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Gagner NEEDS to stay an Oiler . . .

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Old
03-13-2013, 02:56 PM
  #176
ChadSC
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Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one seeing these amazing defensive lapses on his part.

Everyone sees the points that he gets but not the horrible giveaways/penalties/goals against he gives up/causes.
He leads the team in turnover +/- (takeaways - giveaways).

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Old
03-13-2013, 03:16 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by ChadSC View Post
He leads the team in turnover +/- (takeaways - giveaways).
haha I pointed out two glaring turnovers he made last game. Neither one is on the "official" Ave's scorecard though so I guess it didnt happen

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Old
03-13-2013, 03:24 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
haha I pointed out two glaring turnovers he made last game. Neither one is on the "official" Ave's scorecard though so I guess it didnt happen
By no means a perfect stat but an indication that he isn't as bad as you're making it seem.

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03-13-2013, 04:07 PM
  #179
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I still think its too early to give Sam big money..
Anything over 4.5 is too much.

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Old
03-13-2013, 04:37 PM
  #180
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I still think its too early to give Sam big money..
Anything over 4.5 is too much.
Then you better be prepared to trade him because he will hold all of the cards.

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Old
03-13-2013, 05:02 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
I'd imagine, Gagner gets 4.5M long-term. If they get to draft a big 2C (Monahan/Barkov), so much the better. In that case Gagner can replace Hemsky on the RW.
Uhh Eberle and Yakupov would be the top RWers before Gagner.

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Old
03-13-2013, 08:19 PM
  #182
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Maybe instead of nitpicking apart Gagner's mistakes (oh...he made 2 last game), some posters should concentrate on all the good defensive things he's done lately. Last game, aprt from a few gaffs in the D zone, he looked pretty solid. I probably counted 20 of those plays that nobody seems to mention.

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03-13-2013, 08:25 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
Maybe instead of nitpicking apart Gagner's mistakes (oh...he made 2 last game), some posters should concentrate on all the good defensive things he's done lately. Last game, aprt from a few gaffs in the D zone, he looked pretty solid. I probably counted 20 of those plays that nobody seems to mention.
Thats the thing that everyone continues to ignore though. His defensive play continues to be poor. Oh well as long as he gets enough points to offset his poor play HFOil will continue to love Saint Sammy.

I saw a few times on the road trip where he got good body position and on a player on the defensive and managed to get the puck out by making a calm, nice play. I figured that since Replacement and Harpoon had already claimed those to be plays of the year repeatedly that I didnt need to go out of my way to mention them.

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Old
03-13-2013, 08:52 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by RustE View Post
bs. he scored because he was in the right place at the right time.... that's not a fluke. that's reading the play and timing one's arrival to the spot. Bernie Nichols was a master at this. Just always seemed to be there.
Exactly. Are we really at the point of people trying to discredit a guy by saying the guy is getting lucky by driving the net and scoring on rebounds? We need more people doing that

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Old
03-13-2013, 08:55 PM
  #185
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I don't see why Gagner can't turn into a Doug Gilmour-light type of player if he improves his faceoffs and defensive play.

He's consistently brought his offensive game this season (including times when others have dropped off the map), and just as importantly, he seems to have gotten a lot stronger and grittier.

He's only 23 and already appears to have more of a "veteran presence" than Hemsky (FTR, I like Hemsky, but if it comes down to which one gets moved, I choose Ales).

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Old
03-13-2013, 09:33 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Bangers View Post
I don't see why Gagner can't turn into a Doug Gilmour-light type of player if he improves his faceoffs and defensive play.

He's consistently brought his offensive game this season (including times when others have dropped off the map), and just as importantly, he seems to have gotten a lot stronger and grittier.

He's only 23 and already appears to have more of a "veteran presence" than Hemsky (FTR, I like Hemsky, but if it comes down to which one gets moved, I choose Ales).
Where has he been? And who do we expect next season? Last years Sam Gagner? Or this years PPG player?

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Old
03-13-2013, 09:44 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by McArthur View Post
Where has he been? And who do we expect next season? Last years Sam Gagner? Or this years PPG player?
He's been 22.

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Old
03-13-2013, 09:59 PM
  #188
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As good as Sam has been, I'd try to deal him for an upgrade. My perfect scenario would be a deal with Washington for Backstrom. Gagner, Marincin and 2013 first (if it is out of the top 10).

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:08 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
As good as Sam has been, I'd try to deal him for an upgrade. My perfect scenario would be a deal with Washington for Backstrom. Gagner, Marincin and 2013 first (if it is out of the top 10).
That's an ugly trade for us. People are saying they want a 2C who doesn't have the same holes as RNH, Backstrom is basically a poor mans RNH. I want nothing to do with any of those players on Washington. That team is toxic.

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:36 PM
  #190
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Disclaimer: I haven't seen a game for about a month, didn't bother to get the center ice package this year because I'm a bit fed up with all the lockouts. I was super pumped for the season to start and not that excited about the half season. I can hold out til next year to get the pkg again....


People who see Sam Gagner as the main reason why the Oilers won't win the cup are just ****ed up. There are about 15 bigger reasons in the starting lineup and 2 more in upper mgmt.

You might as well say the Titanic isn't running because it needs an oil change.

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:59 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
At this point I think that to trade Gagner the Oilers would have to be blown away by the return. My guess is that he is here for a while.

His contract is going to be quite delicate. He holds the majority of the cards, and if he does not like what he sees he goes to arbitration. Historically, arbitration results are skewed by offensive numbers. The Oilers do not have a good case in this regard. So they need to give him a fair deal but control the parameters.

If he gets over 40 points it will be hard to keep the deal under $5M. But if they are smart they will front load it to keep his trade value going forward. A deal like

7 6.5 4.25 3.75 3.5

is a 5 year deal with a cap hit of $5M. In year three the deal becomes effectively a three year deal at about $3.8M in real dollars. He would still be tradable to a team on a budget if a better option is available.
Isn't there a variance issue with the new CBA that tries to crack down on front loaded contracts like this one.

I don't know what the variance is like. Too lazy to check.

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:54 AM
  #192
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A fun exercise...

Player X at age 21, 22, 23, 24, 25:

GP-G-A-P-PIM
53 8 22 30 23
78 15 25 48 55
84 24 50 74 47
48 7 33 40 69
82 25 79 104 95

Sam Gagner at age 21, 22, 23:

GP-G-A-P-PIM
68 15 27 42 37
75 18 29 47 36
26 10 15 25 19

Player X was 5'11, 200 pounds, a chippy leader and exceptional playmaker. He slowly developed a defensive game and was a willing fighter when the situation called for it. He would go on to have a long career as an adored first line center (and would have made an unbelievable second line center), usually being among the league leaders in points.

Anyone know who Player X was?

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:36 AM
  #193
Oiltankjob Fail
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Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
A fun exercise...

Player X at age 21, 22, 23, 24, 25:

GP-G-A-P-PIM
53 8 22 30 23
78 15 25 48 55
84 24 50 74 47
48 7 33 40 69
82 25 79 104 95

Sam Gagner at age 21, 22, 23:

GP-G-A-P-PIM
68 15 27 42 37
75 18 29 47 36
26 10 15 25 19

Player X was 5'11, 200 pounds, a chippy leader and exceptional playmaker. He slowly developed a defensive game and was a willing fighter when the situation called for it. He would go on to have a long career as an adored first line center (and would have made an unbelievable second line center), usually being among the league leaders in points.

Anyone know who Player X was?
Doug Weight . He was also one of the best passers during dead puck era , Gagner will never reach his level as a set up man.

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:48 AM
  #194
Replacement
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Doug Weight . He was also one of the best passers during dead puck era , Gagner will never reach his level as a set up man.
Gagner will be a better goal scorer. Apples, oranges.

In anycase Doug Weight was a fantastic hockey player. If we're even considering a comparison like this it absolutely means Gagner should stay here.

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:54 AM
  #195
Oiltankjob Fail
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Gagner will be a better goal scorer. Apples, oranges.

In anycase Doug Weight was a fantastic hockey player. If we're even considering a comparison like this it absolutely means Gagner should stay here.
Im 100 percent behind Gags staying, but more comparable to Weight will be RNH in a couple of years. Gagner tool set is a little of everything now good shot above average passer and above average hockey sense. I knew Gagner would get to the level he is at and will stay at this level for 5/6 more seasons at least.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:02 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Im 100 percent behind Gags staying, but more comparable to Weight will be RNH in a couple of years. Gagner tool set is a little of everything now good shot above average passer and above average hockey sense. I knew Gagner would get to the level he is at and will stay at this level for 5/6 more seasons at least.
Weight was strong with a low center of gravity. If Gagner bulks up he's more that player. Nuge is more of a lanky string bean with no meat on him.

But man Weight was a player. Not many guys in the game could handle people like Forsberg. We have nobody on this team that could do that.

Weight was the best forward on this club ever since the glory years. Hands down I would say.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:09 AM
  #197
Oiltankjob Fail
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Weight was strong with a low center of gravity. If Gagner bulks up he's more that player. Nuge is more of a lanky string bean with no meat on him.

But man Weight was a player. Not many guys in the game could handle people like Forsberg. We have nobody on this team that could do that.

Weight was the best forward on this club ever since the glory years. Hands down I would say.
I know you don't like Nuge but he is strong for his lanky body. Nuge will break 100 points in his career Gagner won't and Nuge and Weights passing games are similar great accuracy and getting it through the seams. I live in Red deer have seen RNH all his junior career and out muscle many larger players. You don't have to have bulking biceps to be strong biggest myth out there.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:19 AM
  #198
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1. I can't believe on the Polls board that Turris is currently beating Gagner

2. I can see Gagner turning into a Marc Savard type player.

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Old
03-14-2013, 03:41 AM
  #199
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I really hope we don't ink him to a giant sized contract he ends up not living up to.

Pisani and Horcoff NEEDED to stay too remember (lol) and we paid dearly for those deals among others and they never were able to replicate their contract years.

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Old
03-14-2013, 04:02 AM
  #200
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I hope we can sign him to a 4-5 year, 4-4.5M/year deal. The thing with Gagner is that he is still so young. He is only 23 and he has a great work ethic on and off the ice. Everyone can see that he actually gives a **** if this team is losing or isn't playing well. Probably has the most heart on this team as well. I highly doubt we start to see him decline or anything like that.

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