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OT Sacramento looking to finance new arena; UPD NBA rejects relocation to Seattle bid

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Old
03-12-2013, 05:37 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Wasn't the Supersonics/TrailBlazers a good rivalry too? That adds another reason to vote no. Not to piss off his customers for his other franchises and ensuring a rivalry continues
Paul Allen owns the Seahawks.

Paul Allen was against the soncis leaving in the first place. So he's a guaranteed Yes vote to approval sale. He is not a NO vote and never will be a no vote regarding the sonics returning.

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03-12-2013, 05:38 PM
  #277
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Wasn't the Supersonics/TrailBlazers a good rivalry too? That adds another reason to vote no. Not to piss off his customers for his other franchises and ensuring a rivalry continues
Mr. Allen, as has been stated, did not vote no. He abstained from the vote which some view as a "no" vote but really quite possible he just felt to close to situation or impartial to submit a fair vote.

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03-12-2013, 10:50 PM
  #278
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There were only 2 who voted aganst the move. One being Paul Allen, who lives in the Seattle area, and is the owner of the Seahawks and Sounders. The other being Mark Cuban, who was fueding with Stern at the time and also saw that Seattle was in the NBA for 41 years and showed his support. You are not going to see Allen or Cuban vote Seattle down.
That might have been a tiny part, but pre-Thunder, the entire state of Oklahoma (3.5 million people) were under the territorial rights possession of the Dallas Mavericks. They lost a lot of Fox Sports eyeballs with the Thunder coming to the region.

Also, while I believe Seattle will get the NBA again, don't put it past their inept political leadership in the city and state to blow it.

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03-12-2013, 11:30 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by OKCDevil View Post
That might have been a tiny part, but pre-Thunder, the entire state of Oklahoma (3.5 million people) were under the territorial rights possession of the Dallas Mavericks. They lost a lot of Fox Sports eyeballs with the Thunder coming to the region.

Also, while I believe Seattle will get the NBA again, don't put it past their inept political leadership in the city and state to blow it.
Umm the state is not involved. And the votes were 9-0 county 7-2 city. There is no way the city will blow it before NBA votes.

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03-13-2013, 12:07 AM
  #280
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Also, while I believe Seattle will get the NBA again, don't put it past their inept political leadership in the city and state to blow it.
Politicians already on board.

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03-13-2013, 12:26 AM
  #281
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Also, while I believe Seattle will get the NBA again, don't put it past their inept political leadership in the city and state to blow it.
The idiots liar Clay dealt with have been voted out of office.

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03-13-2013, 11:40 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by superdeluxe View Post
Last 5 years that the Sonics were in Seattle vs last 5 years of Kings



You can always have fun with stats.
Kings have missed the playoffs every year since 2006, and haven't won more than 25 games in any season since 07-08. Seattle, during their final 5 years, won their division once and won 30+ games in 4 of their 5 years. Not exactly comparable.

I'll respond to the others later.

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03-13-2013, 01:22 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Its unprecedented for the BOG to vote down a sale for NON money issues.

So you want owners telling other owners who they can't sell to? That is exactly whats going to happen if BOG votes down Hansen's deal which will make it that much harder for those owners that said no to sell their franchises later.
If the Kings get the money to the NBA's liking and get an arena deal done before the deadline, this whole situation will be unprecedented and will come down to a decision of ethics. Will they vote for the new, solid ownership with a deal in place for a new city, or will they vote to keep the team in an area where they have sold out over half their seasons in over a quarter century.

Again, it will probably be Seattle coming out on top, but as of now, nothing has been decided.

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A feeler thats BS. They had to match the offer and yet they haven't. They know what hansen's offer is. The 525m figure has been publicly known for weeks. That is no excuse to make a low ball offer like that.

If the money is there then why did they not make the matching offer in the first place? ~100m is not easy to make up in 3 weeks.
Usually when you make a big investment purchase, you bid lower than you're really willing to pay in able to eventually make the real offer. This initial offer was simply to get something to the NBA and to get feedback. Sacramento will have a comparable monetary offer by April 3rd.

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Originally Posted by Nuclear SUV View Post
I don't think you realize that Seattle had one of the smallest arenas in the league.
Less than 300 less seats than in Sacramento.

Sacramento has sold out 16 of their 27 seasons.

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Where are your fans now? In our last years we were outdrawing your last years.
Apples and oranges. Seattle had better teams during that span, one of them won 52 games and the NW division. Sacramento hasn't won more than 25 since 07-08.

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They will go from bottom in the NBA in attendance this year to sell outs in Seattle next year.
Sacramento would sell out if they had a semi-decent product on the quart. Their past attendance figures speak for themselves.

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Everything Sacramento is doing now is to get a promise for a franchise. They are not keeping the current one. It is too late. It became too late when the PSA was inked. That's the reality we in Seattle know. The sooner you understand this reality, the sooner you can come to terms.
That is YOUR view. It won't be determined until the 18th and 19th of April.

There will be lawsuits regardless.

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Nonsense. CEO of Microsoft and founder/CEO of Costco teamed up. But again, too late, the PSA was signed by the lying Okies.
Yeah, and your mayor also sold off the remaining terms of the lease to Key arena. They had time to put up the effort that Sacramento has, and the former Mayor didn't.


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...for an expansion guarantee like Charlotte.

They are not keeping the current franchise. It is too late!
Speculation at this time. Nothing more.

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Originally Posted by superdeluxe View Post
How in their right mind did they think the owners would be okay with 100 million less than the Seattle group? This also does not include the 75$ million rumored relocation fee. So in reality a 175 million dollar bump to either valuation of their teams and additional $$$ for owners pockets
No one knows the exact language or exact differences in the two offers. The first Sacramento offer was simply to get one in and to hear back from Stern for what they needed to do next. The offer that will come either on, or right before April 3rd will be comparable to Hansen's.

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Originally Posted by nwpensfan View Post
Do you really think Hansen would agree to a $30M guarantee without having first talked to the NBA about his chances if the Maloofs agreed to the PSA? And if you think that money is irrelevant to the NBA when it comes to a potential owner dealing with one that Stern would love to see gone than you are fooling yourself.
Stern dislikes the Maloof's, he has nothing against Sacramento, Burkle, Mastrov, Kehriotis, Kevin Johnson etc.

Stern is letting the owners decide the fate of the team so he can be absolved of all responsibility in the decision.


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03-13-2013, 01:29 PM
  #284
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03-13-2013, 02:01 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Kings have missed the playoffs every year since 2006, and haven't won more than 25 games in any season since 07-08. Seattle, during their final 5 years, won their division once and won 30+ games in 4 of their 5 years. Not exactly comparable.

I'll respond to the others later.
Sacramento has a deeper floor, lower ceiling. Seattle rates as one of the top NBA cities. Led the NBA in attendance multiple times.

Sacramento did have a nice sellout streak for itself, but so did Seattle with significantly higher ticket prices.

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03-13-2013, 02:06 PM
  #286
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Yeah, and your mayor also sold off the remaining terms of the lease to Key arena. They had time to put up the effort that Sacramento has, and the former Mayor didn't.

False. He sued. The city folded when the NBA told them to. We are now being rewarded with the Sacramento franchise that's in last place in attendance.

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03-13-2013, 04:35 PM
  #287
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False. He sued. The city folded when the NBA told them to. We are now being rewarded with the Sacramento franchise that's in last place in attendance.
How are sentences 1-3 related to the 4th?

You haven't been rewarded with anything yet. It's in Seattle's favor, as i've said many times, but nothing has been made official yet.

And the recent attendance woes of the Kings have absolutely no relation to the potential sale and move. The Maloof's have been looking at every avenue they could since their crummy casinos went under. Sacramento not selling a few tickets isn't the reason why they are selling.

The Maloof's are to blame for what has happened with the fans, not us.

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03-13-2013, 04:37 PM
  #288
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Sacramento has a deeper floor, lower ceiling. Seattle rates as one of the top NBA cities. Led the NBA in attendance multiple times.

Sacramento did have a nice sellout streak for itself, but so did Seattle with significantly higher ticket prices.
I would love some links, if you got some.

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03-13-2013, 05:19 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post

The Maloof's are to blame for what has happened with the fans, not us.
We outdrew you with a bigger POS than the Maloofs. If this is Seattle vs. Sacramento, you lose big time. But it isn't that. It is the Hansen-Ballmer group seeking inevitable approval by the league's owners. Everything KJ and co. are doing is for the future, and that's not speculation, it's reality.

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03-13-2013, 05:22 PM
  #290
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I would love some links, if you got some.
Seattle was the first franchise to average over 20,000 fans a game over an entire season and held multiple regular season and playoff attendance records. Common knowledge amongst the sports business crowd.

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03-13-2013, 10:28 PM
  #291
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We outdrew you with a bigger POS than the Maloofs.
You obviously haven't seen what the Maloof's inherited, and how they left this franchise. Debating which ownership group was worse is really asinine. They were both terrible.

Seattle outdrew the Kings when they played in the Kingdome. But, that really isn't fair, that dome had a lot more capacity than did Arco. From the years 2001-08, while playing in the league at the same time, Sacramento outdrew Seattle significantly. That is a fact

Quote:
If this is Seattle vs. Sacramento, you lose big time.
Financially? Probably. Population, yes, but not by a ton. True fans? No way.

The Kings recent attendace issues have little to do with the fans. Hardcores still show up every night. Casuals don't. Seattle will sell out for the first couple of years, but if they get the same results and inept management Kings fans have had to deal with in recent years, their attendance will lag, too. Seattle is no different in that regard than any other city is.

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But it isn't that. It is the Hansen-Ballmer group seeking inevitable approval by the league's owners. Everything KJ and co. are doing is for the future, and that's not speculation, it's reality.
It's the most likely result, not reality yet. It's still march. No vote has yet taken place.

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03-13-2013, 10:29 PM
  #292
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Seattle was the first franchise to average over 20,000 fans a game over an entire season and held multiple regular season and playoff attendance records. Common knowledge amongst the sports business crowd.
Still no links. Thanks anyways.

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03-13-2013, 11:24 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Still no links. Thanks anyways.
Just by doing a quick search came across these.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdome#section_4

In the 197980 season, the SuperSonics set an NBA record average attendance of 21,725 fans per game (since broken).[14]The SuperSonics also set NBA records for single-game playoff attendance in 1978 and 1980 with crowds of 39,457 and 40,172 respectively (also since broken). The Kingdome record attendance for a regular season game was in 1991, with 38,067.[15]*The SuperSonics hosted the*1987 NBA All-Star Game*there.

http://www.basketballreference.com/t...tm?tm=sea&lg=n

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03-13-2013, 11:55 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by bosshogg18 View Post
Just by doing a quick search came across these.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdome#section_4

In the 197980 season, the SuperSonics set an NBA record average attendance of 21,725 fans per game (since broken).[14]The SuperSonics also set NBA records for single-game playoff attendance in 1978 and 1980 with crowds of 39,457 and 40,172 respectively (also since broken). The Kingdome record attendance for a regular season game was in 1991, with 38,067.[15]*The SuperSonics hosted the*1987 NBA All-Star Game*there.

http://www.basketballreference.com/t...tm?tm=sea&lg=n
Thank you.

Those are all nice accomplishments, but I have to think just about every NBA city, outside of Memphis and perhaps Milwaukee, would get something similar to that if they had the opportunity to play their games in a high-capacity dome.

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03-14-2013, 10:08 AM
  #295
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Usually when you make a big investment purchase, you bid lower than you're really willing to pay in able to eventually make the real offer. This initial offer was simply to get something to the NBA and to get feedback. Sacramento will have a comparable monetary offer by April 3rd.


No one knows the exact language or exact differences in the two offers. The first Sacramento offer was simply to get one in and to hear back from Stern for what they needed to do next. The offer that will come either on, or right before April 3rd will be comparable to Hansen's.
Earlier in the process without an already agreed upon PSA in place your logic makes perfect sense. But with just weeks left before the vote on whether to approve the PSA it just does not fly that the best strategy is to come in low on an already agreed upon deal between two parties.

If KJ and his group wanted the NBA to take them serious at this late stage, coming in with a low offer would more than likely insult the NBA not encourage them to come back to them with what they need to do. We in Seattle know this first hand. Getting serious late in the game most of the time is not going to stop something already moving along. Apparently from Sterns statements this was not a real serious offer (not "mature" to use his words).

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03-14-2013, 11:21 AM
  #296
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Earlier in the process without an already agreed upon PSA in place your logic makes perfect sense. But with just weeks left before the vote on whether to approve the PSA it just does not fly that the best strategy is to come in low on an already agreed upon deal between two parties.

If KJ and his group wanted the NBA to take them serious at this late stage, coming in with a low offer would more than likely insult the NBA not encourage them to come back to them with what they need to do. We in Seattle know this first hand. Getting serious late in the game most of the time is not going to stop something already moving along. Apparently from Sterns statements this was not a real serious offer (not "mature" to use his words).
Stern coming out and saying the offer needs more money so early after the offer came in helps the Kings. He could have easily said nothing and let the Kings assume it was a good offer then tell them on April 3rd that it wasn't good enough. Now what that means for the BOG vote? Probably nothing. But, at least it gives them ample time to improve the deal.

This is likely going to end with the owners voting the Seattle deal through and with the league saying Sacramento will eventually get a team, but I think some around here are mixing up the meaning of the words 'fact' and 'very likely'.

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03-14-2013, 11:44 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Stern coming out and saying the offer needs more money so early after the offer came in helps the Kings. He could have easily said nothing and let the Kings assume it was a good offer then tell them on April 3rd that it wasn't good enough. Now what that means for the BOG vote? Probably nothing. But, at least it gives them ample time to improve the deal.

This is likely going to end with the owners voting the Seattle deal through and with the league saying Sacramento will eventually get a team, but I think some around here are mixing up the meaning of the words 'fact' and 'very likely'.
I disagree - I don't think it helps them at all because you heard the rhetoric before the offer was made ... "we can write the loan out of our offer since it won't need to be immediately repaid" and "we don't have to pay a relocation fee so that can we written out". Stern just basically told them "no discount!" but he did it in public.

I don't think this was put out there because they had the money in hand to match the Hansen offer and were sandbagging their first bid. I think they were saying that because they were hoping for a hometown discount since the $525MM valuation doesn't work in Sac. That has been the problem for Sac all along ... making those numbers work in a small market (in terms of corp support) and in a city that is struggling financially.

I also don't buy for a second the argument that Sac is a one team market. Both the 49'ers and A's/Giants bleed into the Sac market.

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03-14-2013, 04:00 PM
  #298
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http://www.sacbee.com/2013/03/14/526...own-arena.html

A couple local lawyers threatening to take this to a public vote if city approves it.

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03-14-2013, 04:17 PM
  #299
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http://www.sacbee.com/2013/03/14/526...own-arena.html

A couple local lawyers threatening to take this to a public vote if city approves it.
Is that a good thing or bad thing for Seattle?

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03-14-2013, 04:18 PM
  #300
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I also don't buy for a second the argument that Sac is a one team market. Both the 49'ers and A's/Giants bleed into the Sac market.
Do't have the time for your first statements right now, but even though Sacramento is northern California and located within 90 miles of SF/Oak, it's its own entity. There are lots of Canucks fans in Seattle/Northern Wasdhington, but I wouldn't consider the Canucks a part of Seattle.

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