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Thank Holmgren for the Flyers Poor Performance

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:22 PM
  #101
Buckets and Gloves
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Originally Posted by Defense View Post


Jake Gardiner



Sean Corturier

As a Leafs fan don't want to trade Gardiner but Leafs are not even bothering to utilize him. I think a blockbuster trade can be made between these 2 teams.
Brutal for Flyers.... Leafs need to add a 1st or at min a 2nd for Flyers to consider

Not sold on Gardiner, if he was good he would be playing in the show.

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03-14-2013, 12:23 PM
  #102
TheHudlinator
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Couts + for Edler + Schneider

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:25 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Couts + for Edler + Schneider
That would have to be a massive + for Vancouver to accept, haha. Plus I can't see us moving for another goalie because I don't think Holmgren is sold on buying out Bryz yet, sadly.

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:26 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Ducks View Post
That would have to be a massive + for Vancouver to accept, haha. Plus I can't see us moving for another goalie because I don't think Holmgren is sold on buying out Bryz yet, sadly.
Yea it would be a big + and it would mean Philly is buying out Bryz.

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:28 PM
  #105
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They might do that next summer, but not this summer.

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:39 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
I can't believe we got JVR for Schenn I thought it would take Gardiner. Honestly Philly fans have no idea how good Jake Gardiner actually is, he would immediately become one of there best puck moving defensmen, hell he is the best leafs defensmen but he's blocked by unmovable contracts (Komisarek i'm looking at you) only reason why Gardiner is in the minors is because he's the only player with a two-way contract. I wouldn't trade Gardiner for Couturier. Gardiner is like the exact same player as Kris Letang... it's a shame he's not in the NHL.
No he is not, if he was the leafs best D-man he would be playing. If you cant beat out Gunnarsson, Fraser, you are not a great D-man. Gardiner is a nice prospect, but hes not the solution for the Flyers.

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:32 PM
  #107
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is it Homer's fault? or is it Snider's fault telling Homer to make the moves, because he is impatient?

combine those two with lack of team D and there in lies the biggest problems why PHI is struggling.

it boggles my mind the amount of talent they have moved the past few years. we are talking cornerstone type of guys. for what? nothing imo now

everytime i turn on a Flyers game its a 5-4...7-6 game. anyone playing some D?

there is one answer within the Flyers system to help already. its called Terry Murray. as boring as his 'style' may be he does have the ability to improve the team defense. it helped LA win the SC, but for years handicapped us at the other end on offense.

put some solid D in front of Bryz and it will be a different game imo. when he started in ANH and then in PHX, he had sound defense in front of him and was at his peak.

a lot of questions in PHI and it may get worse, before it gets better

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:35 PM
  #108
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Snider...Homer...Lavi...they all need to go.
Yup, Snider, one of the best owners in all of hockey.

Gotta go.

LOL.

Wayne Gretzky on owner Ed Snider’s desire to help turn the team around this year, maybe with a move before the deadline:

“I know him pretty well because we sort of are neighbors out here in California and I get a chance to spend some time with him, and we both love to talk about hockey and the game itself. And you know what? The people in Philadelphia know this better than anybody, that this man loves the Flyers and he loves Philadelphia, and he wants to do anything and everything to win a Stanley Cup and be a champion again. … It’s so hard to make trades now because the salary cap and Mr. Snider’s the kind of guy that would spend any amount of money to bring his city a championship team. Unfortunately for him, the way the system works now, you just can’t do that. But listen, if it doesn’t work out I’m sure he’ll re-evaluate everything come June and do everything he can in his power to bring a championship club to that city.”

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:37 PM
  #109
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ranger fan here.. i think holmgren did a risky trade by getting rid of richards and carter but i mean damn i think he hit a home run.. flyers offense is great.. i would do that trade 10/10 times but there d is suspect.. outside of schen/kimmo their d is just ok.. there fws arent really 2-way and thats the only thing they lost with trading richards is a two way center.. i think it would make sense to trade away courtier for a sick defenseman but thats just me..and lavalette is a great coach, dont think thats the issue either..

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:42 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Couts + for Edler + Schneider
The + would have to be something big like Timonen + Read.

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:44 PM
  #111
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i thought bryz was ownerships fault not holmgren? fault lies on laviolette, need to play some defense.

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:44 PM
  #112
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One thing Philly really needs that shouldn't be all that tough to acquire in theory is a decent backup. Bryz has been way over-worked this season and it's starting to show.

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:48 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Yup, Snider, one of the best owners in all of hockey.

Gotta go.

LOL.

Wayne Gretzky on owner Ed Snider’s desire to help turn the team around this year, maybe with a move before the deadline:

“I know him pretty well because we sort of are neighbors out here in California and I get a chance to spend some time with him, and we both love to talk about hockey and the game itself. And you know what? The people in Philadelphia know this better than anybody, that this man loves the Flyers and he loves Philadelphia, and he wants to do anything and everything to win a Stanley Cup and be a champion again. … It’s so hard to make trades now because the salary cap and Mr. Snider’s the kind of guy that would spend any amount of money to bring his city a championship team. Unfortunately for him, the way the system works now, you just can’t do that. But listen, if it doesn’t work out I’m sure he’ll re-evaluate everything come June and do everything he can in his power to bring a championship club to that
city.”
I guess you have the power when you attend NHL Governors meetings for decades and never propose anything more than the 14 percent in the league's local revenue sharing system so your club has an Philadelphia Corporate Financial Advantage. Ed's some Saint isn't he????


Last edited by gordie: 03-14-2013 at 01:56 PM.
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Old
03-14-2013, 01:48 PM
  #114
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Lots of smug people in here, eager to pile on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gordie View Post
I guess you have the power when you attend NHL Governors meetings for decades and never propose anything more than the 14 percent in the league's revenue sharing system so your club has an Philadelphia Corporate Financial Advantage. Ed's some Saint isn't he????
This isn't a charity, it's a competition.


Last edited by nyr2k2: 03-14-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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Old
03-14-2013, 01:50 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Couts + for Edler + Schneider
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philadelphia Ducks View Post
That would have to be a massive + for Vancouver to accept, haha. Plus I can't see us moving for another goalie because I don't think Holmgren is sold on buying out Bryz yet, sadly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Yea it would be a big + and it would mean Philly is buying out Bryz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
The + would have to be something big like Timonen + Read.
Wasn't there talk of Couturier, Coburn + for Edler and Schneider?

Personally, Simmonds or Hartnell with Couturier for Edler and Schneider, even a small something like a pick, and the Canucks look very sharp going forward, and Philadelphia becomes a more even team. I'd be willing to move Raymond or Higgins if we got a reasonably equal value defender back too.

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:53 PM
  #116
TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Wasn't there talk of Couturier, Coburn + for Edler and Schneider?

Personally, Simmonds or Hartnell with Couturier for Edler and Schneider, even a small something like a pick, and the Canucks look very sharp going forward, and Philadelphia becomes a more even team. I'd be willing to move Raymond or Higgins if we got a reasonably equal value defender back too.
Depending on if Philly is willing to buyout Bryz, Schneider + Edler for Simmonds + Couts could be a good base for a deal but I don't know how Philly feels about Elder and Schneider.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:00 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Depending on if Philly is willing to buyout Bryz, Schneider + Edler for Simmonds + Couts could be a good base for a deal but I don't know how Philly feels about Elder and Schneider.
That's why we're here

It diminishes their prized top 9 depth for a top line D and a starting goaltender on a very nice little contract. I'm willing to add a little as well, but that's only because I'm a big fan of both wingers I've asked for.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:02 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
i think the roster is fine. The issue is goaltending and a system that doesnt fit the roster. The dmen arnt that bad, they just need a coach who's going to make them look good.

My bet would be a coaching change first, and maybe amnesty bryz, if snider can swallow that pill.
^^^^^^^
See, this guy sees it. I see it. Why the hell won't Lavi alter his system to play to the strengths of his D-man and Goalie?? Good system=good Bryz. But no, let's try and win every game 6-5.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:04 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
I can't believe we got JVR for Schenn I thought it would take Gardiner. Honestly Philly fans have no idea how good Jake Gardiner actually is, he would immediately become one of there best puck moving defensmen, hell he is the best leafs defensmen but he's blocked by unmovable contracts (Komisarek i'm looking at you) only reason why Gardiner is in the minors is because he's the only player with a two-way contract. I wouldn't trade Gardiner for Couturier. Gardiner is like the exact same player as Kris Letang... it's a shame he's not in the NHL.
I am not going to tell you your players as if I know them better than you do. But I suspect that is Gardiner was the exact same player as Kris Letang, they'd find a way to get him up to the big club. You make space for guys like that.

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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Don't forget to add defense as a problem, because your blueline sucks.
Our blueline's fine, personnel wise. They need a little more structure and forward help, but the talent is there. It's weird because this year we have guys who either had been prior, or looked ready to be the puck moving guys on their pairings, and they're not getting it done (Mezsaros and Gustafsson). Coburn was never good at moving the puck with anything other than his feet, but now it looks like he forgot how to play hockey or something. Kimmo and Grossmann are the only guys playing up to their ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Wanchuk View Post
Not trying to argue, since you know your team better than I. But I was asking some Flyer fans on here last week about this very issue, and some of them shared the same setiments ie that Kimmo should have been give the C over Giroux. So it's not a totally outlandish statement to believe that Kimmo should have been given the C until he retired. But to each their own I guess.
Kimmo probably should've been given the C. But for the same reasons he should've been given the C, he doesn't need the C. When you're respected how he is, you don't need that on your chest to have everyone's ear in the locker room when you stand up to speak. It wouldn't make too much difference, I believe.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:11 PM
  #120
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Hire Terry Murray.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:14 PM
  #121
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Honestly, the Flyers have been playing this for around a decade if not longer, regardless of coach.

Pronger's presense helped, certainly, but the style of play hasn't changed all that much and i doubt it will.

Why pay big money for a goaltender if you're just going to hang him out to dry on a game-to-game basis?


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Old
03-14-2013, 02:15 PM
  #122
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The only thing Homer has done RIGHT was trade Carter and Richards for those packages. But that's it.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:16 PM
  #123
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Brutal for Flyers.... Leafs need to add a 1st or at min a 2nd for Flyers to consider

Not sold on Gardiner, if he was good he would be playing in the show.
Speak not of what you know little of.

There are a number of reasons why he isn't player and his skill is not one of them. He regressed a bit while recovering from his concussion and stayed in the AHL where it's convenient for the big club to have him at this point in time considering the ONLY other guy they can send down would be Holzer. I love Gardiner, he's going to be beyond amazing but he needs to get bigger/stronger and has to become more defensively responsible. There is no doubt that he will get on the big club, he's just too good not to, so you can't have him in the same conversation as your average prospect. Why do you think all the GM's want him in any deal and why the Leafs refuse to add him?


Last edited by CellarDweller0: 03-14-2013 at 02:25 PM.
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Old
03-14-2013, 02:35 PM
  #124
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Bear in mind at the time Richards was traded, Doughty was still unsigned and Johnson was the cornerstone defenseman until Doughty was locked up. Voynov was also unproven. It wasn't until training camp, when Voynov filled in nicely during Doughty's absence, that the Kings brass were comfortable with calling him up and eventually shipping Johnson out.

So... the Flyers likely would not have been able to acquire Johnson at the time of the Richards trade. Pronger was also healthy at the time.

I still think the Flyers made a mistake by trading Richards and Carter, and instead gave the reigns to Pronger for leadership. However, I don't think it was necessarily a bad move on Holmgren's part not insisting on getting Johnson back at the time.
This. At that time, Johnson wasn't available. So can't blame Holmes for that one...but at the time LA had an insane amount of D prospects. Could've asked for one of them instead of the 2nd rounder.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:39 PM
  #125
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Maybe trade Couturier for a point producing d. Get rid of, hopefully trade Briere, get a coach that fits the roster better and focuses more on a St. Louis or Phoenix type game.

That should be good.

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