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kindl 27 points, + 49 over a 82 game season

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:46 PM
  #101
Winger98
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
Other than Jarnkrok (which would be a stretch), that still a pretty stagnant roster, and it really is a tough thing to predict: Will Holland stand-pat like most people think, or will he surprise everyone and make some significant moves? If not at the deadline, perhaps the off-season?

Can't please all the people all the time.
Well, it's stagnant if a couple of those kids get on and stay on this season, which already isn't happening with Tatar being demoted. I'm fine with gradual turnover, if we're giving kids chances when they earn them. We work Gus, Tatar and a 3rd guy in next year, we then have Sammy and Bert definitely coming off the year after to open up a couple of spots, and we can roll kids into the lineup pretty smoothly.

With the mess they've gotten themselves into now, though...I don't get their plan for roster/prospect development other than to hoard as many assets as possible.

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03-12-2013, 01:59 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Well, it's stagnant if a couple of those kids get on and stay on this season, which already isn't happening with Tatar being demoted. I'm fine with gradual turnover, if we're giving kids chances when they earn them. We work Gus, Tatar and a 3rd guy in next year, we then have Sammy and Bert definitely coming off the year after to open up a couple of spots, and we can roll kids into the lineup pretty smoothly.
Perhaps "stagnant" was too strong a word, but I don't know how else to say it right now.

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With the mess they've gotten themselves into now, though...I don't get their plan for roster/prospect development other than to hoard as many assets as possible.
Eh, see my post on the other thread about this being a "throw-away" season. It really makes sense to me (though that's not saying a whole lot)...

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03-12-2013, 04:43 PM
  #103
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Because one guy has dime a dozen ability and one guy doesn't.
Talent doesnt mean anything if your talent involves turning the puck over the most on the team while playing small, sheltered minutes. Youre a little too much in awe of his physical ability and not looking enough at what he can do with them.

Lashoff is more physical, a better shot blocker and will be better defensively when all is said and done. Both have their place on a team

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03-12-2013, 05:19 PM
  #104
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Lashoff has been a disaster at times, don't know what makes you think he'll be better defensively.

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03-12-2013, 05:50 PM
  #105
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Will be better? Lashoff is already better than Kindl defensively. It's not really close.

I am excited about Kindl though. I think he is, or is at least close to actually being, a bottom-pairing PMD who can do a little damage on the PP. It wasn't too long ago that I felt he was done in Detroit, so credit to him for establishing himself. I'veactually liked the Lashoff-Kindl pairing and wouldn't mind it being our bottom pair next season at all.

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03-12-2013, 05:58 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Will be better? Lashoff is already better than Kindl defensively. It's not really close.

I am excited about Kindl though. I think he is, or is at least close to actually being, a bottom-pairing PMD who can do a little damage on the PP. It wasn't too long ago that I felt he was done in Detroit, so credit to him for establishing himself. I'veactually liked the Lashoff-Kindl pairing and wouldn't mind it being our bottom pair next season at all.
Lashoff isn't much better than Kindl defensively. Just because he's a stay-at-home defenseman doesn't mean he great defensively. He's always caught out of position.

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03-12-2013, 06:07 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
Lashoff isn't much better than Kindl defensively. Just because he's a stay-at-home defenseman doesn't mean he great defensively. He's always caught out of position.
No he was exposed as being a bit slow at times but he was pretty good on the PK, blocking shots, getting physical and he hasnt had a lot of development time.

Kindl is 4 years older. Some people give Kindl a little too much of a leash because he was a first round pick that they think hasnt been given a chance. Hes 26 and should've taken a spot by now and he finally is. Lashoff gets no leeway when hes undrafted and that muc younger

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03-12-2013, 06:11 PM
  #108
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Lashoff isn't much better than Kindl defensively. Just because he's a stay-at-home defenseman doesn't mean he great defensively. He's always caught out of position.
Lashoff is still in an adjustment period, being brand new to the NHL, and therefor has made some mistakes. But the instincts for defensive positioning are clearly there. He currently has a head for defensive play while Kindl does not. He's made countless good plays in his own end, often under a lot of pressure. He's more smooth in his own zone than Kindl, he even transitions the puck out better than Kindl most times. He also blocks more shots, throws more hits, and turns over the puck less in his own zone. Lashoff is not a top shutdown guy, but he has been much better than Kindl defensively. He wasn't getting top pair and middle pair minutes while Kindl was a #6/7 because Mike Babcock is a moron, though I'm sure some people believe that.

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03-12-2013, 07:01 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Will be better? Lashoff is already better than Kindl defensively. It's not really close.

I am excited about Kindl though. I think he is, or is at least close to actually being, a bottom-pairing PMD who can do a little damage on the PP. It wasn't too long ago that I felt he was done in Detroit, so credit to him for establishing himself. I'veactually liked the Lashoff-Kindl pairing and wouldn't mind it being our bottom pair next season at all.
I like that pairing too, and I actually think they have the potential to eventually become more than a 5-6 pairing.

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03-12-2013, 07:11 PM
  #110
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No he was exposed as being a bit slow at times but he was pretty good on the PK, blocking shots, getting physical and he hasnt had a lot of development time.

Kindl is 4 years older. Some people give Kindl a little too much of a leash because he was a first round pick that they think hasnt been given a chance. Hes 26 and should've taken a spot by now and he finally is. Lashoff gets no leeway when hes undrafted and that muc younger
Yeah don't get me wrong, Lashoff is serviceable defensively on the third pairing and second unit PK. He's not as good defensively as people are saying.

I'm not basing my analysis off of someone's age, draft position or any other bias. I legitimately think Kindl is much better than Lashoff, which should be the case. Kindl has a lot of tools that Lashoff doesn't, its very apparent to me.

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03-12-2013, 07:40 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
Yeah don't get me wrong, Lashoff is serviceable defensively on the third pairing and second unit PK. He's not as good defensively as people are saying.
Who's saying he's more than that?


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I'm not basing my analysis off of someone's age, draft position or any other bias. I legitimately think Kindl is much better than Lashoff, which should be the case. Kindl has a lot of tools that Lashoff doesn't, its very apparent to me.
What tools does Kindl have that Lashoff doesn't. There are a couple, but I'd like to see the "a lot" list.

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03-12-2013, 07:45 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Who's saying he's more than that?
That's how it sounded but maybe I was misinterpreting.


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What tools does Kindl have that Lashoff doesn't. There are a couple, but I'd like to see the "a lot" list.
Skating, vision, better first-pass, bigger shot and offensive awareness to name a few. Lots more tools.

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03-12-2013, 07:59 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Talent doesnt mean anything if your talent involves turning the puck over the most on the team while playing small, sheltered minutes. Youre a little too much in awe of his physical ability and not looking enough at what he can do with them.

Lashoff is more physical, a better shot blocker and will be better defensively when all is said and done. Both have their place on a team
No offense, but don't presume to tell me what I'm in awe of.
You don't hear me telling you what you're in awe of with Lashoff.

I don't know how many times I have to say that Kindl has looked shakey with the puck from his own end to center ice.

But I think this is something that he will, for the most part, outgrow.

I like the way Kindl moves with the puck on the powerplay. From the offensive blueline in, he's a really good player.

He's getting better with positioning and his work along the boards has been impressive.

I still see him give the puck away and get caught pinching. But you know, I see Kronwall getting caught a lot too.

Kindl isn't going to be Lidstrom. He's going to make mistakes. But he could be a guy who plays like a Hamrlik.


As for Lashoff. He's got little talent. His defensive positioning is really weak for a "stay-at-home" guy. He doesn't have any real energy on the ice despite a lot of hits.
I'm not impressed at all.


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03-12-2013, 08:45 PM
  #114
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I love the way kindl has been playing and the way he has been moving the puck lately, im startiNg to believe he can be a top 4 in Detroit, I just hope he gets that chance here


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03-13-2013, 12:39 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
Skating, vision, better first-pass, bigger shot and offensive awareness to name a few. Lots more tools.
I'll give you offensive awareness, especially on the PP, and skating. His first pass is average and no better than Lashoff's at this point (it should be better, given Kindl's supposed skill). "Vision" is a little ambiguous. Kindl has better offensive vision, but Lashoff is better in his own end, and better at getting the puck out under pressure. I'll also agree that Kindl has a better shot, but I don't think it's bigger, at least not in the sense that it's any harder than Lashoff's, nor is it more accurate. Kindl just puts his shot to better use.

So, a couple things Kindl is clearly better at, and a couple more by a hair. But the inverse is true as well. Neither guy excited me a ton, but I like how Kindl has shown some consistency/development lately, and I like how Lashoff has surprised. I also like how they seem to complement each other. They've been a pretty decent third pairing of late.

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03-13-2013, 08:23 AM
  #116
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It's getting pretty bad when people value guys like Lashoff and Abdelkater so highly.

Lashoff is a 7-8 guy on a decent team, probable career AHLer.

Wish he was back where he belongs.

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03-13-2013, 08:42 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
What tools does Kindl have that Lashoff doesn't. There are a couple, but I'd like to see the "a lot" list.
Dude, don't even bother. The extremely vocal Anti-Lashoff Authority here will just put their fingers in their ears and

Just not worth the effort.

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03-13-2013, 08:48 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Forty View Post
It's getting pretty bad when people value guys like Lashoff and Abdelkater so highly.

Lashoff is a 7-8 guy on a decent team, probable career AHLer.

Wish he was back where he belongs.
In for Ian White? I agree.

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03-13-2013, 09:12 AM
  #119
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Dude, don't even bother. The extremely vocal Anti-Lashoff Authority here will just put their fingers in their ears and

Just not worth the effort.
Anti-Lashoff? Nobody's anti-Lashoff, we're just giving our opinions on his play.

This thread is about Kindl anyways.

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03-13-2013, 09:23 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
Anti-Lashoff? Nobody's anti-Lashoff, we're just giving our opinions on his play.

This thread is about Kindl anyways.
Seems like everybody is confused about which player to discuss now that Hudler is not a Wing.

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03-13-2013, 09:49 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Seems like everybody is confused about which player to discuss now that Hudler is not a Wing.
You're not.

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03-13-2013, 10:14 AM
  #122
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Seems like everybody is confused about which player to discuss now that Hudler is not a Wing.
good point

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03-13-2013, 10:32 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Forty View Post
It's getting pretty bad when people value guys like Lashoff and Abdelkater so highly.

Lashoff is a 7-8 guy on a decent team, probable career AHLer.

Wish he was back where he belongs.
Whats Kindl on a decent team?

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03-13-2013, 12:02 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
Anti-Lashoff? Nobody's anti-Lashoff, we're just giving our opinions on his play.

This thread is about Kindl anyways.
Hyperbole.

And yeah, there actually are at least a couple of "Anti-Lashoff" folks around here.

And you're exactly right, Quincey should be here instead of Lashoff.

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You're not.
Still waiting on that [HUDLER] heading, guys...

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03-13-2013, 01:37 PM
  #125
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Whats Kindl on a decent team?
Right now, 5-6 guy with 2nd unit PP.

In the future.
2-4 guy, 1st unit PP, 2nd unit PK

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