping in goals and Halpern-Powe-Asham/Haley on the 4th.

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03-15-2013, 11:33 AM
  #69
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If not, I feel for the team with the worst.

I would guess it's at least the lowest scoring bottom six. Hopefully Kreider can rebound and give us something down the stretch, a solid bottom six player is added, and Boyle gives another late-season scoring flurry.

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Old
03-15-2013, 11:41 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Halpern and Powe are top Pkers in the NHL, and do a decent job on the 4th line cycling and not giving up much defensively. I feel like this particular line is only an issue because of the lack of scoring from guys like Gaborik and Richards (here we go again).

If this team was clicking on the top end, we would be loving the 4th line for the minutes they provide in the other zone, killing some time effectively within the system.

Now the 3rd line is another story. To me that ones on Slats. He mis-examined the depth on this team in that regard and probably figured Richards and Gabby would be Richards and Gabby. Boyle has dropped off but i dont think you realistically could have expected another 20 goal season out of him. Miller (while I love him) would still be in Hartford if this team had the proper depth. Not enough scoring chances, let alone goals.

While im not a huge fight guy, they are missing that spark as well. That seemed to ignite the team last year and losing guys like Rupp and Prust supplied that in timely fashion.

A lot of things are missing with the bottom lines, but I dont think it would be as exaggerated as it is now if certain top line players were performing to their abilities.
I agree. But when those players aren't producing, you'd like your 3rd line to step up and score a goal on the rare occasion to keep the team in the game. And they just aren't doing that. If our top-6 isn't scoring, NO ONE is. And I think that's a big problem.

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03-15-2013, 11:42 AM
  #71
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We have two 4th lines

/thread

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03-15-2013, 11:43 AM
  #72
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I've been pleased with the games of Halpern, Powe, Pyatt.

I think our whole team hasn't scored enough, and Tortorella has consequently been shifting the bottom six less. Less ive time= less production. The first 2 lines lack of consistent production has trickled down on the rest of the team

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Old
03-15-2013, 11:44 AM
  #73
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Powe has been outstanding for us, no one should be bashing him at all...

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03-15-2013, 11:51 AM
  #74
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Powe has been outstanding for us, no one should be bashing him at all...
I'm not bashing anyone, I just think we need someone to score from the bottom six. Even Halpern should be scoring at a 15-20 point pace.

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Old
03-15-2013, 11:51 AM
  #75
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PA Parenteau-What Happened?

The Rangers are always needy of scoring.
He slipped away to the Isles and now with the Avs is hardly proving he was a leach off Tavares there.

How did the Rangers let a solid scoring talent go? Bad move Slats.

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