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Old
03-13-2013, 11:58 PM
  #1
Tom.H
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Two Mind Sets

The team hasn't been playing up to the standards that they have been playing in the last few years. Yet I am still of the opinion that they could still be contenders if they become healthy and go all in on the trade front, even at the risk of possibly sacrificing the future for the present.
I think this way mainly because I think their window of winning the cup is closing soon and if Gillis is serious about winning the cup, this year needs to be the focus.
I have heard of possible centers who could help the Canucks; yet I haven't heard of anybody I think will actually make them cup contenders.
I am not sure what it would take to get a player or players without gutting the team. But this is the kind of move I think they need to have a chance at the cup.

If on the other hand, Gillis is convinced that the window is closed. Then there is no sense just making minor deals to hopefully fill a need.
I think if Gillis has this mind set, he should be a seller to gain high draft picks and or younger players for the future.

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03-14-2013, 12:09 AM
  #2
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If I were Gillis I would do the following.

3rd line center (Signing or minor trade)

2nd line scorer (Luongo trade for ???)

Power moving Dman (Ballard and a pick for Vishnovsky)

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03-14-2013, 04:47 AM
  #3
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How about this, we have great players on our roster. We are winning our division. We are coming off back to back President trophies.

Let's try and improve our team in any way possible to try and win a Cup because there is a lot of time to rebuild later.

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03-14-2013, 07:08 AM
  #4
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Florida has Zach Hamill in the minors. Washington has Ryan Potulny in the minors. This is the type of player Gillis should target, sooner rather than later. I say this because I do not think the team has any spares and I do not think they should trade away their picks. Waivers has been more active since the new CBA, anyway.

I do not think the defense needs fixing, just Bieksa and some games to settle in.


Last edited by JuniorNelson: 03-14-2013 at 07:09 AM. Reason: added D comment.
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03-14-2013, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Florida has Zach Hamill in the minors. Washington has Ryan Potulny in the minors. This is the type of player Gillis should target, sooner rather than later. I say this because I do not think the team has any spares and I do not think they should trade away their picks. Waivers has been more active since the new CBA, anyway.

I do not think the defense needs fixing, just Bieksa and some games to settle in.
He should target crappy AHL players who are worse than Andrew Ebbett?

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03-15-2013, 02:00 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Florida has Zach Hamill in the minors. Washington has Ryan Potulny in the minors. This is the type of player Gillis should target, sooner rather than later. I say this because I do not think the team has any spares and I do not think they should trade away their picks. Waivers has been more active since the new CBA, anyway.

I do not think the defense needs fixing, just Bieksa and some games to settle in.
Better players pass through waivers each day that I'd take way before players that would be lucky to see the daylight on the NHL again.

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03-15-2013, 02:16 AM
  #7
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A 3C would be the most obvious need. Schroeder isn't quite ready, Lapierre has issues when given too much ice time and Ebbett is more of a stop-gap measure.

The problem with loading up now is that the team is in for a cap-crunch next season. If we do make additions, we either have to send salary the other way, or pick up an expiring contract. How much do we want to spend on a rental, and what do we have left in the system to trade that has much value? I don't see MG moving Kassian, Jensen, Schneider or a 1st round pick for a rental, it doesn't seem to be his M.O. I think MG makes a minor addition at the deadline, and hopes that the team gels and that AV can straighten up their play without the puck.

I just see this season as an outlier. 48 games, no preseason, compact schedule. Stumbles in the standings are magnified, and a hot start makes you untouchable. I think in a 82 game schedule, Chicago and Anaheim would regress slightly but probably still finish north of 100 points, no way would they finish with 140 like they are on pace for at the moment.

One positive so far for the Canucks, only 7 regulation losses, only the Blackhawks, Ducks, Canucks and Sharks are below 10 in the west.

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03-17-2013, 10:28 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
How about this, we have great players on our roster. We are winning our division. We are coming off back to back President trophies.

Let's try and improve our team in any way possible to try and win a Cup because there is a lot of time to rebuild later.
So does this include going all out and trading 1st and 2nd round picks, or perhaps even some 1st or 2nd line players in order to get player/s this year hoping to get better?
Would you be willing to trade someone like Kesler away?

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03-17-2013, 10:30 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by canucksrool View Post
If I were Gillis I would do the following.

3rd line center (Signing or minor trade)

2nd line scorer (Luongo trade for ???)

Power moving Dman (Ballard and a pick for Vishnovsky)
stahp with the Viz-Ballard proposals

The only reason why NYI acquired Viz is because Wang is a cheapstake and loves the fact his actual salary is lower than the cap hit. There's no reason he'd trade him away without getting a big overpayment.

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03-17-2013, 11:10 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
stahp with the Viz-Ballard proposals

The only reason why NYI acquired Viz is because Wang is a cheapstake and loves the fact his actual salary is lower than the cap hit. There's no reason he'd trade him away without getting a big overpayment.
He's going back to the KHL after this season (or so all reports say). They trade him or they get nothing. The reason Wang acquired Thomas' hollow $5m contract is so he could move guys like Visnovsky at the deadline without going under the cap.

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03-17-2013, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom.H View Post
So does this include going all out and trading 1st and 2nd round picks, or perhaps even some 1st or 2nd line players in order to get player/s this year hoping to get better?
Would you be willing to trade someone like Kesler away?
Who replaces Kesler? Trading Kesler is pointless unless you are planning on a 3 or 4 year rebuild.

As for the rest, I'd include firsts for young RFA guys for sure. Basically just speeding up the draft so to speak. 2nds, 3rds/weaker prospects for filler (ie Goc because he'd be cheapish to aquire and cheaper to run $1.7m for another season) sure.

I'd deal players if it is clear the season is done by the deadline (ie plague of long term injuries to key players). I'd move some of the UFAs.

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03-17-2013, 11:26 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
Who replaces Kesler? Trading Kesler is pointless unless you are planning on a 3 or 4 year rebuild.

As for the rest, I'd include firsts for young RFA guys for sure. Basically just speeding up the draft so to speak. 2nds, 3rds/weaker prospects for filler (ie Goc because he'd be cheapish to aquire and cheaper to run $1.7m for another season) sure.

I'd deal players if it is clear the season is done by the deadline (ie plague of long term injuries to key players). I'd move some of the UFAs.

Just so you know I wasn't actually suggesting trading Kesler. I agree with you unless of course we could get someone like Tavares back in a package.

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03-18-2013, 10:05 AM
  #13
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I think it would be foolish for Gillis to go all in this year, personally.

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03-18-2013, 10:11 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
I think it would be foolish for Gillis to go all in this year, personally.
So hard to say, can you really pick one year over another as a better opportunity? look at the Kings last year. Theoretically the Canucks could be set up like this going into the playoffs:

a) D set, gelled and performing well with set pairings
b) All Forwards back healthy and ready to go
c) All slumps busted (Burrows, PP, PK, D. Sedin, Edler etc.) and humming
d) Coming in on a roll (typical time for Canucks to start rolling)
e) Young players legs finally under them (Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen(?), Lain(?)) with rolls and lines defined

That's a distinct possibility, team is too talented/deep (when healthy) for most if not all of the above to happen. Really... short of a twin or a goalie getting a season ending injury (knock, knock, knock) it can't get much worse for the 'Nucks.

IF Gillis/AV are projecting a turnaround based on that list above in most of the areas above why wouldn't you ad pieces?

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03-18-2013, 10:35 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by petrishriekandgo View Post
So hard to say, can you really pick one year over another as a better opportunity? look at the Kings last year. Theoretically the Canucks could be set up like this going into the playoffs:

a) D set, gelled and performing well with set pairings
b) All Forwards back healthy and ready to go
c) All slumps busted (Burrows, PP, PK, D. Sedin, Edler etc.) and humming
d) Coming in on a roll (typical time for Canucks to start rolling)
e) Young players legs finally under them (Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen(?), Lain(?)) with rolls and lines defined

That's a distinct possibility, team is too talented/deep (when healthy) for most if not all of the above to happen. Really... short of a twin or a goalie getting a season ending injury (knock, knock, knock) it can't get much worse for the 'Nucks.

IF Gillis/AV are projecting a turnaround based on that list above in most of the areas above why wouldn't you ad pieces?
Following that logic, AV needs to be replaced a la Murray for Sutter.

My two cents: this team has gone through a bit of an identity crisis this season with the depletion at center. It's affected their defensive coverage and the PP the most, but in other aspects as well. So long as we make the playoffs, and I think the chances are still good that we do (thank goodness for the craptastic NW), all of that soul-searching and adversity could work in our favor in the postseason.

Why?

Because the playoffs are a sprint. The team that's playing the hottest that has enough depth to overcome line-matching and injuries usually wins. The past two seasons, IMHO, the team developed bad habits because they were maybe too well-suited to dominate in the regular season. They could count on a killer PK and PP, stellar goaltending and playing teams that never got a chance to seriously scout them.

Well, not this season. This season it'll be a down to the wire dogfight to make it in. They'll hopefully be getting some healthy bodies back right around that time. And if things start clicking, there's nothing that buoys the spirits more than to finally start winning after a season of tribulations. Teams like that tend to be a very tough out in the playoffs and I hope the timing is right for that to happen.

That and a legitimate 3rd line center. Good God we need one of those.

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:22 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
How about this, we have great players on our roster. We are winning our division. We are coming off back to back President trophies.

Let's try and improve our team in any way possible to try and win a Cup because there is a lot of time to rebuild later.
I don't think its worth it considering the injuries. I am more in favor of a Philly type rebuild. Trade Kesler and Schnieder and maybe a core D man for some proven prospects or good impact players.

Common... We might make the playoffs and we will get bounced at some point and deep down, we will all know it was because of injuries.

Lets not kid ourselves. There is no way we can beat Minnesota, Chicago, Anehiem or LA with this broken lineup.

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03-18-2013, 11:43 AM
  #17
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Who replaces Kesler? Trading Kesler is pointless unless you are planning on a 3 or 4 year rebuild.
Somebody will take him and we could possibly replace him with someone with the same caliber who will not be as injury prone.

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03-18-2013, 11:47 AM
  #18
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I don't think its worth it considering the injuries. I am more in favor of a Philly type rebuild. Trade Kesler and Schnieder and maybe a core D man for some proven prospects or good impact players.

Common... We might make the playoffs and we will get bounced at some point and deep down, we will all know it was because of injuries.

Lets not kid ourselves. There is no way we can beat Minnesota, Chicago, Anehiem or LA with this broken lineup.
Really? That sounds more like a guy that fell off the bandwagon but I guess you are being sarcastic given where Philly is right now.

If you want to be more like LA (from last year), retool by adding a piece that you are missing (in this case a 2nd line offensive centre), replace the coach to bring a new message, get your injured guys back and try to win a Cup.

The idea that we can't beat Minnesota, Chicago, Anaheim, or LA is a joke since we've beaten all of them this year with our broken lineup.

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03-18-2013, 11:50 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by petrishriekandgo View Post
So hard to say, can you really pick one year over another as a better opportunity? look at the Kings last year. Theoretically the Canucks could be set up like this going into the playoffs:

a) D set, gelled and performing well with set pairings
b) All Forwards back healthy and ready to go
c) All slumps busted (Burrows, PP, PK, D. Sedin, Edler etc.) and humming
d) Coming in on a roll (typical time for Canucks to start rolling)
e) Young players legs finally under them (Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen(?), Lain(?)) with rolls and lines defined

That's a distinct possibility, team is too talented/deep (when healthy) for most if not all of the above to happen. Really... short of a twin or a goalie getting a season ending injury (knock, knock, knock) it can't get much worse for the 'Nucks.

IF Gillis/AV are projecting a turnaround based on that list above in most of the areas above why wouldn't you ad pieces?
We all thought Kesler and Booth would be set to go after the first injuries.

There is no way they will be good enough after their recoveries this time.

Its over for this year, plain and simple. Players never perform 100% after injuries, especially playoff hockey.

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03-18-2013, 11:58 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Really? That sounds more like a guy that fell off the bandwagon but I guess you are being sarcastic given where Philly is right now.

If you want to be more like LA (from last year), retool by adding a piece that you are missing (in this case a 2nd line offensive centre), replace the coach to bring a new message, get your injured guys back and try to win a Cup.

The idea that we can't beat Minnesota, Chicago, Anaheim, or LA is a joke since we've beaten all of them this year with our broken lineup.
Injury prone players need to be dumped. That is my point. We don't want Kelser anymore. Make a lateral move for him. Radim Verbata plus someone for him.

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03-18-2013, 12:26 PM
  #21
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Injury prone players need to be dumped. That is my point. We don't want Kelser anymore. Make a lateral move for him. Radim Verbata plus someone for him.
When the Hodgson trade happened I said they traded the wrong center then, Kesler should have been the one to go exactly because of his injury issues and his high value at that point. THAT would have been the bold move that could have put us over the top.

But it didn't happen and we're where we are now... something still has to happen but we have only diminishing assets to deal at this point and the goalie market that we thought we had cornered has suddenly become a buyers market.

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03-18-2013, 02:26 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by petrishriekandgo View Post
When the Hodgson trade happened I said they traded the wrong center then, Kesler should have been the one to go exactly because of his injury issues and his high value at that point. THAT would have been the bold move that could have put us over the top.

But it didn't happen and we're where we are now... something still has to happen but we have only diminishing assets to deal at this point and the goalie market that we thought we had cornered has suddenly become a buyers market.
I would have totally supported that. I also wanted to move Raymond rather then Grabner.

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03-18-2013, 02:37 PM
  #23
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I would have totally supported that. I also wanted to move Raymond rather then Grabner.
Yah... but Raymond is a MUCH better defensive player. I'd say it's a wash really. Bottom line is that Grabner would have rode the pine far more than he would have been on the ice with AV.

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03-18-2013, 02:47 PM
  #24
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Yah... but Raymond is a MUCH better defensive player. I'd say it's a wash really. Bottom line is that Grabner would have rode the pine far more than he would have been on the ice with AV.
I think there would have been love/hate thing going on with Grabner and AV.

AV would be forced to play Grabs to get goals.

We shouldn't have traded any of them obviously. Ray and Grabs would have been the fastest pair in the league.

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03-18-2013, 04:45 PM
  #25
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I don't really feel like we've seen "the Vancouver Canucks" this season, it's been a bit of an interim team, a temp team playing so far this season. Just have to do enough to get by, not wear everyone out and manage to get in the playoffs, try to make some noise. Peoples' expectations of this team do not match what the lineup looks like these days, they are not icing a Cup-caliber lineup right now, not even close. People need to accept that it's not gonna be pretty the rest of the way, this season is an ugly, malformed thing that probably should have just been put down, but we still have to make a go of it.

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