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Old
03-13-2013, 08:45 PM
  #876
jetkarma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
I absolutely disagree with this.

If you keep Hainsey and Antropov and they help us win a couple of playoff games, that is $$$ in True North's pocket. You add that to the 7+ million those players free up if they sign elsewhere and you are talking good money to resign a couple of veteran replacements.

This off season should be excellent for a team like Winnipeg who will have cap space and dollars to spend as teams work to become cap compliant.

The LA Kings showed you can do anything once you make the playoffs. So did the Canes (and the Oilers) in 06. Why rob Peter to pay Paul?

You get a couple of draft picks for Antro and Hainsey. Fine. What guarantee that those are going to become ANYTHING that helps this team?

The whole theory of 'getting something for an impending UFA' is overrated.
It would be great to make the playoffs , the city would so energized , spring here , playoff hockey ... just electric.

But the money while important has little to do with signing players. Jets make enough to operate by signing/getting players that fit and will help the team win . I don't see that extra revenue , again while positive would influence any signings.

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03-13-2013, 09:02 PM
  #877
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How is this even a debate?

2nd round pick...or playoffs.

I'll take playoffs thanks.

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03-13-2013, 09:05 PM
  #878
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how about 2nd Round pick + playoffs!

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03-13-2013, 09:41 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
How is this even a debate?

2nd round pick...or playoffs.

I'll take playoffs thanks.
So if we keep Hainsey, we make playoffs? I didn't think it was necessarily either/or.


Last edited by Stej: 03-13-2013 at 10:05 PM.
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03-13-2013, 09:46 PM
  #880
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As we inch closer and closer to a playoff spot, the price it will take to sell Hainsey goes up. It's getting to the point where a second rounder might not be enough.

If we could swing Hainsey and Chicago's 3rd for a 1st, I think we have to take that. No matter which team it is, there's always a chance they flame out in the first round and the pick is top 20.

For those wondering who takes Hainsey's minutes, he goes by Enstrom. If you can buy that we're a better team with Enstrom and without Hainsey than we are with Hainsey and without Enstrom, then it's possible that our team gets better in the short term while adding a first round pick.

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03-13-2013, 09:56 PM
  #881
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Yes the team without Hainsey and with Enstrom is better. But the best option is still with BOTH Hainsey and Enstrom.

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03-13-2013, 10:11 PM
  #882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
Yes the team without Hainsey and with Enstrom is better. But the best option is still with BOTH Hainsey and Enstrom.
Not trying to be a jerk, but you are stating the obvious and ignoring the value we pick up by trading Hainsey.

If Hainsey will not re-sign before the deadline, do people actually realize there are only 10 regular season games after the deadline? I would trade 10 regular season games plus maybe some playoff games of Ron Hainsey to trade up from a late 3rd round pick to a 1st round pick. But that's just me. And who knows, Hainsey might not even hold that much value.

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03-13-2013, 10:19 PM
  #883
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After disecting what might be available at the 12th or 15th pick, which is near where I believe the Jets might be picking, I believe that they should seriously be taking a look at this guy - Alexander Burkov - 6'2'', 205 lbs center with soft hands that would be able to feed Kane all night long.
Here's his bio: 'A very calm center who uses his vision well, Barkov has an excellent offensive game and good size. His very good passing and puckhandling combined with great hands and hockey sense make him a big offensive threat. He plays with high confidence and never seems to be under pressure. Barkov is a creative with a very solid overall package and the skill set to compensate for his below-average skating, making him one of the top prospects for the 2013 NHL Draft.'

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03-13-2013, 10:25 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by lablite47 View Post
After disecting what might be available at the 12th or 15th pick, which is near where I believe the Jets might be picking, I believe that they should seriously be taking a look at this guy - Alexander Burkov - 6'2'', 205 lbs center with soft hands that would be able to feed Kane all night long.
Here's his bio: 'A very calm center who uses his vision well, Barkov has an excellent offensive game and good size. His very good passing and puckhandling combined with great hands and hockey sense make him a big offensive threat. He plays with high confidence and never seems to be under pressure. Barkov is a creative with a very solid overall package and the skill set to compensate for his below-average skating, making him one of the top prospects for the 2013 NHL Draft.'
This guys?

He is awesome, but he will probably be a top 5 pick.

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03-13-2013, 10:32 PM
  #885
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This guys?

He is awesome, but he will probably be a top 5 pick.
Wow! Can you imagine him playing at MTS center!

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03-13-2013, 10:35 PM
  #886
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Indeed, if the wheels were to completely fall off and the Jets ended up bottom-5 in the league Barkov would be a wonderful consolation.

I'd love to get him but wouldn't get my hopes up.

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03-13-2013, 10:43 PM
  #887
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I'd be tempted to take hinm 1st overall... I don't think we should go for Jones as we have enough defencemen for the time being and Drouin and Mackinnon are 5'10 and 11 at 170ish. Not to mention that they are playing in the QMJHL which is, in MHO, in the weakest of all the junior leagues..

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03-13-2013, 10:44 PM
  #888
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Barkov is closer the the 1st pick than the 12th. It would be completely justifiable taking him first or second.

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:50 PM
  #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
I absolutely disagree with this.

If you keep Hainsey and Antropov and they help us win a couple of playoff games, that is $$$ in True North's pocket. You add that to the 7+ million those players free up if they sign elsewhere and you are talking good money to resign a couple of veteran replacements.

This off season should be excellent for a team like Winnipeg who will have cap space and dollars to spend as teams work to become cap compliant.

The LA Kings showed you can do anything once you make the playoffs. So did the Canes (and the Oilers) in 06. Why rob Peter to pay Paul?

You get a couple of draft picks for Antro and Hainsey. Fine. What guarantee that those are going to become ANYTHING that helps this team?

The whole theory of 'getting something for an impending UFA' is overrated.
There's no guarantee that keeping Hainsey and Antropov are going to get us INTO the playoffs let alone WIN a couple of games just like there's no guarantee that those picks become anything.

For one, we are not the Los Angeles Kings. I don't for one second believe this team has a magical cinderella run in it. More likely a 1st round a$$ whooping at the hands of the Penguins or even a quick 4 or 5 game exit to the Canadiens.

Jets just don't have the kind of depth required for a deep run. In a year or two that may change.

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:04 PM
  #890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lablite47 View Post
I'd be tempted to take hinm 1st overall... I don't think we should go for Jones as we have enough defencemen for the time being and Drouin and Mackinnon are 5'10 and 11 at 170ish. Not to mention that they are playing in the QMJHL which is, in MHO, in the weakest of all the junior leagues..
Is that the league Mario and Sid played in?

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:36 AM
  #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
There's no guarantee that keeping Hainsey and Antropov are going to get us INTO the playoffs let alone WIN a couple of games just like there's no guarantee that those picks become anything.

For one, we are not the Los Angeles Kings. I don't for one second believe this team has a magical cinderella run in it. More likely a 1st round a$$ whooping at the hands of the Penguins or even a quick 4 or 5 game exit to the Canadiens.

Jets just don't have the kind of depth required for a deep run. In a year or two that may change.
IMHO there is a far better chance having those two in the lineup help us win a couple playoff games then 2nd round picks do becoming meaningful NHL players.

If it looks like you are going to make the playoffs, you add depth, you don't subtract it. That sends a bad message to your players and your fans, and could very well hurt your bottom line.

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03-14-2013, 07:42 AM
  #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
IMHO there is a far better chance having those two in the lineup help us win a couple playoff games then 2nd round picks do becoming meaningful NHL players.

If it looks like you are going to make the playoffs, you add depth, you don't subtract it. That sends a bad message to your players and your fans, and could very well hurt your bottom line.
I'm not the least bit interested in selling draft picks for rentals at our present position. I remember the Thrashers did a similar thing years ago and that really depleted their depth and set them back.

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:38 AM
  #893
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I'm not the least bit interested in selling draft picks for rentals at our present position. I remember the Thrashers did a similar thing years ago and that really depleted their depth and set them back.
100% agree

There might be a time and place for renting at the deadline down the road in a few years "if" we have a legit shot at the cup "and our cupboards overflowith" but for now we have to build through the draft while competeting for the playoffs.

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:42 AM
  #894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I'm not the least bit interested in selling draft picks for rentals at our present position. I remember the Thrashers did a similar thing years ago and that really depleted their depth and set them back.
Keith Tkachuk, anyone?

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03-14-2013, 08:56 AM
  #895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
IMHO there is a far better chance having those two in the lineup help us win a couple playoff games then 2nd round picks do becoming meaningful NHL players.

If it looks like you are going to make the playoffs, you add depth, you don't subtract it. That sends a bad message to your players and your fans, and could very well hurt your bottom line.
If there was a year to stack 2nd round picks, this would be it. Not saying you have to move these guys, but it has to be considered.

Hopefully Cormier and Kulda can come to the Peg and impress. Peluso and Enstrom will be back eventually too. When everybody is healthy the Jets will need to do something with somebody.

Forwards:
LLW
Kane-Olli-Burmi
Tangradi-Antro-Welly
Mittens-Slater-Thor

Extra Forwards:
Peluso-Cormier

Defense:
Toby-Buff
Ron-Bogo
Stu-Meech

Extra D:
Clitty-Meech-Postma-Kulda

Depth chart isn't important, point is the Jets will have 3 players too many when everybody heals up. Cormier is the only one that can be moved without waivers.

Would any of Meech, Postma, Kulda or Clitty clear waivers? Would Chevy rather lose somebody like that (more specifically a RFA asset like Kulda or Postma) than take a bit of a hit and pickup some futures. If not, is there trade value in one of the others?

Has Clitty turned been turned into a tradeable asset while playing along side Byfuglien.

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03-14-2013, 09:27 AM
  #896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
I'd rather have Hainsey for a playoff push than get what is essentially a 30% chance of getting a player that might one day make the NHL. This isn't a top player that will get a huge return here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
Yes the team without Hainsey and with Enstrom is better. But the best option is still with BOTH Hainsey and Enstrom.
exactly. To me were looking at a stiuation of:

Negative
-reduce our chances to make the play offs
-really hope we have someone to take his spot
-send a message to the team that "asset management" is more important then winning (regardless if someone is able to take the spot after the fact, if they haven't "stolen" the spot prior to the trade, it will send this message)


positives:
-acquire an asset that has a 30% chance of being as good as Chris Thorburn.
-rather then take the chances with that asset it could be packaged with other things


To me those negatives outweigh the positives.

Now, IF, we have a D man/center that shows very positively/unequivocally of being able to match up against the toughest competition and not get destroyed, on the left side, then yes, i would move hainsey-but i still don't think he gets traded for anything less then the Oduya return. Even if you believe chicago overpaid, Hainsey is a much better d man then oduya.


Perfect world? Kulda(or clitsome) and Cormier essentially steal Hainsey/Antropovs positions prior to the deadline and so we trade them.

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03-14-2013, 09:35 AM
  #897
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Originally Posted by DespoticNewt View Post
Keith Tkachuk, anyone?
Atlanta chasing a rental like Tkachuk was very pricey and had the potential to be BRUTALl for this franchise. The picks traded to acquire Tkachuk for what turned out to be 22 games turned out to be Ian Cole, Philip McRae and Brett Sonne. Sonne isn't much to get worked up over, but McRae is decent and I'd love to have Ian Cole.

Thrashers also traded a serviceable vet (Metropolit) who had 14 goals that year. The part that could potentially have been crippling to this franchise was the condition placed on the Thrashers re-signing Tkachuk. Had they re-signed him, their 2008 1st (Bogosian) would have went to the Blues. Tkachuk was unlikely to re-sign there, but imagine if ASG had convinced him.

As much as I love Tkachuk, how bad would that have been for this franchise?


That would be like the JETS going all in and trading for Perry. Great player who will help guarantee us a playoff spot, but not enough to make us a true contender. Not to mention, he'd surely walk as a free agent in July.

Now is not the time to be buying at the deadline.

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03-14-2013, 09:47 AM
  #898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Perfect world? Kulda(or clitsome) and Cormier essentially steal Hainsey/Antropovs positions prior to the deadline and so we trade them.
While I think Hainsey is far harder to replace than Android, I also think Kulda is a little more likely to be able to replace Hains than Cormier being Antro, and that while we know Hainsey is far from certain in terms of being able to be re signed, I speculate that at a discount, (which I'm sure Antro knows will be what happens no matter where he goes) Antropov will be more likely to resign with us than Ron, (though I'd prefer to ship Antro, if we were to ship one)

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03-14-2013, 10:08 AM
  #899
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Just need to re-iterate my "Hainsey prediction" so I can say "I told you so" 3rd and 4th. Or possibly a late 2nd (same or less value than 3rd, 4th IMO)

Hainsey, Mietinen, Antro, Jokinen, Wellwood, all on the block right now, I suspect.

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03-14-2013, 10:53 AM
  #900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I'm not the least bit interested in selling draft picks for rentals at our present position. I remember the Thrashers did a similar thing years ago and that really depleted their depth and set them back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
Atlanta chasing a rental like Tkachuk was very pricey and had the potential to be BRUTALl for this franchise. The picks traded to acquire Tkachuk for what turned out to be 22 games turned out to be Ian Cole, Philip McRae and Brett Sonne. Sonne isn't much to get worked up over, but McRae is decent and I'd love to have Ian Cole.

Thrashers also traded a serviceable vet (Metropolit) who had 14 goals that year. The part that could potentially have been crippling to this franchise was the condition placed on the Thrashers re-signing Tkachuk. Had they re-signed him, their 2008 1st (Bogosian) would have went to the Blues. Tkachuk was unlikely to re-sign there, but imagine if ASG had convinced him.

As much as I love Tkachuk, how bad would that have been for this franchise?


That would be like the JETS going all in and trading for Perry. Great player who will help guarantee us a playoff spot, but not enough to make us a true contender. Not to mention, he'd surely walk as a free agent in July.

Now is not the time to be buying at the deadline.
No where did Jet say we were gonna make Waddell-like boneheaded moves. Adding depth could be as simple as moving a 3rd or 4th rounder for a 3rd/4th liner to upgrade someone. We have plenty of picks this year. Scheif is likely to be in the NHL next year with Trouba who looks close. Combine that with guys like Postma, Redmond, and Cormier who are the cusp of being full time NHLers and some of the recent draft picks that are looking good like Lowery amoungst others, and you things are not nearly are bad as people make them out to be. Do people even realize how big of a deal it could be if this team make the playoffs? How many years in a row has this team missed the playoffs?

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