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Thank Holmgren for the Flyers Poor Performance

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Old
03-14-2013, 04:24 AM
  #26
Giroux tha Damaja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MISC View Post
Edler
Raymond
1st

for

Simmonds
Coburn
This is pretty tempting. If I were going to move those players at all, it wouldn't take anymore value than this coming back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Well, in yet other words, we are talking about a young second pairing puck moving D-man for a young second line winger.

Also, you can have one of these to even out any discrepancy:

I want to dismiss this quickly also, but alas the monkey is tempting.

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Old
03-14-2013, 04:35 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
This is pretty tempting. If I were going to move those players at all, it wouldn't take anymore value than this coming back.


.
Thanks, brah. Faxing paperwork over now.

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Old
03-14-2013, 06:28 AM
  #28
Kimota
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Losing Pronger has been a big blow.

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Old
03-14-2013, 06:34 AM
  #29
damicius
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Losing Pronger has been a big blow.
and its not a GMs fault. If you want to be a cup contender and there is a salary cap, you just cant have a backup plans. there is another 29 teams. So Holmgren put everything on the Pronger card and now and he lost, but it was still a good decision.

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Old
03-14-2013, 06:49 AM
  #30
n00bxQb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MISC View Post
Edler
Raymond
1st

for

Simmonds
Coburn
I sincerely hope you never become the GM of the Canucks.

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:14 AM
  #31
DJOpus
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If Philly had a goalie putting up a reasonable to good save% this thread wouldn't exist because Philly would be holding down a playoff spot.

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:23 AM
  #32
Snotbubbles
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Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
Bear in mind at the time Richards was traded, Doughty was still unsigned and Johnson was the cornerstone defenseman until Doughty was locked up. Voynov was also unproven. It wasn't until training camp, when Voynov filled in nicely during Doughty's absence, that the Kings brass were comfortable with calling him up and eventually shipping Johnson out.

So... the Flyers likely would not have been able to acquire Johnson at the time of the Richards trade. Pronger was also healthy at the time.

I still think the Flyers made a mistake by trading Richards and Carter, and instead gave the reigns to Pronger for leadership. However, I don't think it was necessarily a bad move on Holmgren's part not insisting on getting Johnson back at the time.
Both the Richards and Carter trades were beauties for Philly. I would do those again 100 times out of 100. The problem for Philly was that Pronger got injured and it left a massive hole at the #1D position that Philly never filled. Having Matt Carle might make the Flyers a 4-6 seed, but they would never be serious contenders. Sucking this year and landing a prospect that has #1D potential and then finding a replacement for Timonen next year and Philly will be serious Cup contenders for a long time and not just a playoff team that can win a round or two.

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:26 AM
  #33
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Kaberle has a great first pass and can be available for cheap. Though a short time fix even if he does work out.

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:42 AM
  #34
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I honestly think that Yandle is their best option, but for that to happen they're going to have to part with a piece that they may not want to. You have to give to get though. Something around Brayden Schenn/Couturier would work. If both of those are not options, it will be tough to get a deal done. Maybe Phoenix bites on Simmonds and the Flyers 2013 1st.

After that, sign a decent mid tier defenseman in free agency like a Hainsey, Rozsival, O'Byrne or White.

Perhaps that would be enough, but perhaps they do need a change in philosophy and a more defensive orientated coach might shore things up making their goaltending better.

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:47 AM
  #35
Teezax
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For the love of God it's HOLMGREN

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:55 AM
  #36
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As much as I hate Toronto, JVR, #2 overall has a much higher ceiling than Schenn. It is showing already.

JVR was not used properly in PHI and his talents were not respected. Schenn is good, but for #4 D man, 3 at best, for a top 3 FWD with size and skill was such a stupid trade.

Ugh I wish VAN got JVR

Paying Bryz that money after he choked in the first round of the playoffs that year was stupid as well.

GM needs to go.

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:55 AM
  #37
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I love these "the sky is falling threads". Anytime the Flyers have a down year, it turns into a catastrophe for the fan base. It's a little bit like the Yankees, but obviously without all the rings.

Take a deep breath and think for a second. This team is still pretty stacked moving forward. They have some of the best center depth in the league, featuring a superstar in Giroux, a great scoring and physical threat in Schenn on the second line, and a future elite shutdown guy in Couturier on the third line. How many teams can bolster center depth like that for arguably the next five to ten years?

Wing depth is a bit of an issue, but it's certainly not a problem. Hartnell is still young and has shown excellent chemistry with Giroux. Voracek is beginning to show why he was drafted so high in his draft class. At 23, his combination of skill, size, and speed are turning him into a star. Yes, he's that good. Simmonds is everything you want in a second line winger. He hits, fights, and can work people on the boards. It also doesn't hurt that he can pot 25-30 goals a year. Matt Read seems to be forgotten by a lot of Flyers fans, but I think he'll be resigned and continue to shine. He's Mr. Versatility for the team and is the Flyer's version of Patrick Sharp. That's an excellent top six group of wingers that will all be around for at least five years if the Flyers want them to be. After that, the flyers have some guys in the system who will fill out that bottom six winger role very nicely. Laughton and Cousins have both shown the type of grit that you want from guys in those third line roles, and they can both convert from center to winger at the NHL level.

The defense is actually in pretty good shape if they bring in a puckmover or two to help with their already punishing core. Guys like Schenn, Grossman, and Coburn make it tough on any offense with their size, and they can all move pretty well for how big and physical they are. (Yes leaf fans, even Schenn has become a better skater) Mez should be better, and they should let him walk, imo. Gus is still learning and looks like a solid puckmover that should develop nicely into a second pair guy to compliment a guy like Coburn or Grossman. They need a number one, but half the league could say that. My hopes is that a guy like Ghostisbehere develops and they can run three very balanced pairs until they can finally find a guy that can help offset the loss of Pronger (which is the biggest reason why this team is struggling... one injury)

Obviously Bryz needs to be better, but a lot of it comes from the coaching. Lavy needs to go. His system worked when most of the East was still using run and gun systems, but the conference has shifted to more counter-attack systems. They're built to exploit Lavy's gameplan of constant pressure, and often leave Bryz in no-man's land to take it on the chin. A more conservative coach would not only do the entire team wonders, but it would certainly help Bryz get back to his Phoenix form.

One thing being overlooked, is that this team also has a ton of options too. They can clear up a ton of salary if need be. Briere could be amnestied or traded (his contract numbers are great for some teams), Pronger can ride out his career on LTIR, and Bryz could also be amnestied and replaced by a stop-gap if need be until Stolarz is hopefully ready. The salary cap shouldn't be a huge concern moving forward if Homer plays it right.

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:57 AM
  #38
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We first need to teach the players its okay to lift the puck when shooting at the net, all they players seem to do is jam the puck through the defense and goalies. We also need to fire the strength and conditioning staff. Too many players can not stand up, they all can't skate or shoot. During last night's game against the Devils, Giroux, Hartnell, Talbot, and all the defense are all either falling down or don't have the strength to move the puck out of our zone. Whatever defensive zone coverage we have(all 5 players in front of the goalie) doesn't work; when you clear the puck there are no wingers available to move it to the neutral zone. As for player movement. Do not trade our first round this year unless getting a young goalie in return( Bernier, Lehner, or Schneider). All ufa are gone. I would try to trade Timonen for a pick at the deadline, Talbot at the deadline. Tell Briere if he does not waive his no trade clause, he will be bought out at end of season. Buy out Bryzgalov at the end of the year; yes he plays well sometimes but never comes up with timely saves. Let younger players play, I can at least live with mistakes from them, they are inexperienced. Hire a coach that will light a fire under Giroux, he wants to be a star, then play like one. Crosby, Stamkos, and the rest show up every night. This is not a short term problem, we need to realize our team sucks, and over the next 3-5 years get rid of the deadwood, and draft good players, especially defense. Mix up the type of defense we draft as well, not all need to large immovable players, get some that are mobile, and guys who can hit the net with a point shot. Since the cap is against us, we need to cut our losses and start over. Don't trade our young player for a quick fix so we make the playoffs.

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:59 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
Bear in mind at the time Richards was traded, Doughty was still unsigned and Johnson was the cornerstone defenseman until Doughty was locked up. Voynov was also unproven. It wasn't until training camp, when Voynov filled in nicely during Doughty's absence, that the Kings brass were comfortable with calling him up and eventually shipping Johnson out.

So... the Flyers likely would not have been able to acquire Johnson at the time of the Richards trade. Pronger was also healthy at the time.

I still think the Flyers made a mistake by trading Richards and Carter, and instead gave the reigns to Pronger for leadership. However, I don't think it was necessarily a bad move on Holmgren's part not insisting on getting Johnson back at the time.
You can make an argument around Richards if you want, but getting Couturier, Cousins and Voracek for Carter was highway robbery.

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:59 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defense View Post


Jake Gardiner



Sean Corturier

As a Leafs fan don't want to trade Gardiner but Leafs are not even bothering to utilize him. I think a blockbuster trade can be made between these 2 teams.
This deal makes complete sense. You want a top 4 guy who can control your PP, and bring the puck up the ice with absolute ease, then Gardiner is your guy.

I don't want to trade him unless its for a young player with as much potential as him and Couturier, IMO, will never perform offensively but I think he'll be a great C for Kessel as he's got the potential to shut down opposing players.

I know Couts isn't having a great year and is going through a slump but I'll still trade for him as I believe in his potential.

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:01 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
If Philly had a goalie putting up a reasonable to good save% this thread wouldn't exist because Philly would be holding down a playoff spot.
If you'd actually watch them play, you'd see that while Bryz isn't playing to the level of his contract, it's far more about the coverage in front of him.

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:05 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
Would something Ballard/Talbot-centric be worth talking about? Ballard has his shortcomings, but one thing he can do is a get a puck from one end of the ice to the other. If he doesn't pass until already in the offensive zone.
Wow, the Canuck fans are slipping . . . it took 9 posts before the Keith Ballard (he's great, REALLY, just misused) obligatory offer to pop up.


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Old
03-14-2013, 09:11 AM
  #43
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Liles might help a little. These days he probably could be had for a 3rd, so he's relatively cheap. Gardiner would be ideal, but Philly would have to overpay way more than they would want to. Byfuglien would seem a Flyers sort of player, but that might require even worse overpayment.

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:12 AM
  #44
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Don't forget the bryz signing, which many believe was the reason for the Carter/Richards trades

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:12 AM
  #45
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The Flyers have one of the best forward cores in the league, the problem is they have the worst goaltending depth, and their D depth is mediocre. Schenn and Grossman are the only two guys who played good consistently. It's obvious that lavis system doesn't work for that team, but it is up to Homer to correct that. Flyers need to get a solid young goalie who is just about to break out in a number one role, and they need to get some puck moving dman. In the offseason amnesty Briere and Bryz.

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:13 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
If Philly had a goalie putting up a reasonable to good save% this thread wouldn't exist because Philly would be holding down a playoff spot.
it's juss game vy you haff to be medd?

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:15 AM
  #47
Snotbubbles
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Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
I honestly think that Yandle is their best option, but for that to happen they're going to have to part with a piece that they may not want to. You have to give to get though. Something around Brayden Schenn/Couturier would work. If both of those are not options, it will be tough to get a deal done. Maybe Phoenix bites on Simmonds and the Flyers 2013 1st.

After that, sign a decent mid tier defenseman in free agency like a Hainsey, Rozsival, O'Byrne or White.

Perhaps that would be enough, but perhaps they do need a change in philosophy and a more defensive orientated coach might shore things up making their goaltending better.
Rather keep the young guys. If you want Couturier or Schenn, OEL needs to be coming the other way, not Yandle.

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:17 AM
  #48
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Thanks Paul!

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:17 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Losing Pronger has been a big blow.
But even acquiring him involved a gaffe. At the time the guy looked like a perfect fit for that team, but then they sign him to a contract that looks tailor made for retirement cap circumvention....only to find out someone didnt read the fine print on 35+ contracts.

I respect Holmgren's ability to make deals, but as far as everything else, he just seems like a mad man at the wheel, throwing away money without thinking twice. The Bryz situation and the Weber were perfect examples. Team has a hole at G/D? Well, rather than explore trade options or pick up someone underrated and cheap, just fork over a contract worth $51m/$110m and everything will be fine, right?

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:21 AM
  #50
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I don't watch a ton of Flyers games but they seem like a solidly built team. Have a good forward group, defense needs some work and Bryz has been fine (unless that's changed). Do think Briere(sp?) is not needed on the team anymore.

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