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who would you want to see phoenix pursue via trade

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:57 PM
  #826
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Well, you heard wrong. Giving him a QO gives the Coyotes the right to match any potential offer sheet. Without the QO, he just becomes an unrestricted free agent. Now, putting the NHL in such a position would be a no-no for just about every owner in the league except Ed Snider. Hell, most teams don't even like the idea of offer sheets still. But the Flyers were prepared to give $110 million to a player five years older than OEL at the time. OEL isn't Weber, but you have a chance to steal him away for basically nothing. You need to go past 8.4 average salary before you hit the four first rounder mark. Every playoff bound GM in the league should be fired if they wouldn't trade 2 firsts, a second and a third for OEL. That's why letting him get to the draft unsigned is very, very dangerous.

The good news is that the ownership crap will be decided one way or the other before then. Plenty of time to sign him, though likely not as a Coyote.
Doesn't the QO give you the right to file for arbitration, though? Doesn't arbitration protect you from offer sheets?

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03-14-2013, 02:59 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
^
Technically he has to refuse the qualifying offer which then makes him a RFA. I don't know if they change the rule, but a team can only take a player to arbitration once.
I don't see Yandle getting traded this season, but if someone is going to overpay it would be Holmgren.
I agree with this. Personally, I wouldn't be considering a Yandle trade until the venue for our next season is crystal clear. However, if Homer gives me a ring and blows me away with an offer, of course I'd consider. I assume this is probably Maloney's line of thinking, too. He's not the blockbuster type, afterall. He's more careful and patient.

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03-14-2013, 03:23 PM
  #828
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Doesn't the QO give you the right to file for arbitration, though? Doesn't arbitration protect you from offer sheets?
If the player has accrued 4 NHL seasons then he is arbitration eligible. OEL hasn't. I'm not sure if that's for both team-elected and player-elected. This is not exactly a common situation. Players this good at this age get signed by their teams. The only reason we are talking about this is that the Coyotes don't have an owner. Even the worst of owners would match any sub 8.4 deal for OEL, so teams wouldn't bother. You can't really front-load the way you could under the old CBA, and the home team has an extra year advantage.

8 years $45 million sounds about right to me. If he wins the Norris, prepare to pay out the ass.

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03-14-2013, 03:48 PM
  #829
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Is Summers an RFA or UFA after this season? I was thinking he was RFA but I just noticed capgeek has him as a UFA.

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03-14-2013, 04:10 PM
  #830
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8 years $45 million sounds about right to me. If he wins the Norris, prepare to pay out the ass.
Seems low-ball. If I'm him I want two years, ten million - then at the expiration of that deal, I'm gunning for eight years, and sixty million. Gives me seventy million over ten years instead of a measly forty five over eight.

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03-14-2013, 04:40 PM
  #831
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Seems low-ball. If I'm him I want two years, ten million - then at the expiration of that deal, I'm gunning for eight years, and sixty million. Gives me seventy million over ten years instead of a measly forty five over eight.
Yeah, until you blow out your knee or have a catastrophic concussion in year two of the first deal. Guaranteed years (this isn't the NFL, ask DiPietro) are always better than trying to play the short game. I'd go 8/50 or 8/55 easily, depending on how the market shakes out and how he finishes. OEL strikes me as a pretty humble player, the same as Boedker. It's hard to predict what those guys will sign for. Boedker could get expensive if he keeps up the pace but the half season plays into the Coyotes favor.

I don't think he crosses $6 a year unless he wins the Norris. He is better than Yandle, but has similar numbers and zero leverage.

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03-14-2013, 05:59 PM
  #832
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If he wins the Norris, wouldn't his comparable be Karlsson's 7yr/ $45M deal? I can't think of anyone else his agent could make the case for.

On the other end, Montreal and Subban negotiated pretty long, and he still only got 2 years/$5.75M total. Yandle's deal was $1.1 and $1.3M after his ELC. OEL is probably better than both those guys were and the chance of him being signed to an offer sheet is probably more real, but it's not like he's running away with the Norris voting yet either.

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03-14-2013, 08:53 PM
  #833
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Yeah, until you blow out your knee or have a catastrophic concussion in year two of the first deal. Guaranteed years (this isn't the NFL, ask DiPietro) are always better than trying to play the short game. I'd go 8/50 or 8/55 easily, depending on how the market shakes out and how he finishes. OEL strikes me as a pretty humble player, the same as Boedker. It's hard to predict what those guys will sign for. Boedker could get expensive if he keeps up the pace but the half season plays into the Coyotes favor.

I don't think he crosses $6 a year unless he wins the Norris. He is better than Yandle, but has similar numbers and zero leverage.
This was where my earlier question about arbitration was kind of answered. We simply have to set the market. There is nothing else but that to do. From the QO standpoint, if we low-ball his QO, he has the right to not sign. We would be dumb to not qualify him at the minimum four 1st round picks ($8.4 million per year, right??). Likewise, if he had the ability to go to arbitration, we have to know that teams would be lined up waiting to sign him at over what the arbiter's ruling is. Fortunately, arbitration can't happen yet, but we also have that to worry about in the future. If we give him a $4 million/yr deal, his agent knows that he can go to arbitration and get more.

OEL is worth at least $6 million/yr at the rate he is playing. He has similar numbers to Yandle, but Yandle is in his 6th year in the NHL, correct? OEL is in his 2nd. As nice as 4 1sts would be, he's worth a trade or roster cut to fit that extra $2.4 million under. The leverage that he has is he is our best defenseman. Hands down.

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03-14-2013, 09:07 PM
  #834
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Originally Posted by BUX7PHX View Post
This was where my earlier question about arbitration was kind of answered. We simply have to set the market. There is nothing else but that to do. From the QO standpoint, if we low-ball his QO, he has the right to not sign. We would be dumb to not qualify him at the minimum four 1st round picks ($8.4 million per year, right??). Likewise, if he had the ability to go to arbitration, we have to know that teams would be lined up waiting to sign him at over what the arbiter's ruling is. Fortunately, arbitration can't happen yet, but we also have that to worry about in the future. If we give him a $4 million/yr deal, his agent knows that he can go to arbitration and get more.

OEL is worth at least $6 million/yr at the rate he is playing. He has similar numbers to Yandle, but Yandle is in his 6th year in the NHL, correct? OEL is in his 2nd. As nice as 4 1sts would be, he's worth a trade or roster cut to fit that extra $2.4 million under. The leverage that he has is he is our best defenseman. Hands down.
That's not how arbitration works.

Four 1st round picks + >$8M per season is a lot. If someone's stupid enough to pay that, let them have him. We'll draft another #1D.

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03-14-2013, 09:15 PM
  #835
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That's not how arbitration works.

Four 1st round picks + >$8M per season is a lot. If someone's stupid enough to pay that, let them have him. We'll draft another #1D.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that any player that fit into a certain category of eligible players could go to arbitration if they can't agree to a contract as an RFA. If OEL does not have to worry about that (i.e. he fills his quota of games played to make him a UFA or bypass an RFA year), then it is a moot point.

So let's say that the Coyotes offer him $5 million/yr as an RFA. OEL doesn't agree to it and either he or the team goes to arbitration on OEL's behalf. If the arbiter rules for $8 million, and the Coyotes do not respond to that amount within 48 hours, then he is a UFA, correct? Meaning he is available (potentially and very well likely) for more money and a longer term then what the Coyotes offer was and maybe for more money and term than the arbiter's ruling...

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03-15-2013, 12:03 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by BUX7PHX View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that any player that fit into a certain category of eligible players could go to arbitration if they can't agree to a contract as an RFA. If OEL does not have to worry about that (i.e. he fills his quota of games played to make him a UFA or bypass an RFA year), then it is a moot point.
OEL is on his ELC and it has never been extended. He does not have the required amount of NHL seasons to be arbitration eligible. This is intended to give clubs leverage over their talented young players and get them signed to long term deals. In this instance, it hurts the Coyotes because they cannot use the 1 time 'shield' of arbitration to protect OEL from offer sheets.

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Originally Posted by BUX7PHX View Post
So let's say that the Coyotes offer him $5 million/yr as an RFA. OEL doesn't agree to it and either he or the team goes to arbitration on OEL's behalf. If the arbiter rules for $8 million, and the Coyotes do not respond to that amount within 48 hours, then he is a UFA, correct?
Well, assuming that he was even eligible (he is not) there's really no way he gets $8 million a year. Karlsson's deal ($6.5 per) set the market, and that's for a D who, on paper, puts up numbers that are better than OEL by a nice margin. You've also got Yandle as a comparison that drags the number down in the Coyotes favor. I'd watch Pietrangelo's contract proceedings as well. It's in Oliver's best interests to sign an 8 year deal with the Coyotes for around $6m per. He'd be 29 or 30 by the time it expires, in prime position to sign a mega deal with another team to play out the last 8-10 years of his career. With the way he skates, and his game being reliant on the stick check, there's no reason he can't play as long as Lidstrom did.

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03-15-2013, 05:43 AM
  #837
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I'm feelin a trade. We've been too borederline lately. We need to put ourselves ahead.

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03-15-2013, 05:34 PM
  #838
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I'm feelin a trade. We've been too borederline lately. We need to put ourselves ahead.
It would be nice. Trade deadline is coming up soon. We need a shake-up.

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03-15-2013, 06:36 PM
  #839
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Trade? Sure! I will trade you Rob Klinkhammer and Mike Stone for Radim Vrbata and Zbynek Michalek.

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Old
03-16-2013, 01:01 AM
  #840
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Trade? Sure! I will trade you Rob Klinkhammer and Mike Stone for Radim Vrbata and Zbynek Michalek.
To be honest, i would be happy with that. Fact is, without these players, we've lost some key games. Even if they both come back completely healthy by next game, we've got some making up to do if we want to solidify our chances of making the playoffs. I think Maloney does something, doesn't have to be big, but something helpful at least. As I said before, we've got a pretty good idea of how some of our young guns in the farm on defense perform, if this is our last season, now would be the perfect time to trade one or two of our defensemen for that all-hyped "No. 1 Center."

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03-16-2013, 07:41 AM
  #841
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if this is our last season, now would be the perfect time to trade one or two of our defensemen for that all-hyped "No. 1 Center."
Not going to happen, but I'd be ecstatic if we picked up another No. 3 Centre to help us when Hanzal or Lombardi gets injured next. Matthias is a guy I really want.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=9qsN5...%3D9qsN5OBf5lU

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03-16-2013, 08:18 AM
  #842
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To be honest, i would be happy with that. Fact is, without these players, we've lost some key games. Even if they both come back completely healthy by next game, we've got some making up to do if we want to solidify our chances of making the playoffs. I think Maloney does something, doesn't have to be big, but something helpful at least. As I said before, we've got a pretty good idea of how some of our young guns in the farm on defense perform, if this is our last season, now would be the perfect time to trade one or two of our defensemen for that all-hyped "No. 1 Center."
I disagree. I would rather see a firesale, if they are moving this off-season. Start off a 'new' franchise with an infusing of youth so the fan base can grow with the prospects (good draft to do it). No one knows that for sure, so I wouldn't endorse that notion until then.
But since we don't know, I wouldn't want the Coyotes to upgrade what would be Lombardi's position, if it means losing Keith Yandle or any of the 'youth'. I'd be happy to get everybody healthy by the time the playoffs start.

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03-17-2013, 01:08 PM
  #843
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Habs board reader here.

Let's say I have some interest in Paul Bissonnette, what do you want in return?

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03-17-2013, 01:12 PM
  #844
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Habs board reader here.

Let's say I have some interest in Paul Bissonnette, what do you want in return?
Bozon?

Not sure how much value he has at the moment. I'm almost tempted to say that there's really no conceivable return that would force Maloney to move him. They seem to like having him around. As much as we lament him, he has turned into a decent everyday guy. If you are going to carry a goon, he is one of the better ones. So a late pick probably wouldn't do it.

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03-17-2013, 08:00 PM
  #845
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It would be nice. Trade deadline is coming up soon. We need a shake-up.
Word is that Smith will re-sign for 6 mill a year. What a grateful son of a #####.I would trade is ### now, so we can get something for him.

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03-17-2013, 08:34 PM
  #846
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Word is that Smith will re-sign for 6 mill a year. What a grateful son of a #####.I would trade is ### now, so we can get something for him.
Where did you hear that? Very doubtful in my opinion. I would say 4 at most.

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03-17-2013, 08:41 PM
  #847
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It's from Bruce Garrioch - Ottawa Sun. Read it through Spector
http://spectorshockey.net/blog/sunda...march-17-2013/

It doesn't say much except Smith may re-sign for $6Mil

...and then again he may not
he didn't ask, or Coyotes offered, the money, just 'may' sign for $6mil

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03-17-2013, 09:11 PM
  #848
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Garrioch is basically eklund with a salary. Means nothing.

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03-17-2013, 09:31 PM
  #849
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Garrioch is basically eklund with a salary. Means nothing.
LOL. But sometimes where there is smoke there is fire.

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03-17-2013, 09:32 PM
  #850
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Word is that Smith will re-sign for 6 mill a year. What a grateful son of a #####.I would trade is ### now, so we can get something for him.
Since he works for the Ottawa Sun and likely does not have any sources directly involved with the Coyotes, he is probably just speculating, which does not worry me. If Smith is wise he will stay in Phoenix where the entire system revolves around him, and where his coach has a large amount of confidence in him. The most fair contract would probably be 5 years at or 4 million, which is kind of similar to Andrej Pavelec's contract for comparisons sake.

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