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Trade Rumor Thread Part VI: Gaborik for Peanuts

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:18 PM
  #676
Ranger_Engineer
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Smid is a UFA after this year. He's making $2.25M this year.

He has good size, he hits (186 last year), and he blocks shots (184 last year).

If he's available, Sather should check on the price. He could be a stabilizer for the 2nd or 3rd pair for next season.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:24 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I think that number for Hagelin is short by about $750k, but let's assume it isn't. That leaves us with 12 signed forwards from the current roster, and 6 signed defensemen in McD, Girardi, Staal, Stralman, Bickel and Del Zotto. Since he's cheap, let's keep Bickel for 750k as our #7 D. Who fills the 13th forward and 6th defensive spots? Kreider should get a look. Well, his cap hit alone takes up about half of what we have left in cap space. So we're down to $1.4M for a #6D. Let's go cheap-o there as well and re-sign Eminger for his current salary of $700k. $700k left for call-ups in case of injury? We sure as hell better hope nobody gets hurt. Factor in even another $500k for Hagelin's deal and we have zero room for call-ups.

There's a reason teams don't operate within hundreds of thousands of dollars of the cap. You need to leave room for reserve players and call-ups, and maintain flexibility for trades and waiver movement.

How are you going to jettison Asham? Who wants a $1M player on their books with a bad back? You can banish Bickel to the minors, but good luck finding a 7th D that you can really count on for $750k.
Yes, I would definitely keep Eminger as #7D for 750K.
There are many ways Sather can massage the cap. I don't think Boyle will stay, that's a 1.5M replaced with Lindberg's 750K.
Do you need Pyatt if Fasth is ready? There is 600K capspace there.
But let's assume that we are right up against it, to save a mill or so in cap space, we have to trade Gaborik's 7.5 Mil? That makes no sense IMO.

An added benefit to trading Gaborik is more capspace. But he shouldn't be traded because of capspace.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:26 PM
  #678
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No way to Jay ...bo

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:27 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Where is this table of comparables?
It was in one of the threads, just kept a copy


CONTRACTS FOR "HOMEGROWN" NEW YORK RANGERS

PlayerELC yearYears~ NHL salaryRFA #1 yearYears~ NHL salaryMult factorRFA #2 yearYears~ NHL salaryMult factor
Dan Girardi 2006/2007 2 525.000 2008/2009 2 1.550.000 2,95 2010/2011 4 3.250.000 2,10
Ryan Callahan 2006/2007 3 575.000 2009/2010 2 2.300.000 4,00 2011/2012 3 4.275.000 1,86
Brandon Dubinsky 2006/2007 3 633.333 2009/2010 2 1.850.000 2,92 2011/2012 4 4.200.000 2,27
Marc Staal 2007/2008 3 793.333 NONE 0 0 0 2010/2011 5 3.975.000 5,01
Brian Boyle 2007/2008 2 750.000 2009/2010 2 525.000 0,70 2011/2012 3 1.700.000 3,24
Mike Sauer 2007/2008 3 590.000 2010/2011 1 500.000 0,85 2011/2012 2 1.250.000 2,50
Artem Anisimov 2008/2009 3 821.266 2011/2012 2 1.875.000 2,28 2013/2014 GONE GONE GONE
Michael del Zotto 2009/2010 3 875.000 2012/2013 2 2.550.000 2,91 2014/2015 ???? ??
Carl Hagelin 2011/2012 2 662.500 2013/2014 ?? ?? 3,00?? ?? ?? ????
Derek Stepan 2010/2011 3 820.833 2013/2014 ?? ?? 3,00?? ????????
Ryan McDonagh 2010/2011 3 875.000 NONE?? ?? ??NONE?? 2013/2014 ?? ?? 5,00??
Chris Kreider 2011/2012 3 800.000 2014/2015 ?? ?? 3,00?? ?? ?? ?? ??

According to this "principle & logic" - this should also mean:
  • Stepan signs in 2013 for 2 years for $2,5M per
  • McD signs in 2013 for 4-5 years for $4,3M per
  • Hagelin signs in 2013 for 2 years for $2M per
  • Kreider signs in 2014 for 2 years for $2,4M per

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:31 PM
  #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger_Engineer View Post
Smid is a UFA after this year. He's making $2.25M this year.

He has good size, he hits (186 last year), and he blocks shots (184 last year).

If he's available, Sather should check on the price. He could be a stabilizer for the 2nd or 3rd pair for next season.
Smid is someone the Rangers should look at in the off-season as a UFA if he is available and they believe McIlrath isn't quite ready or they want to possibly move someone.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:33 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
They have 11 mil.

I used BBkers table using comparables.
Stepan signs in 2013 for 2 years for $2.5M per
McD signs in 2013 for 4-5 years for $4.3M per
Hagelin signs in 2013 for 2 years for $2M per

That's 8.8M, even if we add a 15% fudge factor, that's 10Mil.

If they need more space, Asham and Bickel can be jettisoned for another 1.75 mil.
That gives them 2.75 Mil of cap space with everybody signed in 2013.
So, Asham and Bickel wouldn't have to be replaced?

We have 11 mil, but that's with only 17 players signed. Stepan, McD and Hagelin brings us to 20. If you get rid of Asham and Bickel, we only have 18.

NHL teams regularly have 22 or 23 players on the roster. 19 on the ice, a backup goalie, a 7th dman and 1 or 2 spare forwards.

Go on capgeek and look at the numbers yourself. The money is tight. A lot depends on what our RFAs get. Sather already flipped Rupp for a cheaper option. He may do the same thing with Boyle. And I'm sure he'll do everything he can to keep the cap hits down for our RFAs. But no matter what, it's still going to be tight, and does nothing to address our depth issues.

Trading Gaborik may not be necessary for cap reasons. Sather may just do it to get more depth in the lineup and add players who better fit the team concept. Either way, I don't see it happening until at least the draft.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:33 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Ranger_Engineer View Post
Smid is a UFA after this year. He's making $2.25M this year.

He has good size, he hits (186 last year), and he blocks shots (184 last year).

If he's available, Sather should check on the price. He could be a stabilizer for the 2nd or 3rd pair for next season.
id love Smid but only if the Rangers can sign him to extension...


but knowing Sather he will give us Ryan Poti i mean Whitney

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03-14-2013, 02:51 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Yes, I would definitely keep Eminger as #7D for 750K.
There are many ways Sather can massage the cap. I don't think Boyle will stay, that's a 1.5M replaced with Lindberg's 750K.
Do you need Pyatt if Fasth is ready? There is 600K capspace there.
But let's assume that we are right up against it, to save a mill or so in cap space, we have to trade Gaborik's 7.5 Mil? That makes no sense IMO.

An added benefit to trading Gaborik is more capspace. But he shouldn't be traded because of capspace.
You don't make decisions about next years roster based on players who have never played a minute of NHL hockey. Fasth and Lindberg could very well replace Boyle and Pyatt, but they could also spend the entire year in the AHL. Theoretical cap space is useless. By the time you figure out who can actually make the team next fall, how many offers for Gaborik have you passed on? Why generate cap space by downgrading or getting rid of players who are cheap and effective?

In the end, you're not trading Gaborik solely because of cap space. You're trading him because he doesn't fit, and he's the piece that will likely get you something useful in return while getting you closer to a manageable cap number. Trade him for Fisher, Ellis and a 1st and you get a proven 3rd line center and a promising RH PMD who can slot in as a #6 because he's doing it right now. Now you've filled a hole in the roster, bolstered a position of weakness on the 3rd line, and have recouped an asset that was lost in the Nash deal. All while gaining cap flexibility which allows you to experiment with the roster. You don't have to rid yourself of Pyatt to create space to see if Fasth can take his place.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:53 PM
  #684
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Nokkelainen on waivers. Meh.

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03-14-2013, 02:55 PM
  #685
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Nokkelainen on waivers. Meh.
Where's he been this season?

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Old
03-14-2013, 03:07 PM
  #686
Kwayry
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
You don't make decisions about next years roster based on players who have never played a minute of NHL hockey. Fasth and Lindberg could very well replace Boyle and Pyatt, but they could also spend the entire year in the AHL. Theoretical cap space is useless. By the time you figure out who can actually make the team next fall, how many offers for Gaborik have you passed on? Why generate cap space by downgrading or getting rid of players who are cheap and effective?

In the end, you're not trading Gaborik solely because of cap space. You're trading him because he doesn't fit, and he's the piece that will likely get you something useful in return while getting you closer to a manageable cap number. Trade him for Fisher, Ellis and a 1st and you get a proven 3rd line center and a promising RH PMD who can slot in as a #6 because he's doing it right now. Now you've filled a hole in the roster, bolstered a position of weakness on the 3rd line, and have recouped an asset that was lost in the Nash deal. All while gaining cap flexibility which allows you to experiment with the roster. You don't have to rid yourself of Pyatt to create space to see if Fasth can take his place.
My post was pretty clear, I did not advocate replacing Pyatt with Lindberg, I said that was one example of the many ways Sather can massage the cap if there was a cap issue, and I clearly don't agree there is or will be a cap issue.

We started this discussion with "Why do people say Rangers HAVE to trade Gaborik for cap reasons?".
Took a little while, but you have reached the same conclusion as me, they don't.

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03-14-2013, 03:21 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
My post was pretty clear, I did not advocate replacing Pyatt with Lindberg, I said that was one example of the many ways Sather can massage the cap if there was a cap issue, and I clearly don't agree there is or will be a cap issue.
How exactly is "massaging the cap" different than replacing one player with another? If Fasth or Lindberg can't replace someone on the roster, how exactly does one massage the cap at that point? Call it whatever you like, it's still a bogus solution. All so we can keep a guy who clearly isn't fitting in with the team at this point.

You're just choosing not to acknowledge the facts if you don't think the cap will be an issue. I can't help you if you want to justify your opinion on a bunch of hypothetical scenarios and the same "rookie will replace established player" lines we read over and over on this board every year.

Quote:
We started this discussion with "Why do people say Rangers HAVE to trade Gaborik for cap reasons?".
Took a little while, but you have reached the same conclusion as me, they don't.
Uh, no. That wasn't my conclusion at all. My conclusion is that the cap is one of several reasons that they have to trade Gaborik.

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03-14-2013, 03:26 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Smid is someone the Rangers should look at in the off-season as a UFA if he is available and they believe McIlrath isn't quite ready or they want to possibly move someone.
You wouldn't move 5 ft 9 Thomas and a 2nd rounder for a top pair guy like Smid?

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03-14-2013, 03:27 PM
  #689
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You wouldn't move 5 ft 9 Thomas and a 2nd rounder for a top pair guy like Smid?
Not as a rental. Hell no.

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03-14-2013, 04:14 PM
  #690
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post

You're just choosing not to acknowledge the facts if you don't think the cap will be an issue.
Cap will be an issue is an opinion but not a fact. It is based on worse case scenarios and disregard of historical precedence.

Quote:
I can't help you if you want to justify your opinion on a bunch of hypothetical scenarios and the same "rookie will replace established player" lines we read over and over on this board every year.
This is an interesting one. So there is no precedence for rookies making established players expandable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Uh, no. That wasn't my conclusion at all. My conclusion is that the cap is one of several reasons that they have to trade Gaborik.
Let me ask this hypothetical: Let's say Rangers trade for a decent 3C and Gaborik starts scoring in bunches, do you think Sather will find the cap space for him or not?

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03-14-2013, 04:20 PM
  #691
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Not as a rental. Hell no.
I doubt Thomas ever becomes a regular on this team. The 2nd also has a 30-40% chance at becoming a regular NHLer. Smid as a rental during a playoff run is exactly what we need. A defender in his prime years that plays our type of game for a playoff run. Might have a chance of re-signing him. Look at what Grossman got last yr and he isn't as good as Smid. He looks pretty good on the Flyers.

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Old
03-14-2013, 04:26 PM
  #692
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Not as a rental. Hell no.
This.
The second rd pick is our first pick in this deep draft. I would be careful with it.

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03-14-2013, 04:30 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Cap will be an issue is an opinion but not a fact. It is based on worse case scenarios and disregard of historical precedence.
What precedence is that exactly?

Quote:
This is an interesting one. So there is no precedence for rookies making established players expandable?
Of course rookies can make established players expendable. The point is that until they do so, penciling them in as options to create cap space is useless.

Quote:
Let me ask this hypothetical: Let's say Rangers trade for a decent 3C and Gaborik starts scoring in bunches, do you think Sather will find the cap space for him or not?
I'm not going down the road to hypothetical situations. It doesn't go anywhere.

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03-14-2013, 04:38 PM
  #694
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What precedence is that exactly?
A GM's ability to manage a tight cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I'm not going down the road to hypothetical situations. It doesn't go anywhere.

oh it does, down a slippery slope.

Anyway, I discussed Gaborik's trade proposals here and on the trade boards. So I am not against it.
But to say that we have to trade him SOLELY for cap reasons is not correct and decreases Gaborik's value.

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03-14-2013, 04:55 PM
  #695
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Cap will be an issue is an opinion but not a fact. It is based on worse case scenarios and disregard of historical precedence.
Mathematics is an opinion now. Good one.

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03-14-2013, 05:00 PM
  #696
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Mathematics is an opinion now. Good one.
Ok, maybe my math skills are lacking, can you prove it mathematically?

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03-14-2013, 07:51 PM
  #697
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2013 Gaborik + Christian Thomas for 2009 Gaborik.

Thoughts?

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03-14-2013, 08:04 PM
  #698
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Per Zipay...

Scoucts from Edm, Mon, St L, Chi, Tor, and TB at the game in WPEG tonight.

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03-14-2013, 08:17 PM
  #699
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Per Zipay...

Scoucts from Edm, Mon, St L, Chi, Tor, and TB at the game in WPEG tonight.
edm there? gaborik, girardi, boyle, 2014 1st, pashnin, bickel, lindberg for hall, smid, 2013 2nd round, danis

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03-14-2013, 08:51 PM
  #700
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saying Gaborik is available for the right price, they want 2 bottom 6 type F, Righty D......but Gabby has a high contract so not that teams in.......if he starts scoring then more will line up............that's what I got out of it

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