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The Canucks are in a tailspin

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:30 AM
  #426
y2kcanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post
No. Henrik is the heart and soul of this team. Kesler is our only consistent source for secondary scoring though and without him, we are struggling to put up more than 2 goals per game
I disagree with this. During our SCF run Henrik was nowhere to be found outside of the San Jose series. Kesler is the heart and soul of our forward group (along with Burrows), Bieksa is for our defense, and Luongo has that swagger in net to take control in games like last night where we are out chances at even strength 14-4.

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:42 AM
  #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I disagree with this. During our SCF run Henrik was nowhere to be found outside of the San Jose series. Kesler is the heart and soul of our forward group (along with Burrows), Bieksa is for our defense, and Luongo has that swagger in net to take control in games like last night where we are out chances at even strength 14-4.
No.

The only thing I agree with is Luongo.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:20 PM
  #428
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It baffles me how people bash on booth so much and call it a foolish trade and rip on Gillis because of it.

Are you trying to tell me you would rather have an extra 4 mil in cap space and no player at all? Or that you would rather have another overpaid 3rd/4th liner that would have been all that was available last off-season?

The only guy that would have made sense in FA was Parenteau; and as much as i thought he was the play-maker we needed, the 4 yr 16 mil deal he signed is no better than booth's and riskier in the sense that all his points came from playing with Tavares. Not to mention he is slow and soft; something people would surely be whining about if he wasn't producing. Would i take Parenteau over booth? Yes, but only because he has an element that we are lacking (right-handed playmaker). Apparently though, everyone thinks we need size and that is the only way to win.

We took a chance on a relatively young, proven top 6 player and gave up nothing. Yes, he hasn't lived up to expectations but noone on our team has this year. If he was the only one that wasn't producing or being effective then there would be something to whine/complain/be concerned about. He may not be the best fit for our system, but he has shown flashes of brilliance which lead me to believe he can succeed here. At least he brings speed and size, and evidenced by his hit last night can throw his body around.

There is absolutely no cohesion on the 2nd or 3rd lines anyways. In fact its hard to even call them lines; its essentially just 3 guys on the ice at the same time and only through individual efforts does anything seem to happen.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:37 PM
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
And the bolded is the only one brought in under Gillis and he wasn't even drafted.

Mike Gillis has been terrible at the draft, and this is after criticizing Nonis for his drafting which included Edler, Schneider, Grabner, Bourdon, Raymond, Hansen in just 4 drafts compared to Gillis and his 5 drafts.

Our player development was actually better under Nonis than it has been under Gillis, other than Tanev who else has been brought up? Schroeder LMAO, the Hodgson disaster? lol jensen better be really good or the last 5 years has been a gigantic bust prospect wise for Gillis. Who btw is incredibly overrated.
Two things that need to be considered:
1) It takes a lot of time to accurately assess the quality of prospects. Right now you list Hansen, Raymond, Grabner, Schneider, etc. but they weren't that impressive when Gillis first got here (except maybe Schneider).
2) Nonis got higher draft picks. Hell, the only reason Gillis was able to even draft Hodgson was because Nonis missed the playoffs as our GM.

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Old
03-13-2013, 03:15 PM
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I disagree with this. During our SCF run Henrik was nowhere to be found outside of the San Jose series. Kesler is the heart and soul of our forward group (along with Burrows), Bieksa is for our defense, and Luongo has that swagger in net to take control in games like last night where we are out chances at even strength 14-4.
Henrik is the player all teams focus on. I wonder how different their numbers/performances would have been in that run if Kesler had to go up against

Keith/Seabrook, Weber/Suter, Chara/Seidenberg every shift instead of Henrik.

I can tell you as an Oiler fan that Henrik scares me a hell of a lot more than Kesler.

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Old
03-13-2013, 03:32 PM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
Henrik is the player all teams focus on. I wonder how different their numbers/performances would have been in that run if Kesler had to go up against

Keith/Seabrook, Weber/Suter, Chara/Seidenberg every shift instead of Henrik.

I can tell you as an Oiler fan that Henrik scares me a hell of a lot more than Kesler.
One of the main reasons henrik and the canucks offense was shut down in the scf was because of kesler playing at 40 percent. He was ineffective, so all teams had to do was focus on henrik to shut down the offense.

It's one of the main reasons I think the key missing ingredient is a pure one shot goal scorer. A James Neal type.

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Old
03-13-2013, 05:37 PM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
Henrik is the player all teams focus on. I wonder how different their numbers/performances would have been in that run if Kesler had to go up against

Keith/Seabrook, Weber/Suter, Chara/Seidenberg every shift instead of Henrik.

I can tell you as an Oiler fan that Henrik scares me a hell of a lot more than Kesler.
you really hit the nail on the head here, could not have said it better myself

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Old
03-13-2013, 05:58 PM
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
Henrik is the player all teams focus on. I wonder how different their numbers/performances would have been in that run if Kesler had to go up against

Keith/Seabrook, Weber/Suter, Chara/Seidenberg every shift instead of Henrik.

I can tell you as an Oiler fan that Henrik scares me a hell of a lot more than Kesler.
This guy is right. Kesler is a great player but Henrik is the straw that stirs the drink in Vancouver. He played his heart out against Boston and you can see he and his brother were trying hard. That entire playoff run was being led by the Twins with the exception of the Nashville series.

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:06 PM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawzy View Post
It's irrelevant what you think of his play, he is, by definition, a first line center.
so if Hank goes down, does that mean that Ebetts is our #1 Center?

Do you think he is closer to the 15th or 30th best center in the elague gives us more context, since a guy like Malkin is a # 2 center using your criteria.



Quote:
It's a little bit unfair to compare us to a drafting powerhouse.

90% of the teams in this league would kill for Detroit's ability to draft.

Hence why I said our drafting history isn't great but it isn't awful.
90% of the teams have drafted better than us in the last 5 years as well. It really has been awfull.

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:23 PM
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
What special players do the Wings have from the last 5 drafts? Are you going to tell me Martin Frk, Xavier Oullett and Tomas Tatar are so much better than Gaunce/Schroder/Jensen, ect..?
Well I'll just take one scouting service on how they rank the guys between the 2 teams.

Overall rank listed 1st

39 Gary Nyquist Det
44 Nick Jensen Van
45 Calle Jarnkrock Det
71 Brandon Guance Van
84 Riley Sheeahan Det
86 Tomas Tatar Det

Eddie Lack was the 8th goalie while Petr Mrazek was 21st

While Corrado has made big strides in 13 are they as big as Ferraro?

I haven't even mentioned Ouelett, Sproll or Frk yet.

Much more depth and more high end potential as well, most scouts would agree.

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:25 PM
  #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
so if Hank goes down, does that mean that Ebetts is our #1 Center?

Do you think he is closer to the 15th or 30th best center in the elague gives us more context, since a guy like Malkin is a # 2 center using your criteria.





90% of the teams have drafted better than us in the last 5 years as well. It really has been awfull.
As much as I dislike him you guys drafted Hodgson

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:36 PM
  #437
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Gillis has been okay at drafting, not as tragic as its been in the past. The key difference is the development has changed drastically in Vancouver. Young players aren't getting a chance in the NHL until they show they can be responsible in the AHL on a team that offence doesn't come very easy.

So far players he has brought in (drafted or undrafted) that have a chance to make an impact in the NHL

Hodgson
Schroeder
Tanev
Corrado
Andersson
Jensen
Gaunce
Lack

I won't count others but I think some of Price, Hutton, McNally, Archibald, Labate, Cannata, Tommerness have a chance to play a role on the team in the future. Not so bad considering 2010 they had no picks in the first 3 rounds and their draft position the past 4 seasons.

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:39 PM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
Henrik is the player all teams focus on. I wonder how different their numbers/performances would have been in that run if Kesler had to go up against

Keith/Seabrook, Weber/Suter, Chara/Seidenberg every shift instead of Henrik.

I can tell you as an Oiler fan that Henrik scares me a hell of a lot more than Kesler.
Dude, don't even bother. It's like talking to a brick wall.

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:39 PM
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
Henrik is the player all teams focus on. I wonder how different their numbers/performances would have been in that run if Kesler had to go up against

Keith/Seabrook, Weber/Suter, Chara/Seidenberg every shift instead of Henrik.

I can tell you as an Oiler fan that Henrik scares me a hell of a lot more than Kesler.
Henrik also looks "scarier" offensively than he really is with 78.6% offensive starts in 12 and 71.4% in 11.

He is down to "only" 68.1 this year due in part to injuries to Kesler.

One could just imagine how he would rank scoring wise if every top line in the league players at his % level of offensive zone starts.

As it is this will be the 3rd year his production dips, despite the protection of his minutes.

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:42 PM
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Henrik also looks "scarier" offensively than he really is with 78.6% offensive starts in 12 and 71.4% in 11.

He is down to "only" 68.1 this year due in part to injuries to Kesler.

One could just imagine how he would rank scoring wise if every top line in the league players at his % level of offensive zone starts.

As it is this will be the 3rd year his production dips, despite the protection of his minutes.
Yup, because we've got stud offensive centers like Lapierre and Ebbett that aren't getting their opportunities to due Henrik.

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:44 PM
  #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Henrik also looks "scarier" offensively than he really is with 78.6% offensive starts in 12 and 71.4% in 11.

He is down to "only" 68.1 this year due in part to injuries to Kesler.

One could just imagine how he would rank scoring wise if every top line in the league players at his % level of offensive zone starts.

As it is this will be the 3rd year his production dips, despite the protection of his minutes.
I have no idea how many times this has to be pointed out, but the zone starts didn't change till AFTER Henrik won the Art Ross. It hasn't helped them, and AV's stupidity may actually be hurting them a lot more than helping especially in the playoffs.

Makes it that much easier for coaches to throw out their 5 man units against them, when they always start in the o-zone.

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03-13-2013, 11:53 PM
  #442
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Is H.Sedin seriously getting flak here?

Him and Daniel are pretty much the reason the team has won any games since the end of the six game win streak.

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:58 PM
  #443
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Henrik Sedin - #1 centreman, no doubt about it. Czech out this guy:


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Old
03-14-2013, 12:03 AM
  #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
Gillis has been okay at drafting, not as tragic as its been in the past. The key difference is the development has changed drastically in Vancouver. Young players aren't getting a chance in the NHL until they show they can be responsible in the AHL on a team that offence doesn't come very easy.

So far players he has brought in (drafted or undrafted) that have a chance to make an impact in the NHL

Hodgson
Schroeder
Tanev
Corrado
Andersson
Jensen
Gaunce
Lack

I won't count others but I think some of Price, Hutton, McNally, Archibald, Labate, Cannata, Tommerness have a chance to play a role on the team in the future. Not so bad considering 2010 they had no picks in the first 3 rounds and their draft position the past 4 seasons.
what exactly do you mean by impact? some of the 1st guys listed are role and short term NHL players at this point even in projection.

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03-14-2013, 12:06 AM
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
what exactly do you mean by impact? some of the 1st guys listed are role and short term NHL players at this point even in projection.
"have a CHANCE to make an impact"

Please read.

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:08 AM
  #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
what exactly do you mean by impact? some of the 1st guys listed are role and short term NHL players at this point even in projection.
By those standards only Edler and Schneider were impact players drafted by Nonis.

Hodgson and Jensen by projection should be impact players. Personally I'd add Tanev too as I think he is continuing to improve

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:10 AM
  #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
I have no idea how many times this has to be pointed out, but the zone starts didn't change till AFTER Henrik won the Art Ross. It hasn't helped them, and AV's stupidity may actually be hurting them a lot more than helping especially in the playoffs.

Makes it that much easier for coaches to throw out their 5 man units against them, when they always start in the o-zone.
You honestly don't think that it hasn't helped them?

In 10, his Hart year it was still a healthy 57.7 % rate.

We don't know for sure but it's quite possible and even probable that his decline in production would have been more steep in these last 3 years than it already has been.

Anyone who has ever played hockey at any level knows that playing in the offensive zone is less taxing than in the defensive one.

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:13 AM
  #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
By those standards only Edler and Schneider were impact players drafted by Nonis.

Hodgson and Jensen by projection should be impact players. Personally I'd add Tanev too as I think he is continuing to improve
Hodgson scored over 40 points last year and he's scoring at what slightly over 0.75 pace this year?

I'd say that's a successful draft pick.

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:17 AM
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L4cer8 View Post
"have a CHANCE to make an impact"

Please read.
Well everyone has a chance to have an impact. You listed possible role guys afterwards and Schroeder and Andersson project as bottom 6 or less than top 4 Dmen at this point.

it's also looking unlikely that Gaunce will be a top 6 player as well but he might be an "impact 3rd line " center.

As good as Tanev looks and is at time, will he ever be a top 4 Dman?

I think he might be a very good 4 but time will tell.

Jensen has been all over the map so far and he could be very good but could also bust as well.

Look at his 2nd half in his 2nd junior year last year.

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:29 AM
  #450
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I'd like to interrupt all this complaining and bickering, put aside our fan biases and point out this crazy lack of sarcasm detector from earlier that was missed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skip2mybordeleau View Post
yeah andrew ebbett was sure a better option than him at the beginning of the year
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bennett View Post
I don't know about that, I may disagree with you there - I wouldn't take Ebbett over hogson on most nights...

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