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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

NYR- Chi/ NYR- Mtl

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:03 PM
  #76
iamitter
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
There is nothing of value as to an expanded deal, as I suggested. Thus there is NO EXPANDED deal.

There is a deal to be made, Olsen for Boyle in principle, which has been upgraded to Olsen for Boyle + 4th.

If we get a better offer, by all means, no sacred cows.

If we don't, we should do Olsen for Boyle +.
The fact that Olsen is not righty and thus an ideal fit is not more important than upgrading by adding more total value.
Olsen wouldn't crack our lineup as a lefty. We lose our defensive center. I see no incentive for NYR to make this trade. This is, using your analogies, two steps back for anywhere from 1-3 steps forward in the future. Which isn't enough.

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:21 PM
  #77
Hawkaholic
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Thank you for a thoughtful and extensive response.

Having done the due diligence to confirm there is no other player(s) NY could add which would have appeal as to the overall parameters of an expanded deal, I agree that I don't think there is a expanded deal to be made.

As to the original deal, NY should keep looking for best offer, but at this point I believe we should do something around Boyle for Olsen.

I accept Boyle for Olsen or Boyle for Olsen + 4th.

If we can agree on what minor leaguers Rangers would throw in, like, say, Brandon Mashinter and Mike Vernace, I would consider expanding the core to include Kyle Beach, Steve Montador, or Shawn LaLonde (the latter 2 being righties).

On a separate ? with an outside chance of merging 2 deals into one larger deal, what would the price be for Clendening (a righty)? Obviously, not Boyle.
Since Clendening is our top defensive prospect, we would need one of your top prospects back in return, so..

Kreider, JT MIller, McIlrath are really the only ones that pop out at me, but I don't know too mcuh about the Rangers or the prospects to give a fair value offer.

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03-14-2013, 02:47 PM
  #78
Kwayry
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Since Clendening is our top defensive prospect, we would need one of your top prospects back in return, so..

Kreider, JT MIller, McIlrath are really the only ones that pop out at me, but I don't know too mcuh about the Rangers or the prospects to give a fair value offer.
How about the proposed trade Boyle for Olsen + 4th, then we turn around and trade you
Olsen + 3rd + your 4th for Clendening

Will that work?



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Old
03-14-2013, 05:40 PM
  #79
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
Olsen wouldn't crack our lineup as a lefty. We lose our defensive center. I see no incentive for NYR to make this trade. This is, using your analogies, two steps back for anywhere from 1-3 steps forward in the future. Which isn't enough.
This is a fair and reasonable argument, thank you.
I partly disagree he wouldn't crack our lineup.
Obviously, he wouldn't beat out McD/Staal/MDZ.
But if he were an overall talent upgrade, the universe would not implode if
McD Girardi
Staal MDZ
Olsen Stralman
Gilroy

Plus, you are adding net talent, and making possible for successive deals.

Yeah, we'd be giving up Boyle but
a) long term we expect Lindberg to supplant him or higher anyway, possibly as early as next season, not including a likely cup-o-coffee this year after his playoffs are done.
b) We have short term options w/Haley and Powe
c) I think if he busted his butt, Yogan is big enough to handle 4c, plus he has shown flashes of scoring ability

This team must add to the level of talent it has.

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03-14-2013, 06:24 PM
  #80
Kwayry
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
This is a fair and reasonable argument, thank you.
I partly disagree he wouldn't crack our lineup.
Obviously, he wouldn't beat out McD/Staal/MDZ.
But if he were an overall talent upgrade, the universe would not implode if
McD Girardi
Staal MDZ
Olsen Stralman
Gilroy

Plus, you are adding net talent, and making possible for successive deals.

Yeah, we'd be giving up Boyle but
a) long term we expect Lindberg to supplant him or higher anyway, possibly as early as next season, not including a likely cup-o-coffee this year after his playoffs are done.
b) We have short term options w/Haley and Powe
c) I think if he busted his butt, Yogan is big enough to handle 4c, plus he has shown flashes of scoring ability

This team must add to the level of talent it has.

The universe wouldn't implode if we fit Olsen as #6D, but why jump through these hoops when we can find a better fit somewhere else?
LAK, Canucks, Hurricanes, Habs are all looking for that FO/defensive center on the 3rd line. We can get a better fit somewhere else.

And if we don't like the return, we can always revisit when we know we have a better replacement in Lindberg or someone else.
After all we can also use his sought after skills in the playoffs.

McNeil, Pirri, Clendening we can talk on + on either side to balance it out. If they are not available, no biggie. They have their bottom line, we have ours.

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Old
03-14-2013, 06:45 PM
  #81
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Since Clendening is our top defensive prospect, we would need one of your top prospects back in return, so..

Kreider, JT MIller, McIlrath are really the only ones that pop out at me, but I don't know too mcuh about the Rangers or the prospects to give a fair value offer.
Fair enough; obviously Kreider and Miller would be big overpayment, so no.
McIlrath I would consider, especially since he'd be shipped out of conference.
But I think I have a better counter offer.

Brady Skjei was our first. Long lanky speedy. Needs to learn a LOT, but in terms or raw skating and speed, is legit. Best case scenario, a very lite Letang. Again, just to paint a picture, in that mold, best case scenario.

For the record,
I have not officially just said Skjei WILL definitely be the next Letang,
the way
I have officially said Kreider will be the next Dave Keon, which prediction I standby, if that idiot coach Torts will ever just let him up and play...

back to our discussion...

You are blessed with a lot of prospects/players hitting on all cylinders now, so a guy like Skjei further in the pipeline not only is not a concern for you, it could be an asset as to ELC management/cap juggling

Something around (first thoughts)
Clendenning, Olsen, McNeil, Beach, + 2013 CBH 1st
for
Skjei, Darroll Powe, Boyle, Peter Ceresnak, Brandon Mashinter, and 2013 Ranger 2nd and 3rd.

Analysis
Chicago has enough to get by this year. Skjei (probably better skater) is comparable to Clendenning (better developed overall) Powe is listed as a C but plays W, has speed, and upgrade as to available now vs. McNeil, the comparable; Boyle to Olsen discussed, Mashinter >> Beach. Get 2 picks in deep draft for 1 higher pick. Ceresnak added for upcoming D depth.

Some upside to bottom 6, does not diminish upper 6 or current Ds; some reduction of depth as to immediately available D, offset once Skjei advances. Loss of a first against other plusses and 2 picks.

Rangers get a righty D sooner than later plus Olsen for now.
McNeil competes w/Lindberg for 4C, Yogan in the mix.
Beach is a gamble, see what if anything he has left.
Obtain a late 1st (lose 2 lesser picks).

presently:
Gaborik Richards Nash
Hagelin Stepan Callahan
Pyatt Miller Haley
Bickel/Beach Halpern Asham

As soon as he gets enough development time, Kreider returns, Haley eventually supplants Asham. Again McNeil , Lindberg, Yogan

Staal Girardi
McD Stralman
MDZ Clendenning

Gilroy
Olsen
McIlrath
Hamrlik

Deal Eminger for late pick

Depending upon moves that have to be made for cap, Gaborik now and maybe Staal later, there is more depth.

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Old
03-14-2013, 06:53 PM
  #82
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
The universe wouldn't implode if we fit Olsen as #6D, but why jump through these hoops when we can find a better fit somewhere else?
LAK, Canucks, Hurricanes, Habs are all looking for that FO/defensive center on the 3rd line. We can get a better fit somewhere else.

And if we don't like the return, we can always revisit when we know we have a better replacement in Lindberg or someone else.
After all we can also use his sought after skills in the playoffs.

McNeil, Pirri, Clendening we can talk on + on either side to balance it out. If they are not available, no biggie. They have their bottom line, we have ours.

To directly answer your query, I would rather grab the talent and depth increase of Olsen + than have Boyle for the playoffs.

This team needs more pieces. We are very talented and very good, but we need to get a lot better. Gotta add and subtract for that, not stand pat.

I have always gone by the best deal. Timing is a factor.
Last year Olsen was not expendable; this year, with CBH d corp on full tilt, he is, and to a lesser extent Clendenning also. Boyle is obviously more valuable to them now in a playoff run than he is next year.

Whether Boyle is more valuable to the Hawks or to another team is a fair ?, but I don't see a better deal on the table than Olsen and a 4th. And yes, ideally in a heartbeat if Olsen was righty. But that not being so, take the best deal, add depth and move on a righty when one becomes available.

Or get super creative, think outside the box, and come up with my prior post.

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