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Swiss NLA overtakes Sweden in attendance

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:48 PM
  #26
doubleaxes
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NLA has improved attendance 4 times in 6 years since 2007. This year record is due to partly lockout and counting of sold season cards by Lugano(+14.55%) and Ambri(+37,8%).
All clubs have increased only Kloten for internal problems during all summer(was saved from bankrupt) and Fribourg with lowering standing section for security have slightly decreased.

These are great numbers counting the fact that all games where televised with the new TV deal.

EHBIEL is building a new 7000 arena for 2015, Fribourg/Geneva are planing an extension.

If Lausanne makes it to NLA they can bring sold out of 9000+ and average of 6/7 K. replacing Lakers or Ambri/Langnau/Kloten.
If Olten does it, they will have to update their Arena sooner or later. OLTEN is right in the middle of a dense population. Now in NLB PO with around 5K per game.
Langenthal has the problem of being the forth club in the Berne canton but they should reach numbers lower as Biel or Langnau Tigers.

Pespective are good for hockey attendance in Switzerland and the game is always more popular.

Hope it translate also in more active licensed players. Increase to 30/35k FROM 25k would be a giant step pursued now by SIHF. There is margin as ice hockey is only in 6Th position in licensed sport in CH far behind football/soccer.

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03-13-2013, 04:58 AM
  #27
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European regular season attendance figures 2012-13

I'm not sure if this is the right place...

Here are the Attendance figures in European hockey leagues 2012/2013. Of course you can't compare them to NHL figures, because of the lower prices (standing room!) and all, but it's still fun to see that the Islanders wouldn't even crack the top 3.


http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...ash=85da1c3b06

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03-13-2013, 05:34 AM
  #28
TheNeutrality
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=891118

It's already being discussed on the "Hockey Talk by Country " board. Isn't really a fit for the NHL Talk, imo.

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03-13-2013, 06:30 AM
  #29
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The SEL is better off without locked out NHLers!

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03-13-2013, 07:49 AM
  #30
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The attendance figures suggest that there is a lot of hockey interest in Switzerland and Germany.

Two Questions:
1. How come these countries are not producing as many NHL players?
2. How come they do not perform that well in the Olympics?

I know Switzerland is pretty competitive in the Olympics; they tend to put up a good fight. But Germany in particular is pretty weak -- especially when considering their large population.

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03-13-2013, 08:13 AM
  #31
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We are 8 million people. To be good in NHL you have got to have the size AND the talent.
There are few swiss player that have both: and every single one of them can play at a net wage (after taxation) of at minimum 350'000+$. This in a League with 50 game in RS, a lot of time for your family and friends and the possibility to sleep in your bed at your home every night.

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03-13-2013, 08:23 AM
  #32
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Kometa Brno at 99.94 % of capacity, 4th year in a row...we definitely need bigger stadium

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03-13-2013, 08:45 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
The attendance figures suggest that there is a lot of hockey interest in Switzerland and Germany.

Two Questions:
1. How come these countries are not producing as many NHL players?
2. How come they do not perform that well in the Olympics?

I know Switzerland is pretty competitive in the Olympics; they tend to put up a good fight. But Germany in particular is pretty weak -- especially when considering their large population.
The big population is the point. Getting decent attendance figures is not that hard in Germany. Especially when 3 or 4 clubs (Berlin, Cologne, Mannheim and to a lesser extent Hamburg) boost the average with their attendance figures.

The problem is to get more kids into playing the game. And when you look at the number of players in Germany it is not that surprising that we lack quality players. The number of rinks relative to the population is also pretty pathetic.

Now add incompetent leadership, often mediocre coaching and questionable structures in youth hockey, and hockey in general, and you get why we are who we are when it comes to hockey.

It is all about football here and that's not going to change. There is still a lot that could be done for improvement, but that takes us back to the leadership issue.


Last edited by Maverick41: 03-13-2013 at 08:55 AM.
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Old
03-13-2013, 09:02 AM
  #34
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Medvescak felt to 14th place after last season's 12th. Still very good numbers.

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03-13-2013, 09:36 AM
  #35
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The attendance numbers of this regular season for teams and leagues:

Top 10 Teams
1. SC Bern, Switzerland- 16'330
2. Dinamo Minsk, Belarus- 14'299
3. Eisbären Berlin, Germany- 14'034
4. Kölner Haie, Germany- 12'199
5. SKA St. Petersburg, Russia- 11'917
6. Adler Mannheim, Germany- 10'796
7. Slovan Bratislava, Slovakia- 9'975
8. Jokerit Helsinki, Finland - 9'828
9. ZSC Lions, Switzerland- 8'745
10. Lokomotiv Jaroslawl, Russia- 8'712

League averages:
1. NLA, Switzerland- 6'620
2. DEL, Germany- 6'172
3. KHL, Russia - 6'106
4. Elitserien, Sweden- 5'717
5. SM-Liiga, Finland - 5'213

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03-13-2013, 10:29 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissGrog View Post
We are 8 million people. To be good in NHL you have got to have the size AND the talent.
There are few swiss player that have both: and every single one of them can play at a net wage (after taxation) of at minimum 350'000+$. This in a League with 50 game in RS, a lot of time for your family and friends and the possibility to sleep in your bed at your home every night.
That makes a lot of sense. I did not know that Swiss hockey players get paid so much. Plus, Switzerland is a beautiful and highly developed country. I can see a player in Magnitogorsk, for example, wanting to play in North America even with that kind of salary. But Switzerland seems like an amazing place to live in. (No offense to anyone from Magnitogorsk)

But still, the population aspect isn't a big excuse; 8 million puts you guys right in between Sweden and Finland. But yeah, Switzerland always puts up a good fight in the Olympics; many close matches. Hopefully they see some success soon in that regard. And of course, Sweden and Finland had a big head start in terms of hockey.

Do you think a Swiss star in the NHL would make a difference? It seemed like players like Salming made a difference in Sweden. Brunner looks like he's going to be great for the Red Wings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick41 View Post
The big population is the point. Getting decent attendance figures is not that hard in Germany. Especially when 3 or 4 clubs (Berlin, Cologne, Mannheim and to a lesser extent Hamburg) boost the average with their attendance figures.

The problem is to get more kids into playing the game. And when you look at the number of players in Germany it is not that surprising that we lack quality players. The number of rinks relative to the population is also pretty pathetic.

Now add incompetent leadership, often mediocre coaching and questionable structures in youth hockey, and hockey in general, and you get why we are who we are when it comes to hockey.

It is all about football here and that's not going to change. There is still a lot that could be done for improvement, but that takes us back to the leadership issue.
I hope Germany is able to establish more rinks and get better leadership for hockey. With such massive population and wealth, Germany has the potential to be a major hockey power. And the attendance figures for teams like Berlin is awesome.

Is Germany improving? Do you see it heading in the right direction? Or is it kind of stagnating? Would a German star player in the NHL make a difference?

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03-13-2013, 11:25 AM
  #37
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Congratulations to NLA to all time record.

I dont think that average attendance is ideal way how to compare leagues. Yes, it is one source of info, but we can look at number of clubs in TOP 20 etc as well. Leagues with small arenas/cities have disadvantage. KHL is no.1 in this list.


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03-13-2013, 12:02 PM
  #38
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Attendance in Europe appears to remain pretty strong. If you compare the numbers from 5 and 10 years ago it also seems to be trending in the right direction. Obviously, and for a number of reasons, nowhere near the NHL but when compared to figures from other 'indoor' sports that are popular in Europe, like basketball (a sport considered by some to be destined to take a run at soccer) and handball, hockey is doing really well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Is Germany improving? Do you see it heading in the right direction? Or is it kind of stagnating? Would a German star player in the NHL make a difference?
Not in any way German (or European) but generally speaking, while it certainly doesn't hurt, I don't think having an "NHL star" or two has a huge impact on the popularity of the sport in a given country. If you look at the countries where hockey is most popular it was popular long before it started sending talent who would become stars to the NHL. I think more often than not a country producing a great hockey player is a symptom of the sport already being reasonably popular and not a catalyst to the sport becoming popular.

I think for hockey to become popular/mainstream a country needs one of two things and preferably both:

-A competitive, stable, interesting domestic league.
-A competitive national team.

So as I type this I guess what a country really needs is at least a handful of stable, well run, well supported professional clubs that produce talent. If you have that you should be able to have both a decent domestic league and a continuous stream of good players for the national team.

I don’t think the above is really unique to hockey though. It probably applies to all sports, especially team sports. One problem with hockey though is if a player does make it big in NA, given the time difference and distance, it isn’t all that easy for someone in Europe to follow them.

German posters here seem pretty knowledgable (at least to someone as ignorant as myself ) and generally give a pretty bleak picture of things. One thing I have noticed though and is probably more important to German hockey than producing a single NHL star is that the amount of German trained players contributing in the DEL seems to be trending up.

From another thread…

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolForumNamePending View Post
Not to take this totally off topic...

I get that missing out on the Olympics is bad and from what I gather just about everything related to German hockey is a basketcase but are things totally hopeless?

I did a quick count and one thing I have noticed is that this year there were over 30 predominantly German trained players (might be wrong on a couple) who finished in the top 100 in DEL scoring. A decade ago there was only about 10 and 5 years ago less than 20. Perhaps some of this can be contributed to a lower import limit (I don't know if it has changed) or more talented imports going to different leagues, but even so isn't the fact that more German players, even if the level of play in the league might have dropped a bit, are getting a chance to play a significant role in the DEL a positive sign?
So anyway… That’s my uneducated opinion on things.

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03-14-2013, 02:51 AM
  #39
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Not a great measurment at all. Finland has 5,2 mil people and we have a league of 14 teams. And then there are a few teams like saipa that bring the average down quite a lot. If there was a team like vaasan sport from Mestis it would be better too. So pretty useless, but good for Nla.

The attendace figures will definetly rise a lot when Tampere gets its new super arena which is built on a train station a bit like madison squergard. Tampere hosts two teams in the league.

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03-14-2013, 03:06 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brun0 View Post
Not a great measurment at all. Finland has 5,2 mil people and we have a league of 14 teams. And then there are a few teams like saipa that bring the average down quite a lot. If there was a team like vaasan sport from Mestis it would be better too. So pretty useless, but good for Nla.

The attendace figures will definetly rise a lot when Tampere gets its new super arena which is built on a train station a bit like madison squergard. Tampere hosts two teams in the league.
Quote:
Biggest project at the moment is Tampere Central Arena + highrises. They have never built anything like this before to Tampere. Architect Daniel Libeskind have made the main plans. Arena will take over 11.000 spectators + 3000 during concerts. Ice hockey World Championships 2013 will be played in the new Arena. It will be located above railroad, on the deck, next to railwaystation.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1329737
seems to be not true anymore. When is arena built?

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03-14-2013, 03:12 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1329737
seems to be not true anymore. When is arena built?
http://www.aamulehti.fi/cs/Satellite...i+ajoissa.html

There is a picture and the plan has been approved. They are starting the building 2014 and its supposed to be ready 2016. So it gor dealyed a bit.

http://yle.fi/urheilu/hifklle_uusi_h...garden/6374749

Also Hifk Helsinki planning a new super arena which supposed to be reeady in 2016.

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03-14-2013, 03:29 AM
  #42
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thx, any more projects of new arenas in SM-Liiga and Elitserien? Btw, I dont like capacity of 11000, it is too small nowadays. New arenas should increase attendance rate of both leagues.

There is rumour about finnish KHL team, so good that new arenas are built, but it is OT here

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03-14-2013, 10:53 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
thx, any more projects of new arenas in SM-Liiga and Elitserien? Btw, I dont like capacity of 11000, it is too small nowadays. New arenas should increase attendance rate of both leagues.

There is rumour about finnish KHL team, so good that new arenas are built, but it is OT here
11000 is too big for like, 70% of Elitserien. The hockey interested cities are too small. You have to remember that in the big cities football is the mainsport by far. Who do you want to fill the arenas of the teams when they aren't even on full capacity with 6000-7000 seats?

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03-14-2013, 12:53 PM
  #44
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Frölunda is realistically the only Elitserien club that could fill an arena significantly bigger than 12k on a regular basis, and that's really only when the club is good.

I guess we'll see what path the city council, GotEvent, Frölunda and all the other involved parties decide to go down once they decide to replace Scandinavium, whether they'll go for a major renovation with only a slight increase in capacity of if they decide to go for a brand new, NHL-style 18k+ capacity arena.

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03-14-2013, 04:12 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
That makes a lot of sense. I did not know that Swiss hockey players get paid so much. Plus, Switzerland is a beautiful and highly developed country. I can see a player in Magnitogorsk, for example, wanting to play in North America even with that kind of salary. But Switzerland seems like an amazing place to live in. (No offense to anyone from Magnitogorsk)

But still, the population aspect isn't a big excuse; 8 million puts you guys right in between Sweden and Finland. But yeah, Switzerland always puts up a good fight in the Olympics; many close matches. Hopefully they see some success soon in that regard. And of course, Sweden and Finland had a big head start in terms of hockey.

Do you think a Swiss star in the NHL would make a difference? It seemed like players like Salming made a difference in Sweden. Brunner looks like he's going to be great for the Red Wings.
We already have Streit still an All-Star player and captain of the Islanders. Without forgetting two stanley cup winner (both goalies, Gerber with Anaheim and Aebischer with Colorado).

But you are right, until now we always lacked a star forward. Brunner and then Niederreiter could maybe pave the way.

A comparison with both Sweden and Finland makes only sense number-wise, but it's not really possible. For instance in Switzerland is very difficult to get the passport and of the 8 million people 1.7 million (22%) are NOT swiss and are mostly Germans, Italians, Balcanic and so on, also people with a strong soccer and not hockey culture. They cannot of course play for our national team.

Second: Swedish people are huge. The average height of men is much higher than the swiss men, meaning that is much easier to find the combination size+talent ( 1.815 m (5 ft 11.5 inches) in sweden against 1.754 m (5 ft 9 in) in switzerland).

Third: geographic. Sweden and Finland have a lot of natural ice on many different lakes, in Switzerland is almost non-existent. My hometown's team, HC Lugano, was founded around a small lake that in the 40's was always, consistently frozen. Now from the '80 it is always impossible to skate, the ice is too thin or not-existent (thanks global warming!).

So yeah, that are some reason

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03-14-2013, 04:48 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissGrog View Post
We already have Streit still an All-Star player and captain of the Islanders. Without forgetting two stanley cup winner (both goalies, Gerber with Anaheim and Aebischer with Colorado).

But you are right, until now we always lacked a star forward. Brunner and then Niederreiter could maybe pave the way.

A comparison with both Sweden and Finland makes only sense number-wise, but it's not really possible. For instance in Switzerland is very difficult to get the passport and of the 8 million people 1.7 million (22%) are NOT swiss and are mostly Germans, Italians, Balcanic and so on, also people with a strong soccer and not hockey culture. They cannot of course play for our national team.

Second: Swedish people are huge. The average height of men is much higher than the swiss men, meaning that is much easier to find the combination size+talent ( 1.815 m (5 ft 11.5 inches) in sweden against 1.754 m (5 ft 9 in) in switzerland).

Third: geographic. Sweden and Finland have a lot of natural ice on many different lakes, in Switzerland is almost non-existent. My hometown's team, HC Lugano, was founded around a small lake that in the 40's was always, consistently frozen. Now from the '80 it is always impossible to skate, the ice is too thin or not-existent (thanks global warming!).

So yeah, that are some reason
Gerber won SC with Carolina, not Anaheim.

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03-14-2013, 09:23 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
thx, any more projects of new arenas in SM-Liiga and Elitserien? Btw, I dont like capacity of 11000, it is too small nowadays. New arenas should increase attendance rate of both leagues.

There is rumour about finnish KHL team, so good that new arenas are built, but it is OT here
Most arenas being used by any team of significance are pretty modern, even if they come in moderate sizes for the most part(5000-8500). There's not really enough people to support any bigger arenas where the best hockey teams are located in Sweden. None of the #3, #4, #5 or #6 city by population has a team in the SEL.

What's really missing though is a new hockey arena in Stockholm. It's pretty sad how both clubs are using an arena built something like 50 years ago with smaller renovations. But it's a football city, they just built one 50k and one 30k arena like it's nothing. It's a shame they can't build anything of that significance for hockey.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:39 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
thx, any more projects of new arenas in SM-Liiga and Elitserien? Btw, I dont like capacity of 11000, it is too small nowadays. New arenas should increase attendance rate of both leagues.

There is rumour about finnish KHL team, so good that new arenas are built, but it is OT here
Why the focus on size? Modern arenas tend to be smaller since the focus is on seats and VIP facilities, while in the past most of the crowd was standing. It's about income, not attendance.

You have to remember that a lot of teams play in small towns where it doesn't make sense to have 10000+ arenas.

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03-15-2013, 05:28 AM
  #49
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I know what cities play Elitserien, dont worry. My point was to ask people, who follow Elitserien/SM-Liiga or NLA (best euro leagues IMO), if there is chance clubs will build new modern arenas.

Why? KHL will get new cca 11+ arenas for 12/15 000 in next 5 yrs, some of them above 18/20 000. I know, these cities does not have 30 000 inhabitants. On the other hand they can lure players from euro leagues, new arenas will help them.

If euro leagues want to rival KHL, they have to make money.. from ticketing at first. VIP is nice thing, but bigger arena-more room for VIP boxes.

TOP 20 euro clubs attendance

04/05 - Elitserien had 5 clubs on this list
- RSL (now KHL) had 3

12/13 - Elitserien has 1 club
- KHL has 8


TOP 50 euro clubs attendance

09/10 - Elitserien had 9 clubs on this list
- KHL had 12

12/13 - Elitserien has 8 clubs
- KHL has 16

Elitserien has decreased, KHL has increased.

Someone would say that KHL is not comparable to Elitserien (more clubs, more states, bigger cities). Ok, agree. I will compare Elitserien and NLA. Both countries has similar population, or Sweden has more, maybe all big suiss cities are in NLA which is not case of Elitserien like someone wrote earlier? Who knows, I dont think it is a big factor.

TOP 20 euro clubs attendance

04/05 - Elitserien had 5 clubs on this list
- NLA had 1

12/13 - Elitserien has 1 club
- NLA has 2 (ok Djurgaarden is Allsvenskan now)


TOP 50 euro clubs attendance

09/10 - Elitserien had 9 clubs on this list
- NLA had 6

12/13 - Elitserien has 8 clubs
- NLA has 7

In TOP 50 Elitserien has decreased, NLA not.

Average attendance

08/09 - Elitserien 6 260
- NLA 6 073
- KHL 5 097


12/13 - Elitserien 5 717 (ok, Djurgaarden, so use record from 11/12 , so 6 385)

- NLA 6 620
- KHL 6 106 (best 12 clubs 8 335)


NLA, KHL have increased every season, Elitserien not. I just want to know if there is potential for grow in euro leagues. I am sure KHL has potential for growing. Not sure about other leagues. Number of fans at arenas is not the main factor of league´s popularity, but says a lot.

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Old
03-15-2013, 07:50 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brun0 View Post
http://www.aamulehti.fi/cs/Satellite...i+ajoissa.html

There is a picture and the plan has been approved. They are starting the building 2014 and its supposed to be ready 2016. So it gor dealyed a bit.

http://yle.fi/urheilu/hifklle_uusi_h...garden/6374749

Also Hifk Helsinki planning a new super arena which supposed to be ready in 2016.
That was a very optimistic date. The bureaucratic process alone with all the possible complaints will delay building at least by a year or two.

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